Student Debt

Off Topic
81

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]SlothGuy wrote:
And I agree, a lot of people may have dreams and aspirations of saying “fuck it” to university and paving their own way. In my own experiences, these are the people who are in their mid-20s with no good job prospects, living with their parents and doing the same shit. I don’t regret going to university, it gives me far more options. And if you’re willing to bust your ass you can get a student loan paid off fairly quickly (at least in Canada).[/quote]

Exactly.

Sorry B.L.U. Ninja, if you care about making decent coin, you’re going to have to go to university even if you hate school. That’s life.[/quote]

Dude, I understand what you’re saying man, but I don’t even really care about making a shit load of money. I’ve been mulling over some options and decisions I know I would be making in the future and realized, money is not something I want to chase.

I wasn’t born in Canada and my heart is still back in my country. I just happen to love training and want to at least make a living off of it for a few years here in this beautiful country. But I’ve decided that at some point, when I save enough money, I’m gonna go back home and build a business over there, and give back to the less fortunate people by giving them jobs. (Obviously not everyone, but people I grew up with who were not as fortunate as I am).

I dont know if you guys understand this train of thought, but money is FAR from what I’m trying to chase here.

I feel comfortable discussing these things cause you guys are passionate about training, and although I may have gone a tad bit “sentimental” or whatever, I don’t mind.

If anyone here is from a small town or different country(third world), you may understand. While other people are worrying about mortgage, cars and debts, hopefully, I’ll be enjoying the nice summer breeze out in my backyard back home, only worrying about what I should eat. Should I go catch a chicken, or butcher that cow out in my field?

Off topic, sorry, but I had coffee :smiley:

82

Actually, out of curiosity, what do some of the PTs who post here make?

I imagine there is a wide range. Which depending on how you look at it had a lot of potential, or a lot of risk [I mean it’s both…but you know what I mean].

83

[quote]challer1 wrote:
DPT = doctor of physical therapy, and I believe Dave Tate has no college degree, but I could be wrong about that.[/quote]

No, Dave has a degree in exercise science, or something performance-related, maybe kinesiology? He went to Ball State and transferred to Bowling Green, or vice versa. Might have one of thsoe schools wrong, but bottom line, he definitely graduated from a four year school.

84

Oxford and Cambridge were the only two universities, when I checked, that had applied to charge the FULL 9k-they do have to make some sort of justification to impose this fee. Maybe now the other Russell groups have also jumped on board.

I work as well as study, so I’m guessing that I’m not entitled to much, though I will look into it further.

Yes Bambi, you are right if I start my studies this September the institution will honor the 3.5k pa fee’s. I was planning on doing further undergrad studies for a year to boost my UCAS points and increase my chances of being accepted into a more distinguished university but its in my best interests now to take advantage of the lower fees and start ASAP LOL.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]buddaboy wrote:
What are the options for people in the UK in terms of government funding for degrees study?

I actually think that out pricing many people from higher education isn’t actually that bad an idea, since there aren’t that many jobs out there for people, at least ones that require degrees.

I’m in a similar predicament, I’m really enjoying studying as an adult, I’m set to pass my first year, an access course, and the fucking fees are set to sky rocket. Only Oxbridge have applied to implement the maximum fees of 9k pa, but you can bet the Russell group universities will be hiking the fee’s up to a good 80% of the 9k.

[/quote]

What are you talking about? ALL of the big universities and (if I remember correctly) all off the russel and 90% of the 1994 group are now wanting 9k from 2012. Imperial LSE UCL, Durham Bristol Sheffield Leeds, Newcastle, Southampton, Royal Holloway, Exeter, Birmingham, etc etc. The only ones that aren’t are shitty ones like Derby or London South Bank. When do you enter university? If you enter this forthcoming year then fees are still only 3.4k. As for government funding look around. There are maintenance grants available for mature students; usually check with the university you’re applying for on their website or contact the relevant department[/quote]

85

[quote]Bambi wrote:
Linguistics[/quote]

Cool.

