Student Debt

Off Topic
61

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
To add B.L.U. Ninja I remember you making a thread about PT certs. I don’t know much about that stuff, but if you’re interested in that you could study biology or life sciences and then make up your mind after 4 years. Having a science degree will give you several career options after graduating and you can still become a PT during or after University.
[/quote]

But the thing though is, like many people pointed out on different occasions, how many PTs with degrees are really worth it? I mean, sure there are quite a few, but the ratio is not so good with soooo many people trying to break into the industry.

I figured, getting a cert or a 1-2 year course and getting a diploma would be fine, as long as I keep studying and learning on my own or via internships with good coaches.

I know way too many PTs not worth a bag of rocks and you look at their “credentials”, they all have 4 year degrees. So, I don’t know, what does that say really?
[/quote]

Don’t forget some of the more prominent authors on this site DO have advanced degrees (Christian Thibaudeau, Eric Cressey, and Dr. Clay Hyight to name a few).

I think a better career path would be to get a natural science degree, then Chiropractor school, then open a clinic and offer PT.

I’ve seen it done, and you will not only make good coin, but it’s a LOT more safe and secure.

I use to get treatment on my shoulder from a guy who is a Chiropractor, a PICP level 2 coach and also does PT in his clinic. He has also worked with NHL players and other pro athletes.

The reality is living as a PT only will be very tough, especially if you ever plan to support a wife/kids in some point in your life.

I know 4-6 years of school seems like a long time (if your 18 that’s a 3rd of your life so far) but it’s really not.

I only can tell you, go to university study something serious (Natural science / business / engineering) do well. Every one of my friends who did not do this are now regretting it. Don’t be one of them.
[/quote]

In my opinion, unless you’re getting a full ride, doing 6 years of college and spending a ton of $$ on a degree is a waste if your end-game is to be a trainer. Sure, degrees might be a qualifier for a very small minority of people, but for those of us who live in reality, the #1 way to qualify yourself for clients is to look the part. You can have a PhD in exercise physiology but if you don’t look the part you will have more work to do when building rapport and earning a clients’ trust than if you don’t even have a GED and look great.

6+ years is a long time to be bleeding money, let alone not earning any. To earn a 4-yr and a chiropractic degree would run easily 100k+ in tuition (especially when you factor in chiro school).

If you just ground it out for 6-7 years as at a local gym, saved half your money and invested it, by the time you would have graduated school you’ll have 6 figures in the bank instead of being 6 figures in debt. I think this is a lot more safe and secure than potentially winding up with a bio degree or natural science degree which really isn’t worth anything at the end of the day.

Starting life off with tons of debt makes little sense and doesn’t seem secure to me at all. The difference between having 100k+ saved instead of owing 50k (undergrad) or 100k (advanced schooling) is the difference between getting paid out $500 of interest a month and owing $500+ a month. The extra clients you name with a bachelor’s degree won’t add up to that much ;p.

Plus, after all those years of training if you had built up any sort of reputation, you could then take that money and start your own gym (read: personal training studio). You shouldn’t even need 6 years to get your own business up and running… if you are good I’d imagine you could build a solid reputation in 3 years (combination of looking the part and actually being good at what you do), especially if you built up your brand online. Now on the other hand if you get in massive debt from many years of schooling, good luck scraping the cash together to start your own place, let alone get a loan in our current economic state.

Furthermore, I would say that the common factor between Dr. Clay / CT / EC is not an advanced degree, but rather building up a brand online by producing content people wanted to read. The most successful authors on this site have all built up very specific brands via their content creation. Dr. Clay has positioned himself as a bodybuilding expert with articles on bringing up lagging body parts, offering physique critiques, and fat loss plans. CT is the performance mass guy, opting for articles that focus on min/maxing the process of building muscle and getting lean while making strength a priority. EC on the other hand went an entirely different direction and built a brand up for himself primarily with his rehab articles. Does EC have a DPT? Nope, and the readers don’t care - great content in front of an eager audience does not require letters.

