[quote]horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.[/quote]
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.[/quote]
X2,
Sugar is addictive with little satisfaction. Fats have texture and are filling. Things that are full fat tend to be eaten in less quantities due to their filling and satisfying effect. I have a theory (flame me if you want), but I think that a big reason that low-fat foods are consumed in much higher quantities is because they have such little satisfying effect. Usually alot of salt or sugar needs to be added from the food so it doesn’t taste like cardboard. So in essence, you are better off eating some fuller fat foods than the lower fat version. I notice this with eggs. I can eat 2 whole eggs and be completely satified. If I eat egg whites only, I can eat 6 easily without much trouble. This is just my own theory of course, but if taste your taste buds aren’t happy, you will be craving more.
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?[/quote]
You cant get diabetes from eating fat.Fat wont rot your teeth.eating saturated fat as in steak releases testosterone into your body. Hows that
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?
You cant get diabetes from eating fat.Fat wont rot your teeth.eating saturated fat as in steak releases testosterone into your body. Hows that[/quote]
Just causes you to pile up with visceral fat, that wastes the extra testosterone and makes you fatter. Until you get to the point your body creates more fat cells which it never gets rid of and absorbs toxins until they build up and cause cancer.
How about you try a balanced diet and healthy foods, anytime you f’up just consider it adding bulk.
[quote]philipj wrote:
The sugar is the poor choice. Fats and proteins have existed for 40,000 years. Refined sugar becomes a problem. As someone becomes insulin resistant, the extra weight is sent to the waist area, in men, hip and thigh area for females. Stick with the good fats like fish and krill oil.[/quote]
ohhhhh so concentrated canola oil, Olive oil, sunflower oil, all existed for 40,000 years. I skilled that history class. Did the black cave men invent fried chicken too?
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?
You cant get diabetes from eating fat.Fat wont rot your teeth.eating saturated fat as in steak releases testosterone into your body. Hows that[/quote]
-
diabetes is cause by being overweight, not carbohydrates per se. being overweight is caused by a chronic calorie surplus, which can be achieved by overeating ANY macro nutrient.
-
sugar doesn’t rot your teeth, poor dental hygiene does.
-
saying that eating saturated fat raises testosterone is an oversimplification to say the least. the relationship is very complex and because of the numberous homeostatic mechanisms in the human body, the likelyhood that you will impact your hormonal profile to any significant degree is about 0
Good try though, I applaud your effort.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?
You cant get diabetes from eating fat.Fat wont rot your teeth.eating saturated fat as in steak releases testosterone into your body. Hows that
Just causes you to pile up with visceral fat, that wastes the extra testosterone and makes you fatter. Until you get to the point your body creates more fat cells which it never gets rid of and absorbs toxins until they build up and cause cancer.
How about you try a balanced diet and healthy foods, anytime you f’up just consider it adding bulk.
[/quote]
WTF are you talking about.pile up with visceral fat? is that what I said.
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?
You cant get diabetes from eating fat.Fat wont rot your teeth.eating saturated fat as in steak releases testosterone into your body. Hows that
-
diabetes is cause by being overweight, not carbohydrates per se. being overweight is caused by a chronic calorie surplus, which can be achieved by overeating ANY macro nutrient.
-
sugar doesn’t rot your teeth, poor dental hygiene does.
-
saying that eating saturated fat raises testosterone is an oversimplification to say the least. the relationship is very complex and because of the numberous homeostatic mechanisms in the human body, the likelyhood that you will impact your hormonal profile to any significant degree is about 0
Good try though, I applaud your effort.[/quote]
ok then give some examples why sugar is better.It must be since your making all these arguments against fat.
neither is better or worse, just DIFFERENT. depending on the composition of the rest of the diet, individual taste preference, blood sugar management, insulin sensitivity, and other factors, adding calories from either carbs OR fat may be the best option.
stop looking at things in a dualistic “good/bad” way, and learn to objectively evaluate things based on their relative strengths/weaknesses.
Fat has its place in a healthy diet,Sugar doesnt.The only sugar that was consumed for thousands of years came from fruit.people could take sugar completely out of there diets and be just fine.
