[quote]orion wrote:
Ya, if you only could!
Alas you cant so I am happy to provide a mirror.
[/quote]
Perhaps they failed to be introspective.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
orion wrote:
valiant knight wrote:
orion wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Why not? It’s a house of worship. If they’re keeping guns in there, that’s one thing, but from what I can tell it’s just a house of worship. So it’s completely comparable to a church.
Irish,
What evidence would you like us to provide that this is not the case? We’re asserting that mosques are, in fact, places where jihad is planned and the original purpose of the mosque was military in nature. You’re asserting that it is “just a place of worship.” Of course, your statement is based on the assumption that Islam is a religion like any other and doesn’t teach “warfare for the spread of religion” per the 'Umdat al-Salik citing Surahs 9:5 and 9:29 and several ahadith.
I guess what I’m asking is, “What’ll it take for you to change your mind?” Help us help you. Clearly, a lot of people, including Muslims like Ergodan, do not see thing the same way as you.
First, I don’t want to hear that it’s what they were “orginally” used for. Prove that mosques are used for that now, consistently enough to ban them. If that’s the case, they should ban basements, bars, or any meeting place where violence could be planned. Which is everywhere.
The mosque itself is not the problem, it’s the psychos committing crimes. That’s like saying Catholic Churches should be banned in Ireland because the IRA plots from them- it’s a logic failure that puts the crime on the building instead of the terrorist.
But banning buildings is so easy!
Dealing with people who deperately want to kill you requires some introspection, an idea why they hate you so much, wether some of their criticism are actually accurate and so on.
Hellz no, let us just demolish something.
Their religion calls for world domination, that is reason enough. (And even if it didn’t, there’s merit to thinking about preserving the indigenous culture. Especially when it seems far superior. Anyway, this importation is all a ploy by leftist wanna bes dreaming of creating some sort of imperialist super state they can lord over)
Why not just roll over and convert? Well, Islam is incompatible with western civilization and science. There will be a dark age. And I say this as someone who’d make an enthusiastic jihadi
I’m sure there are plenty of nice muslims. Those who will not stand up to Islam will simply become the nice muslims of the future.
Do you really take religion at its face value?
If you did that every religious person was insane.
No, they ignore some passages while upholding others until it fits like a glove.
I wholeheartedly believe that Arabs are just as capable of BS themselves as Americans and Europeans and most especially myself.
Fixed.
[/quote]
Probably, but you may have noticed that I am a libertarian.
I do not insist that my subjective interpretation of reality should be the only valid one by law.
Libertarianism is the ideology of those who have understood that they, like everyone else, are full of shit and that everybody should be allowed to be miserable in his own special snowflake way.
We are all perfectly able to fuck up ourselves, no need to drag the state into this.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
orion wrote:
But banning buildings is so easy!
Dealing with people who deperately want to kill you requires some introspection, an idea why they hate you so much, wether some of their criticism are actually accurate and so on.
Hellz no, let us just demolish something.
At the end of the day, you have to be willing to accept the fact that people may hate you just because you don’t believe the same things they do and don’t worship their god.
Ockham’s razor is helpful here. If there are 2 competing explanations for a phenomenon, both explain the phenomenon fully, and one is more complex than the other, then the simplest one is the most likely. In the case of Islam, you can believe that all of their violence is because Islam has a steady stream of valid grievances against non-Muslims that require warfare and slaughter of infidels.
Or you can believe that they hate you for the same reason Muhammad and his original band hated non-Muslims.
Which fits Ockham’s razor?
Introspection is good, if it’s done with a clear head. Yours is clearly not clear.
Ah, nonsense.
Those who benefit from war will use whatever is fashionable to get war.
Allah, freedom and democracy, class warfare, terrorism, you name it.
They only use what works in a specific culture and they have been far more succesful in the US than in the Middle East.
So please do not preach on how THEIR ideology is hell bent on killing you, whereas YOUR ideology has already killed millions of them.
You see the splinter in the eye of the neighbor and do not care for the beam in yours.
Wrong. And I have evidence to the contrary. In fact, I’ve been calling for us to pull out of everywhere for quite awhile on this forum. You just need to make up my position so that your worldview doesn’t come crashing down.
Please read my “Jihad in the Phillipines” thread. There are a ton of data points outside your “Great Satan/Lesser Satan” framework. If only you were willing to see them.