While I’m sure CT’s studies on biomechanics were interesting, I think its a good wager that most of his methodologies stem from his o. lifting background combined with tons of experiments in the gym on his own time, not in the lab on his university’s time. Do you see CT sign his articles as Christian Thibeadeau, MS? Nope - that’s not his brand. We all recognize his brand as someone we trust (or at least invokes some curiosity as to what he has come up with next)… we don’t need the letters. Your clients will feel the same way once you build rapport with them.

10s of thousands of trainers have advanced degrees and none of us know them. Jillian Michaels (even if you hate her) is probably making more $ than any other trainer in the country at the moment and she doesn’t have a college degree.

tl;dr: If you want to be a trainer, a degree is a waste of money and time. #1 priority needs to be getting in a local gym, building a client base, learning the business, and making your own physique perfect. Once you have that all nailed down and are good at what you do, scale up either by starting your own place, branching out online, or both.

62

tuition is 6000 CAD/semester here (so if you don’t fail any classes and take a normal 4 year degree it’s ~50k for a degree) if you live in rez, double that

I think macgill is like 4000 a semester, but you have to have been born in Quebec, otherwise it’s rather comparable to every other college in canada in terms of fees

63

[quote]challer1 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
To add B.L.U. Ninja I remember you making a thread about PT certs. I don’t know much about that stuff, but if you’re interested in that you could study biology or life sciences and then make up your mind after 4 years. Having a science degree will give you several career options after graduating and you can still become a PT during or after University.
[/quote]

But the thing though is, like many people pointed out on different occasions, how many PTs with degrees are really worth it? I mean, sure there are quite a few, but the ratio is not so good with soooo many people trying to break into the industry.

I figured, getting a cert or a 1-2 year course and getting a diploma would be fine, as long as I keep studying and learning on my own or via internships with good coaches.

I know way too many PTs not worth a bag of rocks and you look at their “credentials”, they all have 4 year degrees. So, I don’t know, what does that say really?
[/quote]

Don’t forget some of the more prominent authors on this site DO have advanced degrees (Christian Thibaudeau, Eric Cressey, and Dr. Clay Hyight to name a few).

I think a better career path would be to get a natural science degree, then Chiropractor school, then open a clinic and offer PT.

I’ve seen it done, and you will not only make good coin, but it’s a LOT more safe and secure.

I use to get treatment on my shoulder from a guy who is a Chiropractor, a PICP level 2 coach and also does PT in his clinic. He has also worked with NHL players and other pro athletes.

The reality is living as a PT only will be very tough, especially if you ever plan to support a wife/kids in some point in your life.

I know 4-6 years of school seems like a long time (if your 18 that’s a 3rd of your life so far) but it’s really not.

I only can tell you, go to university study something serious (Natural science / business / engineering) do well. Every one of my friends who did not do this are now regretting it. Don’t be one of them.
[/quote]

In my opinion, unless you’re getting a full ride, doing 6 years of college and spending a ton of $$ on a degree is a waste if your end-game is to be a trainer. Sure, degrees might be a qualifier for a very small minority of people, but for those of us who live in reality, the #1 way to qualify yourself for clients is to look the part. You can have a PhD in exercise physiology but if you don’t look the part you will have more work to do when building rapport and earning a clients’ trust than if you don’t even have a GED and look great.

6+ years is a long time to be bleeding money, let alone not earning any. To earn a 4-yr and a chiropractic degree would run easily 100k+ in tuition (especially when you factor in chiro school).

If you just ground it out for 6-7 years as at a local gym, saved half your money and invested it, by the time you would have graduated school you’ll have 6 figures in the bank instead of being 6 figures in debt. I think this is a lot more safe and secure than potentially winding up with a bio degree or natural science degree which really isn’t worth anything at the end of the day.

Starting life off with tons of debt makes little sense and doesn’t seem secure to me at all. The difference between having 100k+ saved instead of owing 50k (undergrad) or 100k (advanced schooling) is the difference between getting paid out $500 of interest a month and owing $500+ a month. The extra clients you name with a bachelor’s degree won’t add up to that much ;p.

Plus, after all those years of training if you had built up any sort of reputation, you could then take that money and start your own gym (read: personal training studio). You shouldn’t even need 6 years to get your own business up and running… if you are good I’d imagine you could build a solid reputation in 3 years (combination of looking the part and actually being good at what you do), especially if you built up your brand online. Now on the other hand if you get in massive debt from many years of schooling, good luck scraping the cash together to start your own place, let alone get a loan in our current economic state.