EFA’s= essential fatty acids
Ive never heard of ESA’s
the fact that this is even a discussion blows my mind.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?
You cant get diabetes from eating fat.Fat wont rot your teeth.eating saturated fat as in steak releases testosterone into your body. Hows that
Just causes you to pile up with visceral fat, that wastes the extra testosterone and makes you fatter. Until you get to the point your body creates more fat cells which it never gets rid of and absorbs toxins until they build up and cause cancer.
How about you try a balanced diet and healthy foods, anytime you f’up just consider it adding bulk.
WTF are you talking about.pile up with visceral fat? is that what I said.[/quote]
Where the fuck you THINK the extra fat goes to? …oh wait you don’t think. Try reading more than T-Nation forum hype and understanding nutrients… At least with an overload of sugar theres a chance it’ll just make you a little hyper, overload of Saturated fat is guarenteed to stretch your belt.
listen puss (nice name btw), this isn’t a discussion of “what is the least amount of nutrients the body can consume without dying”. If you are so adament about cutting out foods that aren’t essential for life, then just go on a diet of water, EFAs, EAAs, and a multivitamin and be done with it.
This is a board about eating for strength, size, and body composition, not about how many foods you can cut out of your diet without dying.
The OP mentioned fat he certainly wasn’t talking about EPA & DHA (the ONLY essential fats), so playing the “fat is essential” card is misleading, because people can survive just fine eating no fat other than the aforementioned EFAs.
The bottom line is, when it comes down to sugar vs. fat, switching one for the other won’t make any significant difference in someones physique. Contrary to popular opinion on this board, eating carbs won’t make you fat as long as you’re in a calorie deficit (same goes for fat) so in the end, don’t sweat it.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Where the fuck you THINK the extra fat goes to? …oh wait you don’t think. Try reading more than T-Nation forum hype and understanding nutrients… At least with an overload of sugar theres a chance it’ll just make you a little hyper, overload of Saturated fat is guarenteed to stretch your belt.[/quote]
nah brah, if you load up on saturated fat, ur body jacks up teh testosterone an’ its like ur on roidz!
poliquin & dipasquale said so, bro
(p.s. sugar makes u fat bro)
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?
You cant get diabetes from eating fat.Fat wont rot your teeth.eating saturated fat as in steak releases testosterone into your body. Hows that
Just causes you to pile up with visceral fat, that wastes the extra testosterone and makes you fatter. Until you get to the point your body creates more fat cells which it never gets rid of and absorbs toxins until they build up and cause cancer.
How about you try a balanced diet and healthy foods, anytime you f’up just consider it adding bulk.
WTF are you talking about.pile up with visceral fat? is that what I said.
Where the fuck you THINK the extra fat goes to? …oh wait you don’t think. Try reading more than T-Nation forum hype and understanding nutrients… At least with an overload of sugar theres a chance it’ll just make you a little hyper, overload of Saturated fat is guarenteed to stretch your belt.[/quote
Ok once again.When did I say go out and eat truck loads of fat.Did I say that, Ever in my post.Did I say hey sugar is bad so go out to all the buffets in your area and eat up all the fatty shit you can find.Did I fucking say that motherfucker.
“If carbs are low, insulin is low and saturated fat is handled more efficiently,” said Jeff Volek, PhD, RD and one of the major researchers in the area of diet comparisons. “When carbs are low, you’re burning that saturated fat as fuel, and you’re also making less of it.”
So, eat way less carbohydrates and way less sugar, and it may not matter how much saturated fat you eat.
Wow thats from this site,
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
listen puss (nice name btw), this isn’t a discussion of “what is the least amount of nutrients the body can consume without dying”. If you are so adament about cutting out foods that aren’t essential for life, then just go on a diet of water, EFAs, EAAs, and a multivitamin and be done with it.
This is a board about eating for strength, size, and body composition, not about how many foods you can cut out of your diet without dying.
The OP mentioned fat he certainly wasn’t talking about EPA & DHA (the ONLY essential fats), so playing the “fat is essential” card is misleading, because people can survive just fine eating no fat other than the aforementioned EFAs.