[quote]Misterhamper wrote:
In Denmark, the school would have a 0$/year tuition fee, and together with that you would get up to 700$ a month just to attend school if you are between 18-20, and 700$ if you are 20 or over. Plus there is 2% interest student loans you can take.
Must say, socialistic countries do have it pretty well with some things.[/quote]

Internet high five. Just curious, you write 700$ twice, what did you really mean?

[quote]Ratchet wrote:
its still not free though, you guys forget that the money comes from somewhere… odds are its your taxes, you pay a lot higher taxes in socialist countries… id rather take on some debt (i made it through school (phd next spring) without any debit) I did it by scholarships, working and help from family…

now I dont have to be stuck paying for some retard to go to college and study bussiness or linguistics for the rest of my life… id call that a win…

Also, anyone in the US can go to college, just give uncle same 5 years … poof… no debt
[/quote]

Of course, but who says we have to stay here and pay taxes after we graduate? And all things considered (medical insurance, education for our kids etc) I don’t think it’s that bad.

86

[quote]KBCThird wrote:

[quote]challer1 wrote:
DPT = doctor of physical therapy, and I believe Dave Tate has no college degree, but I could be wrong about that.[/quote]

No, Dave has a degree in exercise science, or something performance-related, maybe kinesiology? He went to Ball State and transferred to Bowling Green, or vice versa. Might have one of thsoe schools wrong, but bottom line, he definitely graduated from a four year school.[/quote]

My fault - as I said I wasn’t sure - I just noticed whenever you read a brief bio of Dave Tate no one ever mentions that he has a degree.

87

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]challer1 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
You have made some valid points. I mentioned the chiropractor route simply because I’ve seen people who’ve done it and are wildly successful now. It’s not a bad thing to aim for, especially since treating people generates a lot income aside from PT.

At the end of the day PTing is a hard line of work to make a good income. I doubt most make over 60k which is pretty shitty by today’s standards.[/quote]

I agree that PT is a hard line of work to make a good income. I am not sure where you pulled 60k from - way less than the average starting salary for college grads. Only a chemical engineer (or something similar) can hope to work for someone else right out of undergrad and pull in 60k a year to start. The average undergrad will start in the 30s.

[quote]
Also lets not act like Jillian Michaels is the norm, most personal trainers earn a paltry sum.[/quote]

Not sure how you interpreted that - I specifically said she was probably the highest paid trainer despite having no degree. I only brought her up as a counter point to you mentioning several trainers who are also not the norm.

[quote]
I disagree that a natural science degree is useless, it leaves the door opens for other career opportunities in case the PT route fails. In Canada school is not as expensive as it is in the US, an undergrad degree here is roughly 40k in tuition. Plus B.L.U. Ninja is a minority so he has several scholarship opportunities.[/quote]

Fair enough, but it depends what type. A B.S. in Physics or chemistry might have real world value, but then again this also doesn’t act as a qualifier either for most potential clients… so what was the point of getting the degree first again? You could always go back later if you decided training wasn’t your cup of tea.

[quote]
I also really think you are under estimating how hard it is to successfully start and run a PT business. It’s also pretty damn hard to “build a brand online” IMO. I mean just look at this site, a lot of the people writing for this site 10 years ago aren’t really around today.[/quote]

No offense, but look at who wrote the articles 10 years ago. Almost every article submitted to this site was authored by: TC, Chris Shugart, “The Editors”, Charles Poliquin, Cy Wilson, Dave Tate, Ian King, and John Berardi. All of these people are around today (aside from perhaps anonymous editors) and all went on to have long and illustrious careers in the strength world. Anyone who started online 10 years ago and stuck with it is big now.

I also realize that starting a gym is not super easy. That is why I suggest starting at a local gym, building up a reputation in your town as the go-to guy by getting great results for your clients, starting a blog and building up a local following (you don’t have to be an internet celebrity to get local business from the web), and saving money. If you spend 6 years collecting clients, references, and building yourself a great reputation (even if it is only local), and actually have money to rent out a cheap place (you can always start in small if you’ve got a client list ready)… then starting a gym will be easy.