Furthermore, I would say that the common factor between Dr. Clay / CT / EC is not an advanced degree, but rather building up a brand online by producing content people wanted to read. The most successful authors on this site have all built up very specific brands via their content creation. Dr. Clay has positioned himself as a bodybuilding expert with articles on bringing up lagging body parts, offering physique critiques, and fat loss plans. CT is the performance mass guy, opting for articles that focus on min/maxing the process of building muscle and getting lean while making strength a priority. EC on the other hand went an entirely different direction and built a brand up for himself primarily with his rehab articles. Does EC have a DPT? Nope, and the readers don’t care - great content in front of an eager audience does not require letters.

While I’m sure CT’s studies on biomechanics were interesting, I think its a good wager that most of his methodologies stem from his o. lifting background combined with tons of experiments in the gym on his own time, not in the lab on his university’s time. Do you see CT sign his articles as Christian Thibeadeau, MS? Nope - that’s not his brand. We all recognize his brand as someone we trust (or at least invokes some curiosity as to what he has come up with next)… we don’t need the letters. Your clients will feel the same way once you build rapport with them.

10s of thousands of trainers have advanced degrees and none of us know them. Jillian Michaels (even if you hate her) is probably making more $ than any other trainer in the country at the moment and she doesn’t have a college degree.

tl;dr: If you want to be a trainer, a degree is a waste of money and time. #1 priority needs to be getting in a local gym, building a client base, learning the business, and making your own physique perfect. Once you have that all nailed down and are good at what you do, scale up either by starting your own place, branching out online, or both.[/quote]

You have made some valid points. I mentioned the chiropractor route simply because I’ve seen people who’ve done it and are wildly successful now. It’s not a bad thing to aim for, especially since treating people generates a lot income aside from PT.

At the end of the day PTing is a hard line of work to make a good income. I doubt most make over 60k which is pretty shitty by today’s standards. Also lets not act like Jillian Michaels is the norm, most personal trainers earn a paltry sum.

I disagree that a natural science degree is useless, it leaves the door opens for other career opportunities in case the PT route fails. In Canada school is not as expensive as it is in the US, an undergrad degree here is roughly 40k in tuition. Plus B.L.U. Ninja is a minority so he has several scholarship opportunities. I also really think you are under estimating how hard it is to successfully start and run a PT business. It’s also pretty damn hard to “build a brand online” IMO. I mean just look at this site, a lot of the people writing for this site 10 years ago aren’t really around today.

Yeah it’s possible to take the route you listed, but I would consider it high risk. Getting a serious degree will hedge his bets.

64

Also are there any significantly successful contributors on this site without a college degree?

65

Also I don’t know what a DPT is.

66

One more thing. Challer are you a PT?

67

[quote]therajraj wrote:
You have made some valid points. I mentioned the chiropractor route simply because I’ve seen people who’ve done it and are wildly successful now. It’s not a bad thing to aim for, especially since treating people generates a lot income aside from PT.

At the end of the day PTing is a hard line of work to make a good income. I doubt most make over 60k which is pretty shitty by today’s standards.[/quote]

I agree that PT is a hard line of work to make a good income. I am not sure where you pulled 60k from - way less than the average starting salary for college grads. Only a chemical engineer (or something similar) can hope to work for someone else right out of undergrad and pull in 60k a year to start. The average undergrad will start in the 30s.

[quote]
Also lets not act like Jillian Michaels is the norm, most personal trainers earn a paltry sum.[/quote]

Not sure how you interpreted that - I specifically said she was probably the highest paid trainer despite having no degree. I only brought her up as a counter point to you mentioning several trainers who are also not the norm.

[quote]
I disagree that a natural science degree is useless, it leaves the door opens for other career opportunities in case the PT route fails. In Canada school is not as expensive as it is in the US, an undergrad degree here is roughly 40k in tuition. Plus B.L.U. Ninja is a minority so he has several scholarship opportunities.[/quote]

Fair enough, but it depends what type. A B.S. in Physics or chemistry might have real world value, but then again this also doesn’t act as a qualifier either for most potential clients… so what was the point of getting the degree first again? You could always go back later if you decided training wasn’t your cup of tea.

