Survey of Doctors; They Don't Know Sh*t

[quote]Meni69 wrote:
where are macronutrient ratios in the the survey?

Doctors now just care about prescribing pills, they don’t CURE you, they keep you alive so they can bill you.
now go to Church[/quote]

It was a just a general statement regarding nutrition.

Truth is, most people don’t give a fuck about their nutrition, they want pills to fix them and will even go as far as to be offended when doctors suggest they alter their eating habits (people suck).

People want quick fixes and doctors do what they can with medication to try to prevent Fatty McShithead from stroking out on the shitter.

Hell, even medication compliance is an uphill battle in a lot of patients.

[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
to try to prevent Fatty McShithead from stroking out on the shitter.

[/quote]

Lol at Fatty McShithead…

who cares about this subject, Pain Clinics prescribing Test!!! lets all go to Pompano, get our test then hit the booby trap

[quote]Meni69 wrote:
who cares about this subject[/quote]

word

he who cares least, wins.

Just another reason why I find it hard to trust a doctor’s opinion. Nine years ago, I had doctors tell me that I was not allowed to do any rigorous weight training or exercise ever again - particularly squats, deadlifts, or anything high impact due to a stress fracture in the femoral neck of my left hip (no surgery done, healed on it’s own). They were all worried about me re-injuring it and said that I would not be able to lead an active life-style. Mobility without pain was also an issue. This of course led me to getting fat and finally when I hit 30 (two years ago) I got tired of being fat, did some research on my own and decided to make some changes - with or without the doctor’s approval. That is when I started training with kettlebells and haven’t looked back since. I have zero pain, I am a lot stronger, and I can lead the exact life the doctors said I couldn’t have. Now all I am doing is fine tuning the workouts to get bigger in muscle. To be honest, the only doctor who had faith in me getting stronger and being able to do heavy lifting and having an active life-style was a chiropractor.

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

I just think it’s irresponsible to position yourself as an authority on medical matters when you’re clearly not. I mean, you flat-out said that people should listen to you over a doctor. And forgive me if I’m mistaken, but don’t you run a porn business for a living? And hey - I love porn, god bless ya for providing it, but unless you also hold an advanced medical degree on the side, I don’t think you should convince people to listen to you over a doctor. I totally agree that some doctors are idiots, but to paint the entire medical profession in a bad light because of a few rotten apples doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense… [/quote]

As a soon to be nutritionist, isn’t this exactly what you would be doing? Maybe you don’t explicitly say you know more than a doctor to your clients, but I’m sure you would steer them in the opposite direction if their doctor had advised them to eat a low fat, low calorie “diet” in order to improve lipids?

If you want to see how bad the medical profession in the US has become, just take a trip on over to the TRT section of this website. Pretty good thread called “Stupid Things Doctors Do and Say”. It seems to be systemic.

[quote]angus_beef wrote:

[quote]Meni69 wrote:
a few bad apples? dud over 90% got the 2nd question wrong
9 out of 10.
[/quote]

You’re assuming because someone is a “doctor” they know everything about the body. Obviously they know enough to become a cardiologist. You want nutrition advice go to a freaking nutritionist. You want a boob job go to a plastic surgeon.

Why are these two questions the benchmark on a doctors intelligence? If i ever need to have open heart surgery i will make sure i find out if the cardiologist knows about canola oil. Who cares about credentials and the hundreds of successful surgeries that have been conducted. If the cardiologist doesn’t know about canola oil i’m hauling ass.
[/quote]

The problem is that these cardiologists are guilty of dishing out poor nutrition advice under the guise that they are DOCTORS…and since they went to school longer for everyone else, most people think they are infallible and trust everything they say.

THe issue is not just that the doctors don’t know dick about nutrition, it is that their egos are so big they are not capable of admitting they don’t know dick about it and continue to offer this advice to their patients. Most people don’t know anything other than what their doctor tells them in regards to their health, and you see nothing wrong with this?

[quote]Meni69 wrote:
Background
To assess the nutrition knowledge of physicians on the basic effects of diet on blood lipids and lipoproteins.
Methods

Anonymous mailed dietary knowledge surveys to 6000 randomly selected physicians in the United States licensed in either Internal Medicine or Cardiology.

Results
Response rate: 16% (n = 639).

Half of the physicians did not know that canola oil and 26% did not know olive oil were good sources of monounsaturated fat.

Ninety-three percent (84% of cardiologists vs. 96% of internists; p < 0.001) did not know that a low-fat diet, in general, would increase blood triglycerides.

Approximately three-quarters (70% of cardiologists vs. 77% of internists; p < 0.01) did not know a low-fat diet would decrease HDL-c and almost half (45%) thought that a low-fat diet would not change HDL-c.