[/quote]
Research is for pussies!
Oh well…
It’s not about the square-inches of prayer facilities, it’s about a symbol of worship/terrorism, depending on who you ask.
In today’s Europe, there seems to be a competition of who can build the most megalo-mosques. London, Köln, Köpenhamn,Marseille, Berlin and to my greatest fear, Danish Ã?rhus are all building mosques that are bigger than the majority of Middle-Eastern mosques.
Dhimmis always need to have their masters symbol in front of their eyes, right Lixy?
Koln,Copenhagen,Arhus. Sorry about the weird symbols.
[quote]lixy wrote:
borrek wrote:
One would think that if a supposed small “unapproved” minority of fanatics were threatening the freedom of the group as a whole, that group would reign in the offenders.
Well, the mosque in Geneva is regularly vandalized by a “minority of fanatics”.
The response of “the group as a whole”? Alienate the Muslim community by organizing a referendum banning minarets.[/quote]
Be silent, Muslim apologist.
Actually, the referendum is even more retarded that those cretins voluntarily patrolling the US/Mexico border.
Why are those Muslims in Switzerland? I don’t recall an invasion by Arab tribesmen on Zurich. The reason is simple - economic necessity.
Third Reich, which arguably had the most strict racial/ethnic policies in history, had more than 7 million foreign workers (Poles, Czechs, Italians…) in Germany proper in 1944. For example, this prompted hysterical legislation attempting to prevent German women “fraternizing” with Polish workers.
Even such a regime fanatically committed to the idea of racial purity had to accept the harsh truth - if you want to be an economic powerhouse, you need immigrants. Or you can settle for ethnically clean pastoral economy.
Even the German post-war construction boom was made possible, among other things, by hundreds of thousands Turkish and Bosnian “guest workers” working mainly in construction from the late 50ies onwards. My paternal grandfather worked in a German mine in 1955, only ten years after his father was shipped to Germany as a forced laborer.
Why are there lines of cars waiting each day to enter Israel from the West Bank? Thousands of suicide bombers? Nope. In an ironic twist, even illegal Jewish settlements are built by Palestinian laborers.
What about thousands of blacks commuting from their Bantustans in apartheid South Africa each day to work?
What’s happens when you remove the lowly paid labour was very nicely illustrated in South Africa when a group of die-hard Afrikaners in early 1990ies decided to form an all-white settlement, named Orania. The first stumbling block came when they realized some of THEM will have to sweep the streets.
Let’s face it, US of A was built on a supply of cheap immigrant labor. Whether they were intendured servants from them slums of London, African slaves, Irish immigrants, Mexican fruit pickers or Guatemalan nannies…
[quote]loppar wrote:
Actually, the referendum is even more retarded that those cretins voluntarily patrolling the US/Mexico border.
Why are those Muslims in Switzerland? I don’t recall an invasion by Arab tribesmen on Zurich. The reason is simple - economic necessity.
Third Reich, which arguably had the most strict racial/ethnic policies in history, had more than 7 million foreign workers (Poles, Czechs, Italians…) in Germany proper in 1944. For example, this prompted hysterical legislation attempting to prevent German women “fraternizing” with Polish workers.
Even such a regime fanatically committed to the idea of racial purity had to accept the harsh truth - if you want to be an economic powerhouse, you need immigrants. Or you can settle for ethnically clean pastoral economy.
Even the German post-war construction boom was made possible, among other things, by hundreds of thousands Turkish and Bosnian “guest workers” working mainly in construction from the late 50ies onwards. My paternal grandfather worked in a German mine in 1955, only ten years after his father was shipped to Germany as a forced laborer.
Why are there lines of cars waiting each day to enter Israel from the West Bank? Thousands of suicide bombers? Nope. In an ironic twist, even illegal Jewish settlements are built by Palestinian laborers.
What about thousands of blacks commuting from their Bantustans in apartheid South Africa each day to work?
What’s happens when you remove the lowly paid labour was very nicely illustrated in South Africa when a group of die-hard Afrikaners in early 1990ies decided to form an all-white settlement, named Orania. The first stumbling block came when they realized some of THEM will have to sweep the streets.
