Roon - Hey, you are now the Tnation math wiz! LOL! Thanks for the correction. I have enough of a stats background to know better.
And your points about peopleās recall are well taken.
That link to the Taiwanese study about people making unhealthier food choices if they thought theyād taken vitamins was fascinating, and crazy right?
Here are a couple of things that have been going through my mind today. Iāve been taking a multivitamin since I was a kid.
It seems unlikely that a 110 pound woman and a 250 pound man would need the same vitamin, but thatās often exactly whatās happening. Like a lot of people, I think I assumed that these things couldnāt hurt me. The idea that they might actually hasten my demise is disconcerting. Hipps4runnin mentioned that some people are going to have an adverse reaction to things that are benign or even beneficial to others. We are all going to metabolize these things differently. Iād assume things are going to need to get a lot more individualized at some point.
I recall reading a few years ago about how Vitamin E shows promise in staving off dementia so I started supplementing Vitamin E, based mostly on that research. Now we know that Vitamin E supplementation seems to raise the risk of prostate cancer. So, maybe you have to decide if youād rather get dementia or prostate cancer. Since I donāt have a prostate, this isnāt a big dilemma for me. Seriously, we often hear how some supplement is helpful for one particular health problem, when it may actually make other things worse.
I think Iām now more befuddled than before. I am thinking about stopping the multivitamin.
I am making more of an effort to fine tune my nutrition, and add in foods which naturally contain vitamins, where I seem to be deficient.
I recall reading a few years ago about how Vitamin E shows promise in staving off dementia so I started supplementing Vitamin E, based mostly on that research. Now we know that Vitamin E supplementation seems to raise the risk of prostate cancer. So, maybe you have to decide if youād rather get dementia or prostate cancer. Since I donāt have a prostate, this isnāt a big dilemma for me. Seriously, we often hear how some supplement is helpful for one particular health problem, when it may actually make other things worse.
I think Iām now more befuddled than before. I am thinking about stopping the multivitamin.
[/quote]
That vit E āstudyā used dl-alpha tocopherol - i.e., the synthetic copy of one of the components of vit E. Real vit E is āmixed tocopherolsā from a natural source.
Multi-vits seem āconvenientā, but some vits/mins compete w/each other, or should be taken at different times of day (b-complex in a.m., calcium in a.m. or afternoon, magnesium before bed, etc.). Also, each should be in itās natural form; all fat-soluble vits are liquid (can be taken in a soft gel-cap), other vits and mins can be capsule or - if food-based - tablet.
re: conspiracy theory. The corporate media gets a TON of ad $ from drug co.'s and other med biz. ZERO deaths caused by vits each year, compared to 100,000+ by Px drugs, but all you see/hear in āmainstreamā media is āoh, vits are so dangerous!ā.
ndiddy - Thanks. I was surprised to see that they didnāt account for the fact that the women taking supplements were much more likely to also be taking synthetic HRT. That alone could be a pretty big confounding factor, Iād think. The WSJ is generally one of the best papers in the country, if not the best IMO so Iām surprised that they didnāt mention that in their article.
Jeffrey - Thanks. I think you are telling me that Iām probably not getting the maximum benefit by loading up on all of them at dinner time, right? Iāll look into timing more. Let me know if you have good article on that. For now Iām taking a B complex, E, D, C, and Fish oil in the evening, and ZMA before bed when I remember (although Iām going to switch to just Mg when my supply runs out - I started the ZMA to try to get more sleep and it didnāt have a marked effect on me).
It seems pretty simple to supplement the vitamins, but Iām less sure about what do do with trace minerals if I eliminate the multivitamin. In the study it looks like they think the most danger is from too much Iron and Copper in some of the multivitamins. Iād think my risk of getting too much of some of the heavy metals might be greater because Iām a small woman.
I might be out of line saying this, and if I am please accept my apology, but you have many women beat when it comes to health, beauty, and secksay, and I mean that all facets of life. Most women I know, would rather be bludgeoned to death by a dull spoon than go workout or eat something considered āhealthy.ā You do this willingly, not forcefully, and that speaks volumes.
If popping a pill did increase your risk of dying by 4% over 20 years, I would argue that assuming you arenāt smoking, doing drugs, or drinking heavily, that is pretty negligible in the grand scheme. Enjoy the sunshine we are having, in the 90ās up here.
