6’3", 183#. But I did Physique, and wasn’t as conditioned as those other guys.
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I’ve been hypothetically off roids for several years. I call myself a Daywalker.
#steroidsr4losers
Seriously,
Roids work and they’re fucking powerful when used properly along with one knowing how to eat and train and has a good genetic response. People using large amounts don’t risk their health and go to the extent of pinning shit in their fucking calves and biceps when they run out of places to pin for nothing.
Have any of you even hypothetically tried pinning 3ccs into your delts before the ester from the previous pin has been fully absorbed? It hurts like fuck. It may leak and you may end up getting the area inflamed which may result in systemic inflammation.
Then there are dumbasses in the steroid forum who are either allergic to certain esters(the oil the steroid is attached to) or have bought tainted UGL shit but persist in using their gear despite having low grade fevers for a month or more. I’m not making this up.
Which brings me to the problems with buying shit from even legit large international distributers. Some of them underdose certain batches, which sucks but it’s not that bad. Some purposefully OVERDOSE the gear they’re selling, which is why you should always get your gear lab tested. I can name you one which I’ve hypothetically sent for testing and found out their gear is overdosed. But they have really good customer service so I hypothetically continued using them.
Then you have shitty ones who do shit like give you nandrolone(deca) instead of the expensive shit like primo Some of these fuckers literally make the stuff in their basements. At least the large, legit suppliers rent actual facilities or get actual approved drug manufacturers to custom make their shit in certain countries where this is legal or they bribed their way into obtaining a permit.
If you are highly susceptible to the side effects of deca, you’re not going to have a good time for a loooooog time. One might say you’re going to miss out on a lot of happy endings.
My point is that it’s always a risk buying gear if you can’t get real pharma. And even with real pharma, lots of stuff isn’t even human grade. Tren, for example, is only approved for animal use and animal grade stuff isn’t manufactured with the same guidelines as the stuff for human use.
But people are willing to take the risk. They wouldn’t do this if they weren’t getting a good enogh return for such a risk.
This doesn’t mean the noob doing a dbol and test cycle is going to turn into Ronnie Coleman in 3 months. There’s a lot of exaggeration and misinformation on both sides of the argument.
#imadeallthisup #natty4life
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No, never remotely came close to that kind of dosing. Though I’ve had bad injection site reactions from sustanon of which was prescribed to me at the time.
HPLC testing
Agreed, I don’t feel comfortable talking about this either. I think anabolic steroid use ought to be more “out in the open” to an extent, not due to personal bias, but due to the unrealistic expectations current sociocultural trends are imparting upon children, teenagers and adults alike. The new generation of “tik tok teens” does appear to be driving a fairly young demographic towards PED’s, and I’d never recommend young people indulge.
“But unreal, isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black”. Yup, I’m aware I’m not perfect; there are certain health ailments of which dosing slightly higher than what I’m prescribed appears to help with. At the same time I probably need to deal with my vested insecurities, look for the emotional root as to why I feel the need to look a certain way as opposed to using various tools to reach a certain level of athletic prowess when my body isn’t designed for moving heavy weights around.
I still look in the mirror and see that scraggly 80lb 12 year old kid despite being more than twice the size I was at the time. It’s interesting, as throughout my entire life I was always told I wouldn’t be able to do things. “You’ll never be able to have a normal social life”, “you’ll never be able to lift weights again, it’ll lead to devastating consequences”, “you might not be able to sustain a relationship”, “you’ll need support for the rest of your life”, “you’ll always be small, that’s how you’re built”. Some of these engrained ideologies were enforced by adults, otherwise it was typical high school bullying and the likes. As a result I harbour engrained mentalities, some of which are no longer relevant as I’ve pushed and pushed to prove I could do whatever I set my mind to despite numerous setbacks. This worked to an extent, though I did require some level of support for certain endeavours.
Unfortunately being told you can’t do something over and over again growing up leads to one harbouring fallacious mentalities. I’d never recommend the sport of bodybuilding or AAS use to anyone. Hypothetically Anabolic steroids (in the 2-300mg/wk range, or 233mg testosterone equivalent) have allowed me for whatever reason to live in far less pain/discomfort than I would otherwise be in on a daily basis (to note this level of daily discomfort sometimes requires opiate pain medication for reference). Also lessens overall daily fatigue, @Beyond_Beyond has anecdotes here that back up what I’m stating. Unfortunately whatever comes up must come back down, living with 2-3x natural male physiology isn’t sustainable. It’s not addictive per se, but there’s certainly a psychological and physical “comfort factor”, knowing “hey, life is going to be a looooot easier for the next few months”.
I don’t think AAS use should be rewarded, and it’s highly unfortunate this kind of drug use is indirectly being encouraged due to social benefits incurred, athletic sponsorships etc. It isn’t the steroid use itself that irks me, rather the paradigm associated with it wherein users need to be dishonest in order to succeed financially and socially. Societal outlooks need to change. I don’t think we need to accept steroids with open arms but we need to realise being a professional athlete isn’t a health based endeavour, and we need to acknowledge this aspect of society for the better or worse is far more prevalent than we think it is.