[quote]
I also really think you are under estimating how hard it is to successfully start and run a PT business. It’s also pretty damn hard to “build a brand online” IMO. I mean just look at this site, a lot of the people writing for this site 10 years ago aren’t really around today.[/quote]

No offense, but look at who wrote the articles 10 years ago. Almost every article submitted to this site was authored by: TC, Chris Shugart, “The Editors”, Charles Poliquin, Cy Wilson, Dave Tate, Ian King, and John Berardi. All of these people are around today (aside from perhaps anonymous editors) and all went on to have long and illustrious careers in the strength world. Anyone who started online 10 years ago and stuck with it is big now.

I also realize that starting a gym is not super easy. That is why I suggest starting at a local gym, building up a reputation in your town as the go-to guy by getting great results for your clients, starting a blog and building up a local following (you don’t have to be an internet celebrity to get local business from the web), and saving money. If you spend 6 years collecting clients, references, and building yourself a great reputation (even if it is only local), and actually have money to rent out a cheap place (you can always start in small if you’ve got a client list ready)… then starting a gym will be easy.

If you show up at the bank with a degree and a business plan, no clients, no money, and no experience hoping to get some money to maybe succeed, then yes, that is highly risky.

I see my way as actually the safer bet. Here’s the thing… there are only two ways my plan ends: 1) person loves training and what they are doing, it fills them with enthusiasm and they are happy to work hard to get better at training, build their client base, and begin creating their online presence… they go on to do very well and have a 2) the person realizes a year or three into it that they don’t really like training. Fortunately, they’ve been saving their money so they can go to school and come out with no debt, and actually have a better idea what they want to do with their life and as such they don’t end up with a toothless biology degree.

Getting the degree first… you run the risk of getting a degree somewhat related to training, graduate only to realize training isn’t for you. Now you have a degree in something you aren’t interested in and are in a ton of debt, so you’re going to be forced into what ever job you can get to pay off said loans.

Of course, it would be different if it was free. If there’s debt involved I think work first degree later is a much safer option.

68

DPT = doctor of physical therapy, and I believe Dave Tate has no college degree, but I could be wrong about that.

69

Thank you for the inputs Raj and Challer.

Reading your posts, I can honestly say that Challer’s argument makes more sense, at least to me. I dont really see myself putting in 4 years of work in college, dragging myself everyday and hating it. I forgot to mention I hate school, well, the amount of unnecessary work that’s done really. And I would shoot myself if I had to go another 4 years to earn a degree that I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to because of the long process, when there’s all these trainers with no degrees doing quite well.

Not to mention there’s this guy walking around my gym with a nine month gut telling people how to lose weight. (looking the part, like Challer said would be crucial) (He’s not an exception either and I think most would agree).

My plan is to get in the industry as a trainer and build myself up from there. The route I’m thinking is, getting a diploma and certifications, get a job in a gym and save up. There’s a lot of respected trainers around and learning from them (internships) instead of just listening to hour long lectures IMO is a better, more practical way.

70

It used to be much better in the UK. Three years at university would generally cost you around $15k equivalent TOTAL (fees). You only have pay this off IF you are in work, AND earning above a certain amount. If you lose your job, you don’t have to pay.

So going to university here was no problem whatsoever. Now fees are climbing to 9k per year. Still, much cheaper than the US (it seems).

I made THE WORST fucking financial decision imaginable in life, when I took a professional studies loan to do a grad course in law. Then 2008 came and I found it too hard to get a job in that field.

Now, I’m paying so much money through my fucking nose, it hurts.

ANY students on this site, speak to someone who has been there and done it first, or some kind of financial advisor before you get shuffled into a deal that you’ll regret later on.

For example, I pay about �£50 PER MONTH only for my university loans (interest is miniscule) offered by the government basically.

BUT for this independent loan, its 10x that. I took the risk, and paid the price as I overvalued the impression I’d make on employers.