Max - Thank you for the encouragement and kind words. I do feel a little embarrassed that I donāt know more about the whole vitamin/ supplement thing. Iāve never given this much thought because Iāve been so fortunate to have really excellent health. I feel like Iām bragging saying this, but I pretty much feel fantastic nearly everyday, and Iām just hardly every sick.
I was able to run every morning for many years without injury, and now that Iām lifting I seem to recover quickly and Iāve been so happy with my progress. No joint problems or pain. I guess part of this comes with me thinking more about fine tuning my nutrition and thinking about eliminating some of the chemicals from my diet. Iām down to one Diet Dr. Pepper per day. Whoot! And yes, I might be over thinking this. I eat tons of vegetables, lean protein, and some fruit everyday. As you mentioned, Iāve never smoked or done drugs, and my drinking days were limited to a couple of years between 17 and 20. By the time it was legal for me to drink, I was pretty much over it. LOL! Anyway, Iām sure thereās a combination of good genetics and lifestyle at work here. I have many friends who seem to do everything right and they arenāt so fortunate with their health. I feel very blessed.
Rather than dying sooner, Iād like to know what they people are dying of and their quality of life as well.
Not saying quantity is not important, and that quality rules all, but that is something that never gets looked at.
Kind of like what they did with the whole statin/cholesterol crap.
X # of people didnāt have heart attacks, BUT they are getting more cancerā¦ Hmm, think Iād rather die quickly from a heart attack than suffer through cancer for years.
I wasnāt trying to make light of your concern Puff, but when you look at the grand scheme of it all, people like us, people like the ones on this site, who actually give a shit about their health, performance, and the way they look, are more the exception than the rule. Tell people to āeat healthyā and you get a befuddled look. Tell people to pop a pill, and you get a āduhā look.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Poorly designed, even poorer controlled, and we are looking at āall-cause mortalityā? This study is less than useless for any usable information.[/quote]
didnāt you know, taking a vitamin increases your risk of being killed in a car accident, apparently.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Poorly designed, even poorer controlled, and we are looking at āall-cause mortalityā? This study is less than useless for any usable information.[/quote]
didnāt you know, taking a vitamin increases your risk of being killed in a car accident, apparently.[/quote]
This is true. the same can be said for brushing your teethā¦seeing as most people who brush their teeth do so before leaving the house, therefore, brushing teeth equals death by car accident.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Poorly designed, even poorer controlled, and we are looking at āall-cause mortalityā? This study is less than useless for any usable information.[/quote]
didnāt you know, taking a vitamin increases your risk of being killed in a car accident, apparently.[/quote]
This is true. the same can be said for brushing your teethā¦seeing as most people who brush their teeth do so before leaving the house, therefore, brushing teeth equals death by car accident.[/quote]
I see what youāre saying. Iāll just brush before bedā¦
[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
Probably because the people who took the vitamin supplements were obese women looking for a magical cure to their fatness, and were going to die sooner anyways.[/quote]
Nope.
This was a study of 39,000 women over 19 years and they āā¦controlled for age, diet, weight , smoking status, and underlying health conditions to isolate the impact of vitamins and mineralsā¦So the results werenāt skewed by the fact that the women who took supplements were more likely to exercise, weight less and have a lower prevalence of diabetes and high blood pressure than women who didnāt take the supplements.ā All of the women in the study were white women.
We know most people arenāt getting their 7-9 servings of fruits and vegetables per day, so youād think that people taking supplements would live longer. Apparently itās not as intuitive as it sounds.
[/quote]Itās my opinion that synthetic nutrients may carry risks not yet understood. Research finds new info regarding vitamin and other nutrient reactions and correlations every week. Synthetics could be missing the boat or fucking up key enzyme processes we donāt know about yet. Did the study control for naturally sourced vs. synthetically derived vitamins? I have read pretty disturbing research on synthetic b vitamins and prostate cancer.
[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
Probably because the people who took the vitamin supplements were obese women looking for a magical cure to their fatness, and were going to die sooner anyways.[/quote]
Nope.