If you show up at the bank with a degree and a business plan, no clients, no money, and no experience hoping to get some money to maybe succeed, then yes, that is highly risky.

I see my way as actually the safer bet. Here’s the thing… there are only two ways my plan ends: 1) person loves training and what they are doing, it fills them with enthusiasm and they are happy to work hard to get better at training, build their client base, and begin creating their online presence… they go on to do very well and have a 2) the person realizes a year or three into it that they don’t really like training. Fortunately, they’ve been saving their money so they can go to school and come out with no debt, and actually have a better idea what they want to do with their life and as such they don’t end up with a toothless biology degree.

Getting the degree first… you run the risk of getting a degree somewhat related to training, graduate only to realize training isn’t for you. Now you have a degree in something you aren’t interested in and are in a ton of debt, so you’re going to be forced into what ever job you can get to pay off said loans.

Of course, it would be different if it was free. If there’s debt involved I think work first degree later is a much safer option.[/quote]

50-60k is about the most a PT will EVER make man. Obviously there are exceptions. That’s why I brought it up. Most people who study something serious in college make much more than that during their career. Yeah 60k is GREAT just out of college.

The reason you do a degree first is because it’s a lot easier going to school not buried in debt. If you start PTing, take out a huge loan then end up failing you have nothing to fall back on. It’s lot easier going to school not already buried in debt. In Canada if you manage your money you can finish school with little to no debt.

They changed the format of this site, but you use to view a list of all the authors who have ever written for this site. There were TONS of different names listed before and you mentioned only the few that around today. I also think Dave Tate is a poor example seeing how he was an ELITE powerlifter and it’s pretty easy to have rep with elite totals.

Dude the thing about a degree is even if you do not like what you studied it’s perfectly possible to switch into something else during or after graduating (assuming you have good grades). Heck my sister’s roommates (and classmates) in dental school had majors unrelated to science (one was a history major and the other was an econ major).

Also a biology degree is just ONE example, there are several other good topics one can study.[/quote]

I think you are misinterpreting my suggestion. I am suggesting that he get a job as a trainer and save as much money as possible. This money would then fund the gym - no debt required. I am also not suggesting even using most of the money. You could easily get a training gym up and running for $5000 in equipment and have everything you need - no debt required and really this should barely scratch any sort of savings if you have lived cheaply for the last 4 years (like you’d have to do in college anyway), I’m not suggesting to go run out and start a commercial gym.

I am suggesting, however, that if you want to train people and make decent money you need to work for yourself. That way when you charge a standard rate, you make $60+ an hour instead 20-30. If you are training for several years and are halfway good, you will have a nice set of client contacts and it will be a great launching point for your business. Many will follow you from your commercial gym to your training studio. This is how you start making more than 60k as a trainer, with practically no risk.

If it doesn’t work out, you can always go back to college and have a head start on everyone else due to having a lot of $ squared away. You don’t need to squander the nest egg to start a training studio… only costs a couple grand and you can sell the equipment when you’re done.

I think the most important thing to work and save for a few years, so when you finally do go to college, you will have a better idea of what you want to study AND graduate with no debt (should you have saved).

88

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Thank you for the inputs Raj and Challer.

Reading your posts, I can honestly say that Challer’s argument makes more sense, at least to me. I dont really see myself putting in 4 years of work in college, dragging myself everyday and hating it. I forgot to mention I hate school, well, the amount of unnecessary work that’s done really. And I would shoot myself if I had to go another 4 years to earn a degree that I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to because of the long process, when there’s all these trainers with no degrees doing quite well.Not to mention there’s this guy walking around my gym with a nine month gut telling people how to lose weight. (looking the part, like Challer said would be crucial) (He’s not an exception either and I think most would agree).

