My opinion, You fucked up your endocrine system.Your endocrine system is in charge of regulating your hormones and when guys in there teens and early tweinties do steroids or strong Pros’ they run the risk of fucking up there endocrine system.
I say run some hcg and proviron.You say you can get clom nolv and hcg but not prov,I doubt that get some proviron and get your endocrine checked out.
Ive been so damn tempted to run a 4 week superdrol cycle for a while now.
Maybe Ill stick to my havoc and hdrol.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
abomber wrote:
14% bf. not that fat, not ripped either. you can see the top 2 abs, thats it.
would 1000iu of hCG for ten days straight be over kill?
Why the fuck do you think I suggested 200iu EOD?
Learn to read.
BBB[/quote]
calm down man. I am very literate. Please let me explain myself before everyone starts freaking out. On two different anabolic forums, I have been advised to do this:
run 1000iu hcg daily for ten days. I am supposed to be on aromasin for 7 days straight before starting hcg due to gyno. when the hcg run is ending, i am to stay on 50mg clomid for 4 weeks straight. I will be on 25mg aromasin the entire time.
thats why I ask because 200iu and 1000iu are obviously two different ends of hcg spectrum…
man, I just want my sex drive back and my gyno gone… i havent been truly horny in TWO years. FUck my life.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
My opinion, You fucked up your endocrine system.Your endocrine system is in charge of regulating your hormones and when guys in there teens and early tweinties do steroids or strong Pros’ they run the risk of fucking up there endocrine system.
I say run some hcg and proviron.You say you can get clom nolv and hcg but not prov,I doubt that get some proviron and get your endocrine checked out.[/quote]
i have been told to find proviron on a few forums now. I have no clue where to get some legit proviron that wont get seized or that will send me to jail (a safer site, i realize nothing is 100% in this game)
[quote]benmoore wrote:
Ive been so damn tempted to run a 4 week superdrol cycle for a while now.
Maybe Ill stick to my havoc and hdrol.[/quote]
after all of my experiences, get real gear if you want to fuck with aas… at least the sides and pct is much more predictable…
[quote]abomber wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Ive been so damn tempted to run a 4 week superdrol cycle for a while now.
Maybe Ill stick to my havoc and hdrol.
after all of my experiences, get real gear if you want to fuck with aas… at least the sides and pct is much more predictable…[/quote]
Run a 4 week cycle of havoc at the age of 21 with a nolva PCT at 40/40/30/20.
Libido was down for a while after… but has picked up royally recently with improved diet, less stress, etc.
[quote]benmoore wrote:
abomber wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Ive been so damn tempted to run a 4 week superdrol cycle for a while now.
Maybe Ill stick to my havoc and hdrol.
after all of my experiences, get real gear if you want to fuck with aas… at least the sides and pct is much more predictable…
Run a 4 week cycle of havoc at the age of 21 with a nolva PCT at 40/40/30/20.
Libido was down for a while after… but has picked up royally recently with improved diet, less stress, etc.[/quote]
the other two boards I am on push clomid hard over nolva shrug maybe i need to give nolva a shot just to see but alot of people are claiming nolva is shit compared to 50mg dosing of clomid
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Proviron is a short-term patchup solution only. It won’t do anything longterm IMO.
Sorry for getting irate. I empathise with your situation and can see where your question came from now.
Truly, I don’t know what is the optimum course for you. And don’t let anyone else convince you that they have all the answers.
All I can tell you is that everyone is different in their response patterns. If I were in your shoes, I would do as I said and inject 200iu of HCG EOD for a while. This too may only be a patchup solution, but I can’t see that aromasin + 1000iu HCG + clomid would be any better at this point, since you have tried clomid etc before.
Good luck with it though.
BBB[/quote]
thank you
maybe the clomid would be more effective with hcg jumpstarting everything… i am an hcg newb i know where to buy legit hcg from but im kinda nervous about the whole thing since ive never injected or used before
T levels are moderate
E is low
Libido is low
gyno
Gyno: Was there any sign of this before the SD use? How did you carry fat before the SD use?
It seems like there is HPTA inhibition and the E levels do not explain this. Breast tissue growth is not explained by the E2 levels. At this point one needs to suspect prolactin.
If we assume a prolactin issue, then there may be a way to fix that. If prolactin is up, we can expect dopamine to be low, and depression, low energy and apathy would be consistent with that.
Elevated prolactin is strongly HPTA repressive, T and libido go down and the mental/mood problems are common.
Trazodone and wellbutrin are anti-depressive drugs that come to mind. Traz is also a very good sleep aid. But the best drug to try is cabergoline. In some cases, 0.5mg/week can displace wellbutrin use and have a better result. A trial of cabergoline may be quite useful and the outcome will be diagnostic either way.
