This!
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It’s possible, albeit highly unlikely. Myostatin deficiencies and the like (partial mutations exist) can allow one to accrue far more muscle mass comparative to the avg Joe. Some people with lipodystrophy look buff as fuck (but they can’t exercise and die young lol).
When I see a 5’9 "natural pro bodybuilder’’ with nineteen inch arms at a BF% of 6% I’m highly skeptical. I’ve seen men with great genetics make the best of it. They look fantastic, far surpassing the physiques of those with similar statistics. But a genetic threshold exists, to reach that “freak status” level size reminiscent of a professional bodybuilder whilst remaining lean… I don’t think it can be done.
If there was a way of proving natural validity I’d put down literally all my assets and future accrued assets as a bet against Mike O Hearn being natural.
There are plenty of natural bodybuilders and athletes who look phenomenal. @BrickHead @The_Mighty_Stu @T3hPwnisher come to mind on this forum specifically. But to look like Mike O Hearn, Helmut Strebl, Chris Bumstead and the likes naturally… Please forgive me if I’m skeptical.
I find it difficult to believe natural men today are surpassing size and strength parameters harboured by cream of the genetic crop golden age bodybuilders who admit to steroid use.
Natural physiology dictates a genetic limit must exist. These guys just get bigger and bigger, plenty of them look relatively normal as kids/teenagers and blow the fuck up over a matter of three or four years. I’m skeptical as hell when I see this.
Is it possible for natural strongmen to squat 1000lbs? I don’t know
Louis Cyr (old time strongman) lifted over 500lbs from the ground to his shoulder at 19 years of age. He was able to walk around with almost 2000kg attached to his back, pressed 273lbs with ONE HAND… But he wasn’t aesthetically pleasing in the slightest. Is it possible a one in a billion genetic freak like this might squat 1000lbs naturally? Perhaps, I don’t know.
I could be wrong regarding my vested beleifs, although I don’t believe I am. That being said if I’m honest I don’t find this issue particularly pressing… Who cares? So long as they aren’t marketing unrealistic expectations towards children/teenagers I couldn’t give two hoots who is natural and who isn’t.
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You should be considering this likely doesn’t exist.
You’re not exactly defining freak status. The men I posted pictures of ARE freaks—highly disciplined, hard working, intelligent, and likely natural freaks!
You should be because they’re not.
I’ve been on this Jihad for a bit now, but another of those “no true scotsman” sorta things here: if the top bodybuilders had the best muscle building genetics, there’s a fair chance they WOULDN’T be bodybuilders. Primarily because there are FAR more lucrative ventures out there for those kinds of genetics.
And I get it: there’s more to professional athletics than just being muscular, BUT, the dudes that have the best genetics for putting on muscle are typically going to excel in athletics as a result of said musculature unless they’re like Bob Sapp and just lack the ability to move laterally.
Which is just a long winded way to say that, just like how the strongest humans on earth AREN’T competing in powerlifting, there’s a fair chance that the people with the best muscle building genetics aren’t competing in bodybuilding.
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Thanks for compliment, though I’ve been on medicinal REAL TRT for 20 years. So who knows what status I have. I never used non-medicinal amounts EVER!
100 mg of T cyp per week or two packets of Androgel or Testim (10 g) a day. Never ever more.
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Similarly, no one my height (much less shorter than me) can dunk a basketball unless he’s on da joose. Just not possible from a human anatomy/physiology perspective.
Well, that’s not quite fair. It’s more an issue of assessing the probabilities of competing hypotheses regarding an observed event. Suppose I set out to flip a coin 100 times, and it comes up Heads on 75 of them. I have to choose between two conclusions: Either I can conclude I just witnessed an unbelievably unlikely event involving a fair coin, or that I witnessed a highly likely event involving a rigged coin. In this scenario, the smart money is on ‘rigged.’
It’s not quite fair because I’m referring to those that take an illogical stance vs your far more logical one.
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Speaking of genetic “natural” freaks, I saw a very young Dexter Jackson win a national qualifier in Jacksonville, FL as a bantamweight. He looked big, full, and very sharp. He had some of the smallest joints I have ever seen. I truly don’t believe he had yet been exposed to AAS’s. He defeated many on AAS’s that day. I saw a genetic freak.
Right. Someone simply saying, “I don’t think top natural competitors are natural,” while not taking into account that such men usually compete at least once per year with blood and lie-detector testing. Can these be scammed? Yes! However it’s disingenuous to imply that maybe… just maybe… there are natural freaks who simply don’t want to use steroids and for whatever reason couldn’t or failed to or didn’t want to use their freak genetics for some other endeavor.
It’s difficult to define. But see it and you’ll know what I’m talking about.
We are referring to that male (or female) who walks by and LOOKS composed in Photoshop. Lean, dry, vascular, but at the same time has the proportions of a superhero in a cartoon. Everything looks inflated, obscenely full. How can he be this large with such a low bf% given the metabolic/endocrine manifestations that tap in when one reaches a certain threshold?
I’ve been to bodybuilding competitions (pro, untested) these guys look like FREAKS… like live action, shredded depictions of the Michelin man… Like upside down, jacked Doritos with two very large, muscular legs at the base.