Let’s face it, US of A was built on a supply of cheap immigrant labor. Whether they were intendured servants from them slums of London, African slaves, Irish immigrants, Mexican fruit pickers or Guatemalan nannies…[/quote]
I vote for Guatemalan nannies…HOT! Or A Redheaded Irish Immigrant, I love bangers and mash.
[quote]loppar wrote:
Why are those Muslims in Switzerland? I don’t recall an invasion by Arab tribesmen on Zurich. The reason is simple - economic necessity.
Why are there lines of cars waiting each day to enter Israel from the West Bank? Thousands of suicide bombers? Nope. In an ironic twist, even illegal Jewish settlements are built by Palestinian laborers.
[/quote]
You saw this with your own eyes? Pallywood. Yeah. Just google pallywood. Settlements are built by the Israelis.
Back to the topic. You said that the muslims are there because of economic necessity. How come they are the only group to turn their “economic refugee” status into a “impose your religion on the host country and refuse democracy” blitzkrieg?
[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
Back to the topic. You said that the muslims are there because of economic necessity. How come they are the only group to turn their “economic refugee” status into a “impose your religion on the host country and refuse democracy” blitzkrieg?
[/quote]
You’re completely missing the point. I’m not discussing “goodness” of Muslims, I’m merely saying it’s illusionary to expect that Western countries can live without economic migrants.
Political and sociological factors (high birthrate and low standard of living) caused certain countries to become prime exporters of immigrants. Guess what, most of those fucked up countries are Muslim.
For example, why did so many immigrants to France come from Algeria?
- Algeria was economically and politically fucked up since gaining independence from France
- There was (is) an availability of young men (high birthrate)
- France is close
- Algeria is in the Francophone sphere.
- And most importantly, there was an abundance of menial jobs in France. And cleaning streets or moving garbage is better than sitting on your ass in an Algiers slum.
What happened with second and third generation immigrants is also pretty straightforward - ghettoisation. The first generation was afraid that their descendants will lose their sense of national / religious identity and therefore turbocharged their kids. Add poor education levels and you’ve got yourself a dangerous mixture.
I spent 7 years living in the States as a kid. My relatives there (who were all born in New Jersey) bitched about “living among fat Americans” and venerated a 50 year old distorted vision of “The Old Country”.
Now, if their parents were were born 100 miles to the east, they would have been Muslim instead of Catholic and they would have had a codified, potentially militant and more strictly religious cultural heritage to fall back on.
As far as Israel is concerned, I concede I don’t know how illegal settlements in the West Bank are built, but in Jerusalem I’ve seen with my own eyes that they’re built by Palestinian laborers, much as most of the other construction work.
[quote]loppar wrote:
archiewhittaker wrote:
Back to the topic. You said that the muslims are there because of economic necessity. How come they are the only group to turn their “economic refugee” status into a “impose your religion on the host country and refuse democracy” blitzkrieg?
You’re completely missing the point. I’m not discussing “goodness” of Muslims, I’m merely saying it’s illusionary to expect that Western countries can live without economic migrants.
Political and sociological factors (high birthrate and low standard of living) caused certain countries to become prime exporters of immigrants. Guess what, most of those fucked up countries are Muslim.
For example, why did so many immigrants to France come from Algeria?
- Algeria was economically and politically fucked up since gaining independence from France
- There was (is) an availability of young men (high birthrate)
- France is close
- Algeria is in the Francophone sphere.
- And most importantly, there was an abundance of menial jobs in France. And cleaning streets or moving garbage is better than sitting on your ass in an Algiers slum.
What happened with second and third generation immigrants is also pretty straightforward - ghettoisation. The first generation was afraid that their descendants will lose their sense of national / religious identity and therefore turbocharged their kids. Add poor education levels and you’ve got yourself a dangerous mixture.
I spent 7 years living in the States as a kid. My relatives there (who were all born in New Jersey) bitched about “living among fat Americans” and venerated a 50 year old distorted vision of “The Old Country”.
Now, if their parents were were born 100 miles to the east, they would have been Muslim instead of Catholic and they would have had a codified, potentially militant and more strictly religious cultural heritage to fall back on.
As far as Israel is concerned, I concede I don’t know how illegal settlements in the West Bank are built, but in Jerusalem I’ve seen with my own eyes that they’re built by Palestinian laborers, much as most of the other construction work.[/quote]
I see what you’re saying, but your New Jersey relatives did NOT expand their Catholicism to the extent that other people were threatened.