My plan is to get in the industry as a trainer and build myself up from there. The route I’m thinking is, getting a diploma and certifications, get a job in a gym and save up. There’s a lot of respected trainers around and learning from them (internships) instead of just listening to hour long lectures IMO is a better, more practical way.[/quote]

Fine…but if your taking the prerequisites for a science/math related degree keep doing well on them even if you aren’t planning on going to uni for a science related degree. Keep your options open in case you change your mind.

I don’t know much about it, but isn’t PT something you can do on the side of studying? Not every business requires you to give all of your attention to it right from the get go. Start it off on the side maybe, and then expand when you finish your degree [or I guess if you see business is doing so well it makes more sense not to expand right away].

What if you are a shitty trainer? Or you do know what you’re doing but can’t communicate it well to your clients because of bad people skills. Not to mention factors out of your control. I say go for the degree, and start you’re PTing on the side if you can, and if you’re good [as in getting results] get more serious. You don’t have to rush into things; test the waters first.

This isn’t an argument against challer or Raj, who I think made good points. I’m just suggesting a middle-ground that could get the best of both worlds. [/quote]

Being a bad trainer or realizing training is not as glamorous as it might appear is why my approach is the safest. If you find out you don’t like it after getting a job at your local gym and sticking it out for a year, you should be able to go back to school and have plenty of $ in the bank to help pay your way. This way you don’t end up with a training degree, start training, realize its not for your, and want to move on to something else.

89

[quote]challer1 wrote:

[quote]KBCThird wrote:

[quote]challer1 wrote:
DPT = doctor of physical therapy, and I believe Dave Tate has no college degree, but I could be wrong about that.[/quote]

No, Dave has a degree in exercise science, or something performance-related, maybe kinesiology? He went to Ball State and transferred to Bowling Green, or vice versa. Might have one of thsoe schools wrong, but bottom line, he definitely graduated from a four year school.[/quote]

My fault - as I said I wasn’t sure - I just noticed whenever you read a brief bio of Dave Tate no one ever mentions that he has a degree. [/quote]

Dave himself has mentioned his degree in articles numerous times in the past 10+ years.

90

For some going to college is the right move. For others, it is not. The difficulty is finding out which of these 2 different paths is right for YOU.

Both sides - “College is for suckers” and “college is the only way to make decent coin” are equally false. It is highly dependent upon the individual and their specific situation.

91

[quote]challer1 wrote:

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Thank you for the inputs Raj and Challer.

Reading your posts, I can honestly say that Challer’s argument makes more sense, at least to me. I dont really see myself putting in 4 years of work in college, dragging myself everyday and hating it. I forgot to mention I hate school, well, the amount of unnecessary work that’s done really. And I would shoot myself if I had to go another 4 years to earn a degree that I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to because of the long process, when there’s all these trainers with no degrees doing quite well.Not to mention there’s this guy walking around my gym with a nine month gut telling people how to lose weight. (looking the part, like Challer said would be crucial) (He’s not an exception either and I think most would agree).

My plan is to get in the industry as a trainer and build myself up from there. The route I’m thinking is, getting a diploma and certifications, get a job in a gym and save up. There’s a lot of respected trainers around and learning from them (internships) instead of just listening to hour long lectures IMO is a better, more practical way.[/quote]

Fine…but if your taking the prerequisites for a science/math related degree keep doing well on them even if you aren’t planning on going to uni for a science related degree. Keep your options open in case you change your mind.

I don’t know much about it, but isn’t PT something you can do on the side of studying? Not every business requires you to give all of your attention to it right from the get go. Start it off on the side maybe, and then expand when you finish your degree [or I guess if you see business is doing so well it makes more sense not to expand right away].

What if you are a shitty trainer? Or you do know what you’re doing but can’t communicate it well to your clients because of bad people skills. Not to mention factors out of your control. I say go for the degree, and start you’re PTing on the side if you can, and if you’re good [as in getting results] get more serious. You don’t have to rush into things; test the waters first.