If cabergoline does some good things, then one can then wonder why there is a prolactin/dopamine imbalance. Perhaps one can reset things. A form of depression could be forcing dopamine low, allowing prolactin to increase - locked in. And one needs to consider that there may be a growth on the pituitary that is creating prolactin. A MRI would be the best diagnostic for that.
If you get tested for prolactin and it is elevated, then getting your head scoped would be the best path from there.
Other reasons why T could be low: OTC or Rx drug use [but the mechanism for that would be elevated E2], unusual E metabolites, damage to the pituitary from an blow to the head or whiplash, a tumor of or external pressing on the pituitary. [A tumor in that area can press on the optic nerves and create visual field disturbances. Vision changes must be part of a symptom list.]
Finding a doc that can see through all of this will be difficult at best.
[quote]KSman wrote:
T levels are moderate
E is low
Libido is low
gyno
Gyno: Was there any sign of this before the SD use? How did you carry fat before the SD use?
It seems like there is HPTA inhibition and the E levels do not explain this. Breast tissue growth is not explained by the E2 levels. At this point one needs to suspect prolactin.
If we assume a prolactin issue, then there may be a way to fix that. If prolactin is up, we can expect dopamine to be low, and depression, low energy and apathy would be consistent with that.
Elevated prolactin is strongly HPTA repressive, T and libido go down and the mental/mood problems are common.
Trazodone and wellbutrin are anti-depressive drugs that come to mind. Traz is also a very good sleep aid. But the best drug to try is cabergoline. In some cases, 0.5mg/week can displace wellbutrin use and have a better result. A trial of cabergoline may be quite useful and the outcome will be diagnostic either way.
If cabergoline does some good things, then one can then wonder why there is a prolactin/dopamine imbalance. Perhaps one can reset things. A form of depression could be forcing dopamine low, allowing prolactin to increase - locked in. And one needs to consider that there may be a growth on the pituitary that is creating prolactin. A MRI would be the best diagnostic for that.
If you get tested for prolactin and it is elevated, then getting your head scoped would be the best path from there.
Other reasons why T could be low: OTC or Rx drug use [but the mechanism for that would be elevated E2], unusual E metabolites, damage to the pituitary from an blow to the head or whiplash, a tumor of or external pressing on the pituitary. [A tumor in that area can press on the optic nerves and create visual field disturbances. Vision changes must be part of a symptom list.]
Finding a doc that can see through all of this will be difficult at best.
[/quote]
wow ! whats the deal ksman, where to start where to start brother… oh and i Pmed you about a good endo in houston if you know any…
ok
my prolactin was tested, it was high. like 19 out of 15 max
ZERO gyno before the superdrol. a few months after the superdrol i had itchy tender sore nips, lumps formed, then the itchiness went away and bam gyno. i didnt know any better at the time. i didnt really have any fat previous to the superdrol, i was a small little manorexic. carried 0 chest fat and a little bit in my stomach. i have a slight chub in my stomach area right now but u can see top 2 abs @ 180.
right now I am on pramipexoloe (miraplex) an anti-prolactin drug. i bought it from a research site. i am about to start on .75mg a day dosing split up twice a day. if i ran prami for like 2 months straight, is this a potential permanent fix or should i go get an mri anyways?
how do i go about resetting my prolactin to normal levels?
Prolactin IS your problem then, I don’t know much about miraplex but I know that a lot guys question the quality of the liquid caber/dostinex coming from research sites due to the fact that dostinex breaks down in water.
[quote]bodychemist wrote:
Prolactin IS your problem then, I don’t know much about miraplex but I know that a lot guys question the quality of the liquid caber/dostinex coming from research sites due to the fact that dostinex breaks down in water.[/quote]
i have read that miraplex is much better than caber, better sides too
I don’t know how miraplex compares to caber, but I have heard only good things about caber. I too have heard many cautions to avoid liquid versions and go for the real deal with caber.
Slightly related hijack: What is the consensus of B6 as an antiprolactin agent?
Hey Man go to www.longevitymd.net I have some patients that go there when they want to get there hormone levels boosted or fixed. Most of these guys are over 35. I hate to hear guys your age messed up. These people can help This is a medical fix not a group for bodybuilders, strictly medical. Since your messed up they may be able to help
Peace and good Luck
abomber you keep talking about reading stuff on other threads, the sooner you realize that T-Nation is the end all be all the better off you will be.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
abomber you keep talking about reading stuff on other threads, the sooner you realize that T-Nation is the end all be all the better off you will be.[/quote]
fair enough bro. I like to get a FUCKLOAD of opinions and try to figure out what the general consensus is but ksman sent me a huge long pm breaking everything down for me I was pretty impressed but everyone here for the most part has been very helpful and supportive