The bottom line is, when it comes down to sugar vs. fat, switching one for the other won’t make any significant difference in someones physique. Contrary to popular opinion on this board, eating carbs won’t make you fat as long as you’re in a calorie deficit (same goes for fat) so in the end, don’t sweat it.
[/quote]
Dude your wrong,If you switched sat fat for sugar it would have a profound affect on your physique.
And my callsign isnt puss its horsepuss.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Sugar is worse.
that’s a well thought out response if I’ve ever seen one.
care to explain why?
You cant get diabetes from eating fat.Fat wont rot your teeth.eating saturated fat as in steak releases testosterone into your body. Hows that
Just causes you to pile up with visceral fat, that wastes the extra testosterone and makes you fatter. Until you get to the point your body creates more fat cells which it never gets rid of and absorbs toxins until they build up and cause cancer.
How about you try a balanced diet and healthy foods, anytime you f’up just consider it adding bulk.
WTF are you talking about.pile up with visceral fat? is that what I said.
Where the fuck you THINK the extra fat goes to? …oh wait you don’t think. Try reading more than T-Nation forum hype and understanding nutrients… At least with an overload of sugar theres a chance it’ll just make you a little hyper, overload of Saturated fat is guarenteed to stretch your belt.[/quote]
Ok once again.When did I say go out and eat truck loads of fat.Did I say that, Ever in my post.Did I say hey sugar is bad so go out to all the buffets in your area and eat up all the fatty shit you can find.Did I fucking say that motherfucker.
“If carbs are low, insulin is low and saturated fat is handled more efficiently,” said Jeff Volek, PhD, RD and one of the major researchers in the area of diet comparisons. “When carbs are low, you’re burning that saturated fat as fuel, and you’re also making less of it.”
So, eat way less carbohydrates and way less sugar, and it may not matter how much saturated fat you eat.
Wow thats from this site,
JMO is right, but it is fair to recognize the importance of practicality.
Cutting out 20g of sat fat from the diet and replacing it with 45g of sugar post-workout, or some more fruit, might be a positive improvement for a lot of people. Everybody at this point has a pretty good idea of the importance of replenishing glycogen stores and creating a positive energy balance for muscle growth, and that CHO postworkout is going to be the most effective dietary protocol in this regard. In my opinion this is among the strongest arguments that could be seen as “pro-carb”.
But the fact is that people have differing metabolic types and some suck with carbs. Probably less than they think on this forum, but some people just aren’t going to do well with much outside of fruit. If someone feels shitty after a meal or their hunger signals are fucked they are going to pay the price eventually. And long term, that’s really big. Caloric requirements can’t be meaningfully established by a formula. In both training and nutrition, I think “learn to read your body” is the most universal advice given by everyone successful for a good reason.
I disagree with the carb-ophobia, and think that most people would do extremely well on a moderate diet with fats from healthy sources, animal meat, vegetables, and fruits and dairy with the fruits as the primary carb source. This is the diet I would recommend to anyone as a base.
Some people may want more carbs than this, some can drink milk all day and some can’t even eat cheese, but these are individual nuances. If you haven’t actually tried eating a clean, balanced diet with all of the macros and eating when hungry, you are fucking yourself period. I have difficulty believing that anyone is going to magically become lethargic and store fat because they are eating too much fruit, and I know I’m not going out on a limb when I say that, for some retarded reason, the avg. enthusiast on bodybuilder forums doesn’t each much fruit.
I also am quite sure that a balanced, moderate diet that adjusts with the trainee’s body and training is going to be much more successful for the vast majority of trainees for practically any goal than the normal mentality of “raaar eat steaaaaak get hudge!” and " ups fat now gotta cut all the carbs o snap!"
I think the concepts of the regulation of bodyfat, effect of training on ones goals, and mostly just the general adaptive intelligence of the human body are repeatedly overlooked when evaluating the usefulness of dieting strategies and protocols for various individuals.