This isn’t an argument against challer or Raj, who I think made good points. I’m just suggesting a middle-ground that could get the best of both worlds. [/quote]

Being a bad trainer or realizing training is not as glamorous as it might appear is why my approach is the safest. If you find out you don’t like it after getting a job at your local gym and sticking it out for a year, you should be able to go back to school and have plenty of $ in the bank to help pay your way. This way you don’t end up with a training degree, start training, realize its not for your, and want to move on to something else.
[/quote]

I agree with what you’re saying but neither Raj nor myself said he had to get a “training degree”. Biology was the example used, but it doesn’t have to be that and biology sets you up for more different careers than just training related ones anyway.

I would still say that BLU should work on getting a degree and start the training on the side, so he can find out if it’s for him without wasting as much time or resources as he would if he did it full on right from the start.

92

[quote]
I agree with what you’re saying but neither Raj nor myself said he had to get a “training degree”. Biology was the example used, but it doesn’t have to be that and biology sets you up for more different careers than just training related ones anyway.[/quote]

Biology sets you up for nothing unless you want to go to graduate school, at which point really any undergrad degree will do. I know a lot of people that have them - they don’t really qualify you for anything like an engineering, physics, or chemistry degree might. I suppose it sets you up for med school, which is not going to exactly be on the options list for someone who says they hate school.

[quote]
I would still say that BLU should work on getting a degree and start the training on the side, so he can find out if it’s for him without wasting as much time or resources as he would if he did it full on right from the start.[/quote]

How do you figure he would be wasting resources by working and saving money? He’d be gaining resources, not losing them, if he worked as a trainer full-time and saved his money. By going to school first he would be losing resources.

You really don’t know if something is “for you” by working part-time. There is a big difference in lifestyle being a full-time student/part-time trainer and being a full-time trainer. In the first one your work identity comes from your classes and your peers. In the latter situation your work identity becomes someone in the service profession.

There real advantage to this approach from someone who has been there, done that, and met tons of trainers along the way is this: most people think they would like being a trainer, but it turns out to be MUCH different than they expected. With my option there is no risk - just start working… if you don’t like it, go back to school. If you grab a degree in any sort of science you are making a big commitment, both in terms of money and time, much larger than working for a year and realizing that you don’t want to train for the rest of your life.

93

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
For some going to college is the right move. For others, it is not. The difficulty is finding out which of these 2 different paths is right for YOU.

Both sides - “College is for suckers” and “college is the only way to make decent coin” are equally false. It is highly dependent upon the individual and their specific situation.[/quote]

This. Just as not everyone is cut out for college, not everyone is cut out to be a businessperson, or even the trades for that matter.

94

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]SlothGuy wrote:
And I agree, a lot of people may have dreams and aspirations of saying “fuck it” to university and paving their own way. In my own experiences, these are the people who are in their mid-20s with no good job prospects, living with their parents and doing the same shit. I don’t regret going to university, it gives me far more options. And if you’re willing to bust your ass you can get a student loan paid off fairly quickly (at least in Canada).[/quote]

Exactly.

Sorry B.L.U. Ninja, if you care about making decent coin, you’re going to have to go to university even if you hate school. That’s life.[/quote]

Dude, I understand what you’re saying man, but I don’t even really care about making a shit load of money. I’ve been mulling over some options and decisions I know I would be making in the future and realized, money is not something I want to chase.

I wasn’t born in Canada and my heart is still back in my country. I just happen to love training and want to at least make a living off of it for a few years here in this beautiful country. But I’ve decided that at some point, when I save enough money, I’m gonna go back home and build a business over there, and give back to the less fortunate people by giving them jobs. (Obviously not everyone, but people I grew up with who were not as fortunate as I am).

I dont know if you guys understand this train of thought, but money is FAR from what I’m trying to chase here.

I feel comfortable discussing these things cause you guys are passionate about training, and although I may have gone a tad bit “sentimental” or whatever, I don’t mind.

If anyone here is from a small town or different country(third world), you may understand. While other people are worrying about mortgage, cars and debts, hopefully, I’ll be enjoying the nice summer breeze out in my backyard back home, only worrying about what I should eat. Should I go catch a chicken, or butcher that cow out in my field?