71

[quote]Bambi wrote:
The UK is upping fees to Ã?£9000 (about $15000) a year because the apparently the American system is better. Brilliant. I pay Ã?£3000 ($4500) in tuition a year plus about another 3k in accommodation food utilities etc. Most of my friends who studied in Scotland get free tuition though, but I didn’t get the course I wanted from there[/quote]

Which uni are you going to?

72

[quote]challer1 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
You have made some valid points. I mentioned the chiropractor route simply because I’ve seen people who’ve done it and are wildly successful now. It’s not a bad thing to aim for, especially since treating people generates a lot income aside from PT.

At the end of the day PTing is a hard line of work to make a good income. I doubt most make over 60k which is pretty shitty by today’s standards.[/quote]

I agree that PT is a hard line of work to make a good income. I am not sure where you pulled 60k from - way less than the average starting salary for college grads. Only a chemical engineer (or something similar) can hope to work for someone else right out of undergrad and pull in 60k a year to start. The average undergrad will start in the 30s.

[quote]
Also lets not act like Jillian Michaels is the norm, most personal trainers earn a paltry sum.[/quote]

Not sure how you interpreted that - I specifically said she was probably the highest paid trainer despite having no degree. I only brought her up as a counter point to you mentioning several trainers who are also not the norm.

[quote]
I disagree that a natural science degree is useless, it leaves the door opens for other career opportunities in case the PT route fails. In Canada school is not as expensive as it is in the US, an undergrad degree here is roughly 40k in tuition. Plus B.L.U. Ninja is a minority so he has several scholarship opportunities.[/quote]

Fair enough, but it depends what type. A B.S. in Physics or chemistry might have real world value, but then again this also doesn’t act as a qualifier either for most potential clients… so what was the point of getting the degree first again? You could always go back later if you decided training wasn’t your cup of tea.

[quote]
I also really think you are under estimating how hard it is to successfully start and run a PT business. It’s also pretty damn hard to “build a brand online” IMO. I mean just look at this site, a lot of the people writing for this site 10 years ago aren’t really around today.[/quote]

No offense, but look at who wrote the articles 10 years ago. Almost every article submitted to this site was authored by: TC, Chris Shugart, “The Editors”, Charles Poliquin, Cy Wilson, Dave Tate, Ian King, and John Berardi. All of these people are around today (aside from perhaps anonymous editors) and all went on to have long and illustrious careers in the strength world. Anyone who started online 10 years ago and stuck with it is big now.

I also realize that starting a gym is not super easy. That is why I suggest starting at a local gym, building up a reputation in your town as the go-to guy by getting great results for your clients, starting a blog and building up a local following (you don’t have to be an internet celebrity to get local business from the web), and saving money. If you spend 6 years collecting clients, references, and building yourself a great reputation (even if it is only local), and actually have money to rent out a cheap place (you can always start in small if you’ve got a client list ready)… then starting a gym will be easy.

If you show up at the bank with a degree and a business plan, no clients, no money, and no experience hoping to get some money to maybe succeed, then yes, that is highly risky.

I see my way as actually the safer bet. Here’s the thing… there are only two ways my plan ends: 1) person loves training and what they are doing, it fills them with enthusiasm and they are happy to work hard to get better at training, build their client base, and begin creating their online presence… they go on to do very well and have a 2) the person realizes a year or three into it that they don’t really like training. Fortunately, they’ve been saving their money so they can go to school and come out with no debt, and actually have a better idea what they want to do with their life and as such they don’t end up with a toothless biology degree.

Getting the degree first… you run the risk of getting a degree somewhat related to training, graduate only to realize training isn’t for you. Now you have a degree in something you aren’t interested in and are in a ton of debt, so you’re going to be forced into what ever job you can get to pay off said loans.

Of course, it would be different if it was free. If there’s debt involved I think work first degree later is a much safer option.[/quote]

50-60k is about the most a PT will EVER make man. Obviously there are exceptions. That’s why I brought it up. Most people who study something serious in college make much more than that during their career. Yeah 60k is GREAT just out of college.

The reason you do a degree first is because it’s a lot easier going to school not buried in debt. If you start PTing, take out a huge loan then end up failing you have nothing to fall back on. It’s lot easier going to school not already buried in debt. In Canada if you manage your money you can finish school with little to no debt.