I think there’s a time and a place for AAS, and an appropriate time would be for the treatment of medical illnesses and/or those who are severely underweight for whatever reason (if it can’t be adequately fixed without intervention), for postoperative management of severe trauma, burn wounds or to retain muscle mass when one is required to be sedentary for long stretches of time. Short stature is also an interesting concept. I’ve seen studies wherein height velocities, predicted final adult height and eventual adult height of children given a small amount of oxandrolone prior to pubertal induction increase dramatically. A tiny bit of oxandrolone under close supervision of a physician for a short duration of time is arguably safer than large dosages of GH over years for idiopathic short stature.
As to recreational use… I’m not against it if it’s done within reason, but I think more ought to look into why they’re using. Many men do use to cover up vested insecurities, going to therapy and ascertaining the emotional root driving one to use would be more beneficial than covering up the physical desire to be big and strong with these very powerful drugs as it will probably bite you twenty or thirty years down the line. Problem is it’s probably going to be very difficult to find a therapist who understands the dynamics and behaviours associated with steroid use. Sometimes you’ll still decide to use, and I suppose that’s okay; each to their own, though I am of the opinion a family man with kids who haven’t graduated high school yet probably shouldn’t be blasting large dosages for risk he will miss seeing his kids growing up/graduating. It’s certainly not good for you, and there does appear to be a minute fraction of users who for whatever cannot remain adequate composed when on the juice. It should be noted ANY activity that negatively effects friendships, familial relations, work ethic and academic integrity isn’t okay. There’s a line that needs to be drawn when something affects interpersonal relations and office conduct. Listening to music is fine, blasting death metal 24/7 as to ignore your boss at work is not; you’d find that out pretty quickly when you get sacked 
I think a framework as is seen in some countries OTC might work. Certain drugs (nandrolone, primobolan and testosterone) can be sold OTC at the discretion of a pharmacist. There could be age caps. UGL demand would go to down as you can now get some of the best shit over the counter. Obviously the aim of the game would be to discourage use through logical, non-biased and informative discussion between a pharmacist and customer. Access to physician assisted monitoring would be mandatory yadayadayada
#unrealsweirdthoughts
Anyone else have any thoughts regarding the morality behind PED use @brickhead @dt79 @The_Mighty_Stu @Frank_C @RT_Nomad
Why have I been posting so much recently? I’m on Easter holidays, everyone from college went home; so I did too and I’m bored senseless.
As to anti doping in sport, clarence0 made a good video on this of which I agree with.
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I think they’re certainly linked but I don’t care. People can do whatever they want. I rarely following any bodybuilding or powerlifting stuff anymore. It’s boring. If anyone has strong feelings about this, just don’t support the roided bodybuilders. They wouldn’t have gotten bigger every year if fans didn’t want to see mass monsters.
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I wanted to take pics because I’m dieting and look better right now but I can’t today, so here are pics from a week ago, 6’1’’ 187 lbs (I started my gym journey at 158 lbs, 9 years ago)
I’m lean but I’m far from being shredded, so if I were to go on stage it would be like 170 - 175 lbs or even less (I hold fat on my lower body)
Now I’m sure I can and will gain more muscle naturally but no way in hell it’s gonna be 40 lbs, Jesus I’d be over the moon with 10 in a few years
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The fan base is a fickle group… they want freaky but not too freaky.
I love how certain people will scream about someone being a fake natty when the person in question has never answered the question either way. But yet they will damn the person for not clarifying their status.
Yet they will nut hug someone who has comes out and openly admit it and talks about their cycles…
I can’t make heads or tails on the whole dynamic
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Let’s see Kai Greene as example
He was natural here in 1999 and weighed 189 lbs
He weighed 256 lbs in Arnold Classic 2016
That’s about extra 67 lbs of pure muscle on a 5’9-10 frame
Important to note that he probably also took HGH and Insulin looking at his gut and his face which exhibits a strong case of acromegaly
If no growth and insulin were involved he’d probably be 20-30 lbs lighter
So the question is what kind of steroids and other PEDs is the guy taking? All of them? Or what do you consider to be the moderate/average stacks in this case?
What do you consider as a starting point? An untrained individual can have one shit diet with no protein and one can have a good diet with tons of protein, one can have a good physical base from sports or his job, one can be completely sedentary, all of these can affect your starting muscle mass/bodyfat.
So many assumptions need to be answered before we even ask the question
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A discussion of this would lead to a total derail of this thread. Plus I plan on never again discussing anything pertaining to serious life matters on this forum again.
Interesting note
Here’s a study looking at the body composition of natural vs AAS using bodybuilders. The comparison is slightly more modest as opposed to comparing the natural bodybuilder with a Mr Olympia competitor, though dosages still reach absurd territories (mentions nandrolone dosing reached up to 7000mg/wk)
The difference in lean mass was found to be, on average (median) 11kg. Fat mass was simultaneously significantly reduced.