Off topic, sorry, but I had coffee :smiley:
[/quote]

Dude, no one is talking about shit loads of money. I’m talking about making enough money to live comfortably. You do care about that at least?

Most PT’s make a paltry sum and trust me when I say you DON’T want to be living paycheque to paycheque.

If you want to move back home and help your people think about how you want to do it and what capacity. You’ll be a lot better help if you’re actually bringing something to the table. Good luck helping people back home with no skills, education or money. You currently live in a damn good country with great educational opportunities. Years later when you’ve moved back home, you’ll regret wasting your time in Canada.

Oh and if you haven’t noticed, challer has yet to produce a successful contributor to this site without a degree.

I’ll leave it at that.

95

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
For some going to college is the right move. For others, it is not. The difficulty is finding out which of these 2 different paths is right for YOU.

Both sides - “College is for suckers” and “college is the only way to make decent coin” are equally false. It is highly dependent upon the individual and their specific situation.[/quote]

I agree. But two things I am making my recommendation on:

  1. I’ve met B.L.U. Ninja in person

  2. He wants to be a PTer as a CAREER. That’s a very difficult career to make a decent living.

96

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]SlothGuy wrote:
And I agree, a lot of people may have dreams and aspirations of saying “fuck it” to university and paving their own way. In my own experiences, these are the people who are in their mid-20s with no good job prospects, living with their parents and doing the same shit. I don’t regret going to university, it gives me far more options. And if you’re willing to bust your ass you can get a student loan paid off fairly quickly (at least in Canada).[/quote]

Exactly.

Sorry B.L.U. Ninja, if you care about making decent coin, you’re going to have to go to university even if you hate school. That’s life.[/quote]

Dude, I understand what you’re saying man, but I don’t even really care about making a shit load of money. I’ve been mulling over some options and decisions I know I would be making in the future and realized, money is not something I want to chase.

I wasn’t born in Canada and my heart is still back in my country. I just happen to love training and want to at least make a living off of it for a few years here in this beautiful country. But I’ve decided that at some point, when I save enough money, I’m gonna go back home and build a business over there, and give back to the less fortunate people by giving them jobs. (Obviously not everyone, but people I grew up with who were not as fortunate as I am).

I dont know if you guys understand this train of thought, but money is FAR from what I’m trying to chase here.

I feel comfortable discussing these things cause you guys are passionate about training, and although I may have gone a tad bit “sentimental” or whatever, I don’t mind.

If anyone here is from a small town or different country(third world), you may understand. While other people are worrying about mortgage, cars and debts, hopefully, I’ll be enjoying the nice summer breeze out in my backyard back home, only worrying about what I should eat. Should I go catch a chicken, or butcher that cow out in my field?

Off topic, sorry, but I had coffee :smiley:
[/quote]

Dude, no one is talking about shit loads of money. I’m talking about making enough money to live comfortably. You do care about that at least?

Most PT’s make a paltry sum and trust me when I say you DON’T want to be living paycheque to paycheque.

If you want to move back home and help your people think about how you want to do it and what capacity. You’ll be a lot better help if you’re actually bringing something to the table. Good luck helping people back home with no skills, education or money. You currently live in a damn good country with great educational opportunities. Years later when you’ve moved back home, you’ll regret wasting your time in Canada.

Oh and if you haven’t noticed, challer has yet to produce a successful contributor to this site without a degree.

I’ll leave it at that. [/quote]

Are you seriously suggesting that you have to be a contributor to this site to be a successful trainer? This site caters to a very specific (i.e. “hardcore”) group within the very wide realm within health and fitness. The qualifiers for reputable to us (the readers) are going to be WAY different as 99% of your personal training prospects are not avid readers of tnation.

Additionally, that is further confounded by the fact that most smarter/driven people are fed the same crap about how you need a degree, so most end up getting one whether they need it or not.