They changed the format of this site, but you use to view a list of all the authors who have ever written for this site. There were TONS of different names listed before and you mentioned only the few that around today. I also think Dave Tate is a poor example seeing how he was an ELITE powerlifter and it’s pretty easy to have rep with elite totals.

Dude the thing about a degree is even if you do not like what you studied it’s perfectly possible to switch into something else during or after graduating (assuming you have good grades). Heck my sister’s roommates (and classmates) in dental school had majors unrelated to science (one was a history major and the other was an econ major).

Also a biology degree is just ONE example, there are several other good topics one can study.

73

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Thank you for the inputs Raj and Challer.

Reading your posts, I can honestly say that Challer’s argument makes more sense, at least to me. I dont really see myself putting in 4 years of work in college, dragging myself everyday and hating it. I forgot to mention I hate school, well, the amount of unnecessary work that’s done really. And I would shoot myself if I had to go another 4 years to earn a degree that I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to because of the long process, when there’s all these trainers with no degrees doing quite well.Not to mention there’s this guy walking around my gym with a nine month gut telling people how to lose weight. (looking the part, like Challer said would be crucial) (He’s not an exception either and I think most would agree).

My plan is to get in the industry as a trainer and build myself up from there. The route I’m thinking is, getting a diploma and certifications, get a job in a gym and save up. There’s a lot of respected trainers around and learning from them (internships) instead of just listening to hour long lectures IMO is a better, more practical way.[/quote]

Dude going to school is REAL LIFE. Most people who get little education post high school are generally unsuccessful (there are exceptions).

4 years is really not a long time over the course of a lifetime, it only seems long to you because you are a teenager. Trust me when I say college goes by fast. When you get older time passes much quicker than when you are a kid.

I would consider the route you are choosing a very high risk move. Yeah we all hate studying, but that’s life. I tell you now, most people I know who chose not to go to university after high school are regretting what they’re doing now. Most of what challer has said will be very difficult to pull off.

74

Pretty sure Dave Tate has a degree in something… It’s too bad being a teacher is such a shitty profession in most states. In Canada it’s a pretty fulfilling career choice. As an example, in Ontario a first year teacher makes around 50k/year with good benefits. A guy I know who lives in Buffalo says teachers make 28k/year there starting out. $28 000/year is fucking NOTHING.

75

And I agree, a lot of people may have dreams and aspirations of saying “fuck it” to university and paving their own way. In my own experiences, these are the people who are in their mid-20s with no good job prospects, living with their parents and doing the same shit. I don’t regret going to university, it gives me far more options. And if you’re willing to bust your ass you can get a student loan paid off fairly quickly (at least in Canada).

76

[quote]SlothGuy wrote:
And I agree, a lot of people may have dreams and aspirations of saying “fuck it” to university and paving their own way. In my own experiences, these are the people who are in their mid-20s with no good job prospects, living with their parents and doing the same shit. I don’t regret going to university, it gives me far more options. And if you’re willing to bust your ass you can get a student loan paid off fairly quickly (at least in Canada).[/quote]

Exactly.

Sorry B.L.U. Ninja, if you care about making decent coin, you’re going to have to go to university even if you hate school. That’s life.

77

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
The UK is upping fees to Ã??Ã?£9000 (about $15000) a year because the apparently the American system is better. Brilliant. I pay Ã??Ã?£3000 ($4500) in tuition a year plus about another 3k in accommodation food utilities etc. Most of my friends who studied in Scotland get free tuition though, but I didn’t get the course I wanted from there[/quote]

Which uni are you going to?[/quote]

York. I’m considering a postgrad course but the fees are rumoured to be going up to £12k in tuition for a taught masters and there’s no way I’m getting a bank to loan me that sort of money.

78

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

The higher ed system in the US is an absolute disgrace.[/quote]

Even though I work for a college, I agree with this 100%.[/quote]

Lol! I’m sure your proximity to the higher ed system only better illuminates its faults.

I find it sad really. Education is meant to “break the fetters of oppression” and in fact it just creates more of them.[/quote]

Good post Maschy.