Conclusions
If physicians are to implement dietary and cholesterol management guidelines, they will likely need to become more knowledgeable about nutrition.[/quote]

Yeah. Ok. But what did the dentists among them have to say?

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
1.Take your car in for an oil change and ask the mechanic about the obscure and particular properties of the metals used in the manufacture of the engine block.

  1. When he can’t answer announce to the world that he doesn’t know shit and shouldn’t be trusted.

4.Profit!
[/quote]

Your post was obviously made in jest, but do people really not think that DIET is a factor in HEART HEALTH, hence involving the field of CARDIOLOGY?

Sure, diet isn’t quite as exciting as heart surgeries and bypasses and other fun medical terminology, but it is part of the puzzle and as such the cardiologist should be up to speed on at least the basics. If not, then they should completely disassociate diet from the profession and not offer nutrition advice.

[quote]Meni69 wrote:
My point is many doctors give bad advice on nutrition to patients.

this is alarming

Ninety-three percent (84% of cardiologists vs. 96% of internists; p < 0.001) did not know that a low-fat diet, in general, would increase blood triglycerides. [/quote]

I disagree here (but agree in spirit).

I don’t think most doctors give anyone any nutritional advice at all, beyond some of the oft repeated, “lose weight, cut fat” mantra. I think most doctors just push statins and medication - it’s the western medicine paradigm.

I guess noone cares to discuss any of the points I brought up about why cardiologists shouldn’t be giving nutirtion advice, or should learn more about it. Or if dieticiatins should be steering clients against their doctor’s advice…

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I guess noone cares to discuss any of the points I brought up about why cardiologists shouldn’t be giving nutirtion advice, or should learn more about it. Or if dieticiatins should be steering clients against their doctor’s advice…

[/quote]

you realize what a lot of doctors tell their patients is what clinical dietitians tell them to say, right?

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I guess noone cares to discuss any of the points I brought up about why cardiologists shouldn’t be giving nutirtion advice, or should learn more about it. Or if dieticiatins should be steering clients against their doctor’s advice…

[/quote]

No sir - I do not.

Because I really don’t have the energy to explain the entirety of the dietetics profession to you, since your previous statement indicates that you know absolutely nothing about what a clinical RD does.

Sorry - 30 mins fasted cardio at 7 am, hit chest this afternoon and the rest of my day is spent chasing a 3 year old around. I’m just too damned tired…lol… ; )

I’ll say this - even if I did as you suggested, that would be advice to a client from a board certified allied health professional, not a landscaper playing endocrinologist over the Internet - which was my initial point. : )

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I guess noone cares to discuss any of the points I brought up about why cardiologists shouldn’t be giving nutirtion advice, or should learn more about it. Or if dieticiatins should be steering clients against their doctor’s advice…

[/quote]

you realize what a lot of doctors tell their patients is what clinical dietitians tell them to say, right?[/quote]

Source please? What makes you say that?

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I guess noone cares to discuss any of the points I brought up about why cardiologists shouldn’t be giving nutirtion advice, or should learn more about it. Or if dieticiatins should be steering clients against their doctor’s advice…

[/quote]

No sir - I do not.

Because I really don’t have the energy to explain the entirety of the dietetics profession to you, since your previous statement indicates that you know absolutely nothing about what a clinical RD does.

Sorry - 30 mins fasted cardio at 7 am, hit chest this afternoon and the rest of my day is spent chasing a 3 year old around. I’m just too damned tired…lol… ; )

I’ll say this - even if I did as you suggested, that would be advice to a client from a board certified allied health professional, not a landscaper playing endocrinologist over the Internet - which was my initial point. : ) [/quote]

I know a bit, but not a lot which is why I asked the question…fair enough though

Man, I clearly need to get back to writing more ‘What Your Doctor Doesn’t Know’ articles.

I’m offended, annoyed, and disgusted at all the apologists who say that we shouldn’t expect docs to know about nutrition and exercise. In a sense, you’re right. After all, I shouldn’t know as much about nutrition as a nutritionist, I shouldn’t know as much about musculoskeletal injury assessment and treatment as a physical therapist, nor should I be able to handle speech, language, and swallowing disorders as well as a speech therapist. But I’m pretty sure I should know the basics. And anyone who thinks their doc shouldn’t clearly doesn’t want to be treated optimally.

The doc’s job isn’t just to treat you when you get sick, it’s also to keep you healthy. How the hell are we supposed to do this if we don’t know the science of being healthy? If we don’t have at least a solid grounding in functional anatomy, exercise physiology, and nutrition? Moreover, how are we supposed to help you recover from illness without knowing that. ‘Oh, I’ll just do your shoulder repair surgery, but I don’t know the first thing about the exercises you’ll need to do to get back where you want to be.’ ‘Oh, I don’t know how to assess your lifestyle to help you prevent a heart attack or stroke, here’s a statin and let’s hope for the best!’