My stance is one of experience. I wanted to be a trainer (or so I thought), went out and got my degree in kinesiology (i.e. exercise / sports science), started training when I was in school at a local studio. I worked as a trainer for my final 2.5 years of school and started working full time as a trainer. While I was in school, I used training money for food, books, and part of my rent; took loans for the tuition and the rest of my rent. When I went full time, I was on pace to make about 45-50k my first year doing it full time, and I was able to save some money… that was until my loan repayments kicked in. That was just crushing. There was no realistic way I would be able to pay back my loans any time soon, live in the city I was in (even though I was sharing a house with 3 other people in a shady neighborhood) on a trainer’s pay.

The thing is, even if I got a “real” degree I would have been screwed. I was making pretty decent money for a new grad (like I said on pace for 45-50k), so even if I had a “real” major aside from kines, I still would have been screwed. The average salary for new grads is definitely much lower than that, unless you are in engineering.

Long story short, I moved home with my parents in order to save on rent, got a salary job which I worked during the day, started a business online which I worked on at night and on the weekends. I built that up my website portfolio to the point where it is now my full-time job and I make a very good living. I am finally about to be debt free some 2.5 years after graduation. I would have been stuck in debt forever had I not been able to start my own business and work my ass off for a year and a half to break the cycle.

Meanwhile, a guy I worked with at my old training studio, who had built up a nice clientele over the last 6-7 years, (he is a few years older than me and had been working various since 18), has no degree (and hence no loans), and invested his money wisely, just wrote a check for 100k as a down payment on a house. Just an average guy working 35 hours a week who is making a pretty good living as a trainer simply because he didn’t have to fork over 40k+ to get a degree which really wouldn’t help him in his job and instead invested that money intelligently in something that actually did work for him. He had a pretty comfortable lifestyle and only works about 35 hours a week to meet his investing goals.

Point is I’ve been there, and if I could do it again or tell someone how to avoid my mistakes it would be 100% do not go to college and take out loans if your end-game is to be a trainer. If you can do it debt free (scholarships, grants) sure, go for it, but as soon as you decide its a good idea to go into debt for a piece of paper which does little to increase your earning capacity, you’ve made a costly mistake.

As stated, odds are the guy will decide that full-training training isn’t for him (something most people do and something you can’t see when you are just part-time) and be able to go back to school for say, accounting, or become a police officer, or do whatever else he wants without being tied debt forever as a trainer or taking a job he has no interest in. Life’s too short to do something you hate 40-55 hours a week (not counting commuting or getting ready), but that’s another rant for another thread.

You are right, trainers don’t start out making very much money. You need to start your own place to become very successful as a trainer (or branch out online, but that’s a bit off topic). Since you don’t make much money as a trainer working for someone else, the last thing you need is a crushing student loan repayment which makes it practically impossible to scrap together enough coin to start your own place on your low(er) salary. You’ll never be able to break the debt cycle on a trainer’s pay if you put yourself into it by going into debt for a degree.

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My tuition for the year was ~$3,300. Just one of my scholarships covers tuition and books. Eff yea Kansas.

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I’m in Chiropractic school now and unless you have something set up for yourself, you will graduate closer to 200k in debt. (Being single would be iBut my model will probably follow theraj ideas. Once my patient load is big enough I’ll probably look to contract a trainer to work for me.

As a fulltime PT during my best months I brought in 3000/month. Two top trainers at my gym took home ~55k and 60k a year. They were probably top 30 trainers in region. Other people who made more than them were Fitness managers who held a full client list and pulled a salary for managerial duties.

I believe you can make a decent living as a PT provided you’re frugal, save enough on your high months to make it through the low seasons, and you are personable.

One of the above mentioned trainers saved enough to put his wife through pharmacy (sp) school and now lives pretty well. I remember him telling me how he has driven the same honda since his senior year of HS and he constantly rode his bike to save money on vehicle costs.

PS if you are upset about the cycle of schooling and debt, break it with YOUR children.

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This thread makes me glad I’m getting my engineering degree in 2 months. My younger brother otoh is the reason threads like this are made.

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Whats your web business Challer?