The whole model here in America now is to go into massive debt to get the best degree you can to work SALARY for the best employer that you can… In other words, just shut up, keep your head down and work for “the MAN”. And, “oh yeah, I’m gonnna need you to come in on… Saturday… MmmmKaaay?.. Riiight”. No Overtime on Saturday, though - you’re SALARY. If you’re lucky you’ll get a bonus. People do this because they feel LUCKY to have a job.

When I got out of prison, I got into the electrical apprenticeship (a five year program that’s FREE - I even got PAID to go to school) when I was 22. By my THIRD year, I was already making more money than most of my friends who were in massive debt with college degrees.

I did that for a decade and then got into the mortgage business and used that capital to leverage ownership in several other businesses and buy a bunch of real estate that cash flows very nicely - even after property values took a hit.

The role of the small business owner here in America is being filled by people from OTHER COUNTRIES who grew up NOT drinking the cool-aid! Tell me how a person can immigrate here from Korea with 20K that their family saved up for for DECADES and start a successful small business. NOT speaking the fucking LANGUAGE half the time! And they are MILLIONAIRES in ten or fifteen years, but for regular AMERICANS with the benefit of being CITIZENS here, it simply doesn’t even OCCUR to them to take HALF the money they would have spent on college and start a business with it.

It BOGGLES my poor little mind. Keep drinking the cool-aid, though - let me know how it works out as the economy worsens, unemployment rises and you need a fucking MASTERS degree to even compete for a “good job” (oh wait…)[/quote]

I know, right.

People who work for others - policemen, firefighters, teachers, construction workers - all suckers and losers. Not to mention a whole slew of other workers who make good money in advertising, medicine, law and so on, who work for others - all losers too.

My cousin who makes $105,000 at age 25 working for MTV - sucker/loser who went to college for a communications degree with a specialization in public relations. All my friends and acquaintances that went to Stern School of Business at NYU - dumbasses and suckers! Hot shot lawyers making six figures a year (and in some cases seven) - suckers! Respectable teachers paving the way for future generations earning a salary - suckers making a salary!

And yeah, every eighteen year old has the resources, attributes, and/or innovation to start a successful small business - a bunch of Mark Zuckerbergs in the making.

And yeah, all immigrants running cleaners, restaurants, pizza shops, and 99 cents stores are living high on the hog and basking in wealth.

79

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Anyone here that went to a Community College or only took 1-2 year courses that are absolutely satisfied with their current work and income?[/quote]

I know quite a few people with associates degrees who went on to become firefighters and port authority cops that are happy as pigs in shit!

80

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Thank you for the inputs Raj and Challer.

Reading your posts, I can honestly say that Challer’s argument makes more sense, at least to me. I dont really see myself putting in 4 years of work in college, dragging myself everyday and hating it. I forgot to mention I hate school, well, the amount of unnecessary work that’s done really. And I would shoot myself if I had to go another 4 years to earn a degree that I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to because of the long process, when there’s all these trainers with no degrees doing quite well.Not to mention there’s this guy walking around my gym with a nine month gut telling people how to lose weight. (looking the part, like Challer said would be crucial) (He’s not an exception either and I think most would agree).

My plan is to get in the industry as a trainer and build myself up from there. The route I’m thinking is, getting a diploma and certifications, get a job in a gym and save up. There’s a lot of respected trainers around and learning from them (internships) instead of just listening to hour long lectures IMO is a better, more practical way.[/quote]

Fine…but if your taking the prerequisites for a science/math related degree keep doing well on them even if you aren’t planning on going to uni for a science related degree. Keep your options open in case you change your mind.

I don’t know much about it, but isn’t PT something you can do on the side of studying? Not every business requires you to give all of your attention to it right from the get go. Start it off on the side maybe, and then expand when you finish your degree [or I guess if you see business is doing so well it makes more sense not to expand right away].

What if you are a shitty trainer? Or you do know what you’re doing but can’t communicate it well to your clients because of bad people skills. Not to mention factors out of your control. I say go for the degree, and start you’re PTing on the side if you can, and if you’re good [as in getting results] get more serious. You don’t have to rush into things; test the waters first.

This isn’t an argument against challer or Raj, who I think made good points. I’m just suggesting a middle-ground that could get the best of both worlds.