What a bunch of garbage. Especially when the literature shows that for almost any condition we can think of, from osteoarthritis to nerve damage to heart attacks to strokes to depression and anxiety (yes, depression and anxiety), it’s the lifestyle stuff that has the biggest, most efficient effect both in prevention and in treatment/recovery?

Look, the reason our education is so freaking broad (despite being a psychiatry resident, I’ve nonetheless ran codes, treated asthma, sepsis, worked up cancer, cracked chests, done significant portions of surgeries, and stitched up lacs) is because we’re supposed to at least have a handle on whatever walks through our door. And some people think we need know nothing about nutrition, exercise, and functional anatomy? When in many cases it’s the most important area to pay attention to? This is me laughing.

I spent much of the first two years of my med school education learning all sorts of garbage that just isn’t that relevant to practice. Learning stupid anatomical points of interest that dead guys who never saw living patients wrote about, but which I’ve never needed as a real-life doc treating real life people. On the other hand, everything about functional anatomy and MSK diagnosis I’ve had to teach myself. Learning about an irrelevant and esoteric pathway for a whole week when ‘too much uric acid is bad’ would have sufficed, and had to memorize the structure and synthetic/degradation pathways of all the amino acids, but not actually why they matter. I’ve spent the last 4 watching docs run around using meds like crazy but failing to understand and implement the behavioral/exercise/nutrition changes in their patients that would have obviated the need for the mad dashes, the crying families, and tons of money crapped down the toilet.

I’ve had orthopods tell me that the reason my bench was down over 100lbs was clearly because I was getting older…at 25. I had another doc tell me that at 203lbs (BMI of 30), I had substantially increased my risk of diabetes (I had a six pack). I had another doc tell me I needed a low-fat/high carb diet since I have a very very strong family history of diabetes. And this is leaving out the travesty that has been my journey through nerve and spine damage–and the fact that every bit of progress I’ve made has been by doing exactly what the docs told me not to do.

Trust me, yeah we are the most broadly-educated people in all of healthcare. And we have to know a crapload. But there is room for the stuff that matters. And plenty of stuff that doesn’t matter we could get rid of in our education.

Preach it brother!!!

[quote]Meni69 wrote:
My point is many doctors give bad advice on nutrition to patients.

this is alarming

Ninety-three percent (84% of cardiologists vs. 96% of internists; p < 0.001) did not know that a low-fat diet, in general, would increase blood triglycerides. [/quote]

Sky’s point is that far more idiots on the internet give bad advice than there are doctors giving bad advice.

“Don’t listen to your doctor, here, take MY word for it.” is alarming.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

I just think it’s irresponsible to position yourself as an authority on medical matters when you’re clearly not. I mean, you flat-out said that people should listen to you over a doctor. And forgive me if I’m mistaken, but don’t you run a porn business for a living? And hey - I love porn, god bless ya for providing it, but unless you also hold an advanced medical degree on the side, I don’t think you should convince people to listen to you over a doctor. I totally agree that some doctors are idiots, but to paint the entire medical profession in a bad light because of a few rotten apples doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense… [/quote]

As a soon to be nutritionist, isn’t this exactly what you would be doing? Maybe you don’t explicitly say you know more than a doctor to your clients, but I’m sure you would steer them in the opposite direction if their doctor had advised them to eat a low fat, low calorie “diet” in order to improve lipids?

If you want to see how bad the medical profession in the US has become, just take a trip on over to the TRT section of this website. Pretty good thread called “Stupid Things Doctors Do and Say”. It seems to be systemic. [/quote]

How is a registered, masters degreed, board-certified dietitian not an authority on nutrition and dietary interventions? Last time I checked, that’s a HUGE part of what dietitians are trained to do. Comparing degreed and certified RD’s to random internet posters with no education is a false analogy.

Also, stop using “nutritionist” and “RD” interchangeably. ANYONE can be a “nutritionist”. Becoming an RD is a totally different matter. I can legally call myself a “nutritionist” right now, but if I wanted to legally call myself an RD, it would take several years for me to be able to do so.

I know throwing stones at RD’s is the cool thing to do for some people on this website, but inevitably, these arguments are based off of confusing “nutritionist” with RD’s or some zealous attack on a moderate stance from the far end of the spectrum.

^^I honestly had no idea there was a difference, nor the training that RD’s went through to earn that title…that definitely changes my perspective quite a bit…thanks for taking the time to clear that up…