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My opinion starts and ends with: use of PEDs is morally fine, providing one doesn’t benefit, in an official way, over ‘others’ when it is against the rules, and widely known and followed by ‘others’.
If the first condition is met and second condition isn’t clear, then it’s assumed it’s immoral (MLB | some use, it’s not clear what percentage do and likely the majority do not)
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Pretty much my opinion on it also…
Sorry, I just couldn’t read plain English. I read “morality” as mortality.
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I don’t even get the “putting yourself at risk of dying” thing. I don’t believe it’s a “risk vs return” issue.
We all like to watch extreme stuff. That’s why we watch car racing and all sorts of shit that put people in mortal danger.
No one ever told Jackie Chan to stop doing crazy stunts back when he wasn’t earning much since HK only had a population of around 5 million and the highest box office record in the 90s was like 5 million USD and probably half of that in the 80s while the cost of living was similar to the US, with property prices almost double. Even international distribution rights were sold off for peanuts to distributors at that time.
Can anyone seriously tell me that jumping off a mountain onto a hot air balloon without a wire or parachute in Armor of God was less dumb than using lots of steroids to compete? He could have filmed the same scene without actually doing the real stunt with carefully planned camera angles, a safe location for the landing with high powered fans simulating the wind along with good editing.
But, no, the fucker decided to film the whole thing with multiple wide angles just to show his fans that he really did it. And they loved him for this.
He did 3 takes of this scene in Project A because he was unsatisfied with one take since he bounced off the second parapet and did one extra take to make sure the scene came out well. You can see 2 of the takes in the movie. Just look at the different ways he lands:
How the fuck is this man still alive?
This is a man who’s not only a self-confessed adrenaline junkie, but was literally willing to die for his fans. People admire him for this. They don’t call him a dumbass or post silly shit on message boards.
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Whether it’s stunts or steroids or sports or what ever, it’s just a matter of whether you live or die.
If you live people say “He gave it his all! Amazing!” and you’re “an inspiration to millions…”.
But if you die people go “Fuckin’ dumbass. Shoulda known better…” as if they could have done the same but are smarter and would have lived.
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Love how @dt79 shoe horns an ode to Jackie Chan in a roid thread
Legend!
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Yup.
Mild doses, you can only get slightly above natural, no matter how hard you train and how much you eat. I speak from experience.
The average untrained dude walks around at about 175 with about 40 pounds of skeletal muscle and can double that with a few years of proper eating and training, to 80 pounds. To say that he can hop on gear and double it again, to 160 pounds of muscle, is silly.
Running several cycles of 1,000+ mgs of gear a week and eating and training well, IDK arbitrary number 150% of what you could have achieved naturally. And that’s the serious upper limit of what’s within most people’s grasp after years of use.
Definitely not double. Double natural is achievable, but you’re talking Mr. Olympia champion, shredded at 290-300 pounds. Extreme drugs, dedication, and risks to get there for just a very short while and definitely not sustainable.
I don’t believe the best muscle builders aren’t in bodybuilding, natural or open. There are 7 billion people on this planet. That means there is a wide variety of life circumstances, characteristics, and inclinations amongst them.
There are people with great muscle-building genes and lifting potential who aren’t athletic.
There are athletic men who are subpar in the gym.
There are men with great genes who cannot function in institutionalized environments, cannot follow rules or commands, aren’t team players, and cannot handle jerks saying mean things and forcing them to do what they don’t want to (that’s what a coach is). I can think of a few IFBB pros and high-level bodybuilder or “influencers” who are pr were dysfunctional, even if they were or are athletic.
Some sports require a good amount of strength and muscle. Others don’t.
Some genetically gifted people are lazy or maladaptive. Hence there are highly intelligent or physically gifted unemployed, mentally ill, and homeless people. I’ve known such people. One guy I befriended in high school who likely could be an IFBB pro has never worked a day in his life since we worked together buttering bagels at that age.
You’re not gonna find better at building muscle and genetically blessed shape and insertions than the WNBF.
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Agree, that would be a silly claim. But it’s not what the OP said. Rather, the assertion was “…steroids allow you to build about twice as much muscle as you’d be able to build drug-free.” Your hypothetical natty is capable of building 40# of muscle drug-free. The OP is contending that, by juicing, the same individual could build 80# of muscle–a not-so-silly contention IMO.
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Yeah, my first impression of the assertion was “That doesn’t seem unreasonable”.
Steroids, to some extent, also seem to extend that adult window in which a man can be in a “prime” state.
Using n=1,myself- from late teens to about mid/late 30’s I was in the top section of my own parabola. High energy, good recovery, decent muscle building/retention capacity. Let’s say that was 17-37, so about 20 years.
Now throw in TRT, which I am not using, and look at what that does. No longer on that slope heading downward, are they?
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All of these qualifiers are true, but they just mean that in addition to genetically gifted people who didn’t go to bodybuilding in order to pursue more financially rewarding sports, there are people who just didn’t go into any sports at all.
As you said - 7 billion people on the planet, and the vast majority of them will go their entire lives without ever hearing of the WNBF - so how would the best genetics for building muscle and shape end up there?
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