Switzerland would be just fine without Muslims using up taxpayers resources.
It’s not like illegals here, who “do the work the Americans won’t”. Most Muslims in Switzerland are new, and they don’t work, just like in their home country. (88.3% as of 2000) Muslims in Switzerland are not Swiss citizens, Islam in Switzerland - Wikipedia
[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
It’s not like illegals here, who “do the work the Americans won’t”. Most Muslims in Switzerland are new, and they don’t work, just like in their home country. (88.3% as of 2000) Muslims in Switzerland are not Swiss citizens, Islam in Switzerland - Wikipedia [/quote]
Sure! And 93.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
[quote]lixy wrote:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaHHH!!!
[quote]lixy wrote:
archiewhittaker wrote:
It’s not like illegals here, who “do the work the Americans won’t”. Most Muslims in Switzerland are new, and they don’t work, just like in their home country. (88.3% as of 2000) Muslims in Switzerland are not Swiss citizens, Islam in Switzerland - Wikipedia
Sure! And 93.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.[/quote]
Haha! You quoted Wikipedia, I quoted Wikipedia.
We’re both liars.
Let’s repent! Come to church with me.
[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
lixy wrote:
archiewhittaker wrote:
It’s not like illegals here, who “do the work the Americans won’t”. Most Muslims in Switzerland are new, and they don’t work, just like in their home country. (88.3% as of 2000) Muslims in Switzerland are not Swiss citizens, Islam in Switzerland - Wikipedia
Sure! And 93.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Haha! You quoted Wikipedia, I quoted Wikipedia.
We’re both liars.
Let’s repent! Come to church with me. [/quote]
No, you dumbass! I quoted a wikipedia article on a point that is extremely well referenced. Namely, that Palestinians work to build settlements. Israel’s Supreme Court has a ton of documents on that very matter. You quoted a wikipedia article that screams Point Of Vue, and whose only reference to the quoted statistic is a dead link some shady site.
Now, about that repentance and church visit, I would be happy to accompany you to any of the numerous and quite ostentatious churches in Morocco (the number of which outweighs the number of minarets in Switzerland).
P.S: What do you do for a living to feel so threatened by immigrants? Do you sweep streets?
Churches in Switzerland (both Catholic and Protestant) vociferously condemned the result of the vote.
I remember outrage at the hanging of a 16 yr old ‘slut,’ by the Iranian regime, being met with with a “when in Rome, do as the Romans do.” While I’m not comfortable with the precedent this move could establish, or the potential to hide a demographic explosion, I think one of us might be a bit cornered by past statements.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I remember outrage at the hanging of a 16 yr old ‘slut,’ by the Iranian regime, being met with with a “when in Rome, do as the Romans do.” While I’m not comfortable with the precedent this move could establish, or the potential to hide a demographic explosion, I think one of us might be a bit cornered by past statements. [/quote]
Hey, I’m not against the referendum itself or its result. I don’t see it as much of a violation of freedom of religion. Minarets are a gimmick that have outlived their usefulness and have zero effect on the way a Muslim can or can’t practice his/her religion.
But I will condemn the motion as xenophobic/Islamophobic (because I know the people who pushed for this issue). Just as I did condemn the hanging of that girl and the system that permitted it.
The “potential to hide a demographic explosion” angle is something I haven’t heard before. Or maybe something similar that involved yellow stars. Seriously, kudos for coming up with that one. It’s really tight. Reminds me of Le Pen’s party in France. Back in the day, when a poll came out about “non-ethnic” (that’s the PC term for dark) French citizens’ higher unemployment rate, the FN screamed about all the welfare money they’re going to drain the state of. And when that rate went up, they screamed about the evil foreigners “stealing” their jobs.
Read the OP’s post, and see how blaming the victim is creeping up. Not a single word from the subsequent posters on that.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Churches in Switzerland (both Catholic and Protestant) vociferously condemned the result of the vote.
What right do they have to involve themselves in the voting patterns of sovereign peoples, and why does their opinion matter?
BTW, since you’re obviously going to keep participating on this thread, when are you and Yusef going to get around answering my questions, or are you just going to keep up with the whiny slink-around act?