You need to differentiate PK behavior from content.
To easily compare the PK profiles one needs to make sure that the same amount of active pharmaceutical ingredient (ie testosterone released from the ester) is administered. That’s why they compared a 194 mg enant to a 200 mg cyp. The ester moiety in the T enant is a little ‚smaller‘ than the one from cyp.
Content wise you correctly commented that there is a small difference. To administrier the same dose of T one needs to adjust the dose of cyp to enant. That’s again the 194 mg enant to 200 mg cyp.
Anyhow, PK is independent of the dose, whereas PD and clinical efficacy is not.
They do? I know this is the case with propionate, but never heard this to be the case with enanthate.
Same with nandrolone phenylpropinoate vs nandrolone decanoate… Personally, I don’t buy it… I believe it’s broscience
Like people saying 200mg tren A is more effective than 300mg tren E… no it isn’t, the 300mg has more base hormone… you’re getting more… the cavg would be very similar from 250 tren A vs 300mg tren E… that being said, tren is horrific for generalised health… I’ll never use it… don’t use trenbolone…
Its both doctors and bodybuilders and even other TRT users from @systemlord that claim enanthate aromatizes less than cypionate. I cannot understand how would that work, but it doesnt mean it is not true.
Except it goes entirely against the notion of science, pharmacokinetics of the compounds. All the esters do is modify the rate of release… to say “the esters modify the properties of the hormone itself, the metabolites it coverts to” is BS in my opinion
I’ll ask @johann77 to discredit or further substantiate my claim here as he has the credentials relevant
Also in before “but a doctor say this”… many doctors say things, I can probably go find a doctor to script me Xanax, doesn’t mean its the right thing for me. What matters is when a large body of medical professionals all together agree on a particular ideology. With relatively underground medicine such as TRT things may be different, however we still have a group of doctors gathering together giving off similar advice, we also have a large degree of research stipulating the (acute) benefits of TRT, with chronic use the outcomes aren’t well known… but given many bodybuilders from the golden era are still alright (and some are dead, particularly the ones who went to excess like Mike Mentzer… supposedly using like 2g deca with heavy amphetamine abuse etc over long stretches of time) I’d stipulate TRT is probably fine for the majority.
To substantiate a claim such as “cypionoate aromatises/induces more water retention than enanthate”… the exact same drug simply attached to a different ester both of which share almost identical rates of release… the difference being one carbon atom… give me a break… no way, it’s purely placebo in my opinion.
Lots of fallacies/broscience have existed within the bodybuilding world for decades, without adequate literature preconceived notion based on presumption and/or limited anecdotal experience becomes fact. Many bodybuilders also touted the notion “oxandrolone isn’t suppressive to the HTPA”, data later came out showing T production is almost cut in half from a mere 15mg daily after three days continual use
I cannot appreciate any difference. When the discussion of cypionate v. enanthate takes place I do not think I have ever heard anyone who tried both and preferred cypionate. Most note zero difference, but there are a few that swear enanthate is much better, for whatever reason.
At times in the past, enanthate was more difficult to get. Price was higher. Hard to find, cost more, must be better, right? I wonder if this phenomena could be behind the thought that enanthate is better?
One thing that should be discussed is concentration too. Enanthate at 200 mg /ml is released faster then cypionate 100 mg/ ml. Maybe not faster but more concentrate. If the oil dissolved at the same rate. I love enanthate but if I were to look at paper work only cypionate is a good performer just in numbers
(Based on chart posted in previous post, 200 mg cyp = 194 mg Enanthate is exactly 70 mg cyp = 67 mg enanthate)
70 mg every 4 days CYP
Trough TT 926 FT 23.2 E2 72.5 !!!
66 mg every 4 days ENANTHATE
Trough TT 739 FT 18.2 E2 45.2
Yes enanthate was a few mg less but taking into account that enanthate has more test in its ester then cyp, the difference is tiny. On Cyp my estrogen was almost double.
Needles to say on cyp I felt zero zilch nothing. Like injecting water. Hell not even side effects from the high estrogen.
I think when there is a half-life difference and a mass difference, however small, there has to be a difference in people who are different. It translates into feeling different and is undeniable.
When you have people claiming one thing and studies showing something else, you know we are missing something, a variable we are not according for.