My coach,for example, he has trained who knows how many hundreds online and in person. I am sure there is great variation, but the common trend is to set them up with an intelligent training program based on their goals, a basic smart “healthy” diet, and have them eat when hungry and, “magic”. Recomp!
It seems that the only information being pushed nowadays is either dogma or hard set rules, and the basics of intelligent nutrition and listening to the bodys signals are just forgotten. The point is to give your body what is necessary to achieve ones goals, not satisfy some preconceived formula!
[quote]actionjeff wrote:
JMO is right, but it is fair to recognize the importance of practicality.
Cutting out 20g of sat fat from the diet and replacing it with 45g of sugar post-workout, or some more fruit, might be a positive improvement for a lot of people. Everybody at this point has a pretty good idea of the importance of replenishing glycogen stores and creating a positive energy balance for muscle growth, and that CHO postworkout is going to be the most effective dietary protocol in this regard. In my opinion this is among the strongest arguments that could be seen as “pro-carb”.
But the fact is that people have differing metabolic types and some suck with carbs. Probably less than they think on this forum, but some people just aren’t going to do well with much outside of fruit. If someone feels shitty after a meal or their hunger signals are fucked they are going to pay the price eventually. And long term, that’s really big. Caloric requirements can’t be meaningfully established by a formula. In both training and nutrition, I think “learn to read your body” is the most universal advice given by everyone successful for a good reason.
I disagree with the carb-ophobia, and think that most people would do extremely well on a moderate diet with fats from healthy sources, animal meat, vegetables, and fruits and dairy with the fruits as the primary carb source. This is the diet I would recommend to anyone as a base.
Some people may want more carbs than this, some can drink milk all day and some can’t even eat cheese, but these are individual nuances. If you haven’t actually tried eating a clean, balanced diet with all of the macros and eating when hungry, you are fucking yourself period. I have difficulty believing that anyone is going to magically become lethargic and store fat because they are eating too much fruit, and I know I’m not going out on a limb when I say that, for some retarded reason, the avg. enthusiast on bodybuilder forums doesn’t each much fruit.
I also am quite sure that a balanced, moderate diet that adjusts with the trainee’s body and training is going to be much more successful for the vast majority of trainees for practically any goal than the normal mentality of “raaar eat steaaaaak get hudge!” and " ups fat now gotta cut all the carbs o snap!"
I think the concept of the regulation of bodyfat and just the general adaptive intelligence of the human body are repeatedly overlooked when evaluating the usefulness of dieting strategies and protocols for various individuals. [/quote]
good post
everyone’s different, try new things and figure out what works
Who the fuck thinks of posts like this?!
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
The OP mentioned fat he certainly wasn’t talking about EPA & DHA (the ONLY essential fats), so playing the “fat is essential” card is misleading, because people can survive just fine eating no fat other than the aforementioned EFAs.
The bottom line is, when it comes down to sugar vs. fat, switching one for the other won’t make any significant difference in someones physique. Contrary to popular opinion on this board, eating carbs won’t make you fat as long as you’re in a calorie deficit (same goes for fat) so in the end, don’t sweat it.
[/quote]
Actually you forgot to mention GLA, DGLA, and AA which are also essential fats. Also, fatty acids such as Lauric Acid may not be essential, they can, and have been proven to boost thyroid and other gland function.
I agree that the most important factor to losing weight is a caloric deficit. However, you make it sound as if eating 2000 calories of granulated sugar, with a little bit of protein powder and EFAs+Multi will get you the same results as 2000 calories of steak and veggies.
I think diet is a very individual thing. I’ve seen some people switch to a high fat low carb diet and they feel great and look better. Also, I’ve seen some people switch to a high fat diet and feel like crap. I’ve never seen someone switch to a high carb diet because it’s sort of the default diet in America but I’m sure some people do better with higher carbs.
Personally I believe that for those who are suited for it, a high fat diet can improve ones anabolism. However, if you don’t at least you can agree with this: Crashes in blood sugar cause cravings. A high fat, low carb diet stabilizes blood sugar much better than a high carb, low fat diet. Cravings can be a pain if you’re trying to lose fat.