This was a study of 39,000 women over 19 years and they āā¦controlled for age, diet, weight , smoking status, and underlying health conditions to isolate the impact of vitamins and mineralsā¦So the results werenāt skewed by the fact that the women who took supplements were more likely to exercise, weight less and have a lower prevalence of diabetes and high blood pressure than women who didnāt take the supplements.ā All of the women in the study were white women.
We know most people arenāt getting their 7-9 servings of fruits and vegetables per day, so youād think that people taking supplements would live longer. Apparently itās not as intuitive as it sounds.
[/quote]Itās my opinion that synthetic nutrients may carry risks not yet understood. Research finds new info regarding vitamin and other nutrient reactions and correlations every week. Synthetics could be missing the boat or fucking up key enzyme processes we donāt know about yet. Did the study control for naturally sourced vs. synthetically derived vitamins? I have read pretty disturbing research on synthetic b vitamins and prostate cancer.
[/quote]
I am very interested in how you [quote]"ā¦control for age, diet, weight , smoking status, and underlying health conditions to isolate the impact of vitamins and mineralsā¦So the results werenāt skewed [/quote]
How the fuck is that controlled? For decades they ācontrolledā these factors outside of a clinical setting?
[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
Probably because the people who took the vitamin supplements were obese women looking for a magical cure to their fatness, and were going to die sooner anyways.[/quote]
Nope.
This was a study of 39,000 women over 19 years and they āā¦controlled for age, diet, weight , smoking status, and underlying health conditions to isolate the impact of vitamins and mineralsā¦So the results werenāt skewed by the fact that the women who took supplements were more likely to exercise, weight less and have a lower prevalence of diabetes and high blood pressure than women who didnāt take the supplements.ā All of the women in the study were white women.
We know most people arenāt getting their 7-9 servings of fruits and vegetables per day, so youād think that people taking supplements would live longer. Apparently itās not as intuitive as it sounds.
[/quote]Itās my opinion that synthetic nutrients may carry risks not yet understood. Research finds new info regarding vitamin and other nutrient reactions and correlations every week. Synthetics could be missing the boat or fucking up key enzyme processes we donāt know about yet. Did the study control for naturally sourced vs. synthetically derived vitamins? I have read pretty disturbing research on synthetic b vitamins and prostate cancer.
[/quote]
I am very interested in how you [quote]"ā¦control for age, diet, weight , smoking status, and underlying health conditions to isolate the impact of vitamins and mineralsā¦So the results werenāt skewed [/quote]
How the fuck is that controlled? For decades they ācontrolledā these factors outside of a clinical setting?[/quote]
No idea. My guess would be regular check ups and access to medical records. They could have lied about smoking and diet though so its not altogether flawless. Would still like to see a comparison between natural and synthetic vitamins within the existing parameters.
[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
Probably because the people who took the vitamin supplements were obese women looking for a magical cure to their fatness, and were going to die sooner anyways.[/quote]
Nope.
This was a study of 39,000 women over 19 years and they āā¦controlled for age, diet, weight , smoking status, and underlying health conditions to isolate the impact of vitamins and mineralsā¦So the results werenāt skewed by the fact that the women who took supplements were more likely to exercise, weight less and have a lower prevalence of diabetes and high blood pressure than women who didnāt take the supplements.ā All of the women in the study were white women.
We know most people arenāt getting their 7-9 servings of fruits and vegetables per day, so youād think that people taking supplements would live longer. Apparently itās not as intuitive as it sounds.
[/quote]Itās my opinion that synthetic nutrients may carry risks not yet understood. Research finds new info regarding vitamin and other nutrient reactions and correlations every week. Synthetics could be missing the boat or fucking up key enzyme processes we donāt know about yet. Did the study control for naturally sourced vs. synthetically derived vitamins? I have read pretty disturbing research on synthetic b vitamins and prostate cancer.
[/quote]
I am very interested in how you [quote]"ā¦control for age, diet, weight , smoking status, and underlying health conditions to isolate the impact of vitamins and mineralsā¦So the results werenāt skewed [/quote]
How the fuck is that controlled? For decades they ācontrolledā these factors outside of a clinical setting?[/quote]
No idea. My guess would be regular check ups and access to medical records. They could have lied about smoking and diet though so its not altogether flawless. Would still like to see a comparison between natural and synthetic vitamins within the existing parameters.[/quote]
