Hey Guys,
First post, not sure if Im in the right place; but here goes.
Im 60 developed low testosterone about 14 years ago, really low,
Went on TRT for a couple of years and felt good
A couple of years later my PSA (Prostate tumour marker) numbers started to rise.
Long story short I now have prostate cancer. (which was fueled by the TRT,) My T levels are now at an all time low and I can barely do anything, Zero focus, NO energy, No motivation (Like living life on 10% battery) I sit and gaze out the window killing time
LOL and add depression to the mix…
Whats worse is I am about to start hormone deprivation therapy called ADT, which will destroy my remaining T levels to help shrink the tumours before doing radiation therapy.
(Im pretty sure I truly have ADHD as well and have since a kid)
I live aboard a boat so there is always work that needs to be done, bit I dont have the juice to do it
All that to ask: Would a short acting stimulant that I took in the AM give me enough to help me get thru the day and be a little productive and get off my chair?
I know there are risks of addiction, but if its short acting and wears of during the day, It will have a little time out of my system every day.
Thanks for any thoughts on using stimulants to supplement my low T
Scott
Is it possible to lower your Testosterone dose and add in a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor like Finasteride or Dutasteride? For males not on exogenous testosterone, this is what is typically done. Guys with normal level testosterone. The 5 alpha reductase inhibitors will generally raise testosterone a little bit in these guys, yet their prostates shrink?
Yes, ADHD meds will give you motivation / energy (most meds that is, and the stimulant ones are strong, the non stim ones don’t do much IME). Here in the US, it isn’t very easy to get them though. It seems to take at least 6 months to get a diagnosis (most docs here require it to prescribe). I am in the process of going through getting diagnosed right now.
Thanks for your input. I am no longer on Testosterone, my Dr stopped it because it feeds the prostate cancer. But without it, Im not sure I have any life at all
FYI guys, my understanding is that almost all men have prostate cancer by the time they’re in their 40s, it is just too small and not yet found in most men.
BUT adding more T to your body is like throwing gas on a fire, It feeds the prostate cancer.
If I had known that I would never have started TRT
I am not sold on this. I think more testosterone equals more DHT, but if you use a drug to lower DHT, I don’t think Testosterone has much impact to the prostate.
Something to think about, maybe discuss with your doctor.
The idea that Testosterone itself is largely responsible I think is outdated, and lacks nuance. Yes, higher Testosterone without anything else is going to cause issues (because it converts to DHT).
I am guessing Testosterone itself does have some action on the prostate. It can attach to the androgen receptor after all. But I think it is a very small impact compared to DHT. The evidence for this is that when men take 5 alpha reductase inhibitors (to reduce DHT), their testosterone goes up, but their prostates shrink.
Thanks for your reply.
You seem to know a lot more than I.
All I know is all my cancer Dr’s have said the lower my T is, the more my tumours will shrink prior to other treatments.
“What is ADT therapy for cancer?
Prostate cancer needs testosterone to grow. Reducing how much testosterone your body makes may slow the cancer’s growth or shrink the cancer temporarily. Testosterone is an androgen (male sex hormone), so this treatment is called androgen deprivation therapy (ADT).”
So thats why I was asking about stimulants to help with energy.
Thanks again for your reply
I for sure am not an expert. I think the most knowledgeable guy here for this type of stuff is tareload. I’ll link @tareload, maybe he can help with these questions.
I am just skeptical that they are lowering all androgens, because if Test goes down, DHT goes down, and I think DHT might be the main culprit. Sometimes these types of things are missing nuance (for good reason, it would confuse a lot of people).
The same thing was thought for hair loss at one point. Testosterone was responsible. And it is true that if you lowered testosterone enough, you won’t lose hair from androgenic alopecia. But you could also just lower DHT and get the same effect (in most cases).
I very well could be wrong for your case though. I am not even close to an expert.
I do think stimulants would wake you up. I have had a couple adderall pills in college, and I think I probably had low T at the time. Felt amazing on them. Be careful with them though. There is up side and down side with them.
Really interesting time in the treatment of prostate cancer.
Some cancers that are resistant to ADT actually may respond to supra T therapy. 2nd paper lays out the mechanistic detail. Just like with breast cancer it is important to understand what type of receptor(s) cancer is involved with (e.g., HER2/ER/PR).
Complex and state of the art. Please discuss with professional.
Yes the irony is not lost on me bringing up the idea here of using supra pulsing of T for castration resistant prostrate cancer.
Prostate cancer (PCa) is characterized by a unique dependence on optimal androgen receptor (AR) activity where physiological androgen concentrations induce proliferation but castrate and supraphysiological levels suppress growth. This feature has been exploited in bipolar androgen therapy (BAT) for castrate resistant malignancies. Here, we investigated the role of the tumor suppressor protein p14ARF in maintaining optimal AR activity and the function of the AR itself in regulating p14ARF levels. We used a tumor tissue array of differing stages and grades to define the relationships between these components and identified a strong positive correlation between p14ARF and AR expression. Mechanistic studies utilizing CWR22 xenograft and cell culture models revealed that a decrease in AR reduced p14ARF expression and deregulated E2F factors, which are linked to p14ARF and AR regulation. Chromatin immunoprecipitation studies identified AR binding sites upstream of p14ARF. p14ARF depletion enhanced AR-dependent PSA and TMPRSS2 transcription, hence p14ARF constrains AR activity. However, p14ARF depletion ultimately results in apoptosis. In PCa cells, AR co-ops p14ARF as part of a feedback mechanism to ensure optimal AR activity for maximal prostate cancer cell survival and proliferation.
Thanks, but this chemistry is way above my head and probably most peoples, unless they are a medical expert in that field.
Thanks for the thought on Adderall, I am not sure which stimulant drug would be best, as I’m not looking for the strongest, just a short bump in the morning so I can walk and get a few things done without becoming dependent
Maybe after a few months of energy I will lose some weight and be more energetic .
Thanks again for your input
This simply isn’t true across the board, you need to have a specific type of prostate cancer for this to be true. Sadly not all doctors are up to date on current medical literature.
I never said I know more than your doctor, only that not all doctors are up to date. I see a lot of miscalculation from doctors on these forums all the time and was trying to make you aware that even the best makes mistakes because we’re only human.
If you’re comfortable with your doctor’s diagnosis, great, stick with him.
So in a round about way of answering your question, yes it should absolutely give you energy.
I wouldn’t be sold on Vyvanse though. It is typically the most expensive (by a lot). If it is covered by insurance, then go for it (not sure how medicine works where you are).