Like… maybe the ability to retain a couple/few pounds of mass when very lean, but otherwise I wouldn’t bet on testosterone replacement as being the reason as to why you’ve achieved such feats. you’ve worked very hard for decades on end, if someone ends up using “TRT” as an argument against you it’s a piss poor argument. Plenty of sedentary old dudes are on Androgel (10g/day) and still look like shit. You’ve used TRT to treat a deficiency, as have I (though I’ve also tried non medicinal amounts/low dosages of synthetic analogues; albeit not comparable to the amounts people use to “cycle”)
All the more power to you! Better off without it in my opinion. There are two vested ideologies that prevail relating to the gear. There’s the “gymrat user” crowd who thinks the negative effects are related to some political conspiracy (they’re right to an extent) and that they’re totally safe. Then there’s the mainstream media/avg Joe rhetoric of which states one shot of testosterone will lead to irreversible cardomyopathy, fits of rage and delusional paranoia, shrunken genitalia and more. The truth is likely somewhere in between. There’s clearly an association between use and psychiatric pathology, concomitant recreational drug use and more. Say roid rage is a myth? There have bee PLENTY of short tempered guys over in the Pharma section who we’ve seen come and go. Not saying it’s a direct causation, though I’ve anecdotally noted in real life some of the heavy juicers seem perpetually agitated.
Granted I don’t really care what people use so long as they aren’t blasting grams on end without having the slightest idea as to the they’re inflicting long term and so long as they aren’t trying to get me involved with various drug related regiments because I want nothing to do with what other people take.
Does juice help one dunk a basketball? I thought this was largely genetic. I’m aware it’ll increase power output and anaerobic capacity but I think if you’re 5’5 from a dunking perspective it ain’t gonna happen unless you’re walking on stilts.
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Brian Whitacre, who’s 5’9” and competes in the 160’s. I believe he’s natural. Has he abstained from steroids all his life? Beats me. I don’t think he has used.
And just what is so unbelievable about such a man considering his God-given proportioned, full-appearing musculature that he enhances through hard work and sacrifice and brains?
What I’m suggesting is that many (most?) people in this debate are engaging informally in the process I laid out above, ie, they are in fact approaching the issue logically (although granted, it is likely they would be unable to explicate that logic).
That being said, I am happy to acknowledge that there are plenty of discussants who engage in the first process I (jokingly) referred to, that being ‘If someone is more accomplished than I, it is only because s/he cheated.’ This sort of thinking evidences not the probabilistic process I laid out above, but rather one dominated by an emotional state shaped by feelings of inadequacy.
Fully understood. Again: I’m not discussing those people. I take no umbrage with those that are logical: no issue with those employing the fallacy mentioned.
I feel we are in violent agreement with each other on the matter.
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Wow, cool topic, glad I noticed -lol
I’ve always held that there are so many variables in terms of what “is possible”, BUT having been around a while now, and seen and known plenty of geared and natty competitors, I find it’s difficult to ever conclude any actual percentage of benefit as a hard rule to adhere to.
I’ve also known plenty of top natural competitors who the average gym goer (who had no clue how much he doesn’t know, doesn’t do, doesn’t push himself) will quickly dismiss as being “on the sauce.”
Plenty of people who don’t know any better might look at my old pics and incorrectly assume I was using something, but of course the actual height/contest weights easily show the huge discrepancy between myself and an IFBB pro of similar height (Jay cutler?-lol)
Oh, and that article about natural bodybuilding that was run here a while back was a joke. I competed as a WNBF pro and judged shows for multiple federations for over a decade and while you might occasionally come across some folks always trying to cheat (I know of a couple who were busted at shows I judged), it’s not as rampant as some wanna be informed authors would have you think.
S
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Well there is data demonstrating prior AAS use permenantly alters satellite cell morphology. There may be a permeant advantage to using, even briefly. Though I somehow doubt the modest cycle some guy ran ten years ago is going to catapult him to the top of natural bodybuilding.
I could believe this too. He looks amazing, the pinnacle of natural bodybuilding. Unfortunately be it due to social media influence or unrealistic expectations force fed to the masses through Hollywood and the likes many appear disillusioned. You’d be surprised as to how many kids think they can look like Brian Whitacre by going to the gym for six months.
Got into a argument with a couple kids back in the day. Have a family friend who was 120lbs soaking wet at 5’10. The crowd I was conversing with at the time were somehow of the belief this family friend could bulk up to a muscular 220lbs witthin three months if he “lived in the gym”. This was a while back, I was perhaps fourteen and I was stating “not… even… with… steroids…”. To which I was called out for being an idiot with comments alongside “you don’t understand how hard some people work”
Meanwhile I’d spent the last few years bulking up from 80lbs to 130 by eating virtually everything in sight (still light, but a hell of a good job comparative to where I’d started).
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I didn’t put it correctly. I think he’s lifetime natural. @unreal24278
Spud Webb was 5’7”.
It also needs to be distinctly noted comparing the average “gear user” to IFBB pros for reference is inaccurate as 99% of those who have used or use gear look NOTHING like a competitive bodybuilder, let alone an IFBB pro mr Olympia competitor.
To step on that stage in the mens open division takes more than “steroids”. You need crash dieting, absurd bulking/cutting regiments, insulin, human growth hormone, god knows what else. At that level of extreme, anything goes.
Rather the average dedicated gym goer with good genetics using tren will in my opinion blow most natural bodybuilders out of the water in terms of aesthetic appearance (on average as opposed to the window of time when you step on stage), even if they aren’t as big or lack proportion. The steroid user might lose a show due to improper proportions and whatnot, but that “cut, grainy, dry, 3-D” look is imo quite difficult to replicate 24/7 as a natural when dieting down.
But then again, trenbolone wrecks havoc on physical and mental health and wellbeing for most, there’s an obvious payoff here.
IMO–an opinion which, I am happy to admit, is not worth all that much, certainly not as much as that of @The_Mighty_Stu’s or @RT_Nomad’s–his physique seems achievable by a natty with top-tier genetics. So, given that he competes in tested federations, and that no one has posted a pic of him in the gym bathroom shooting up slin, I believe it too.
Getting back to the original topic–he’s 5’9" with a stage weight of 165# or so. Question: How much does a 5’9" top-tier IFBB pro weigh onstage? Because I would argue that Whitacre would weigh that much if he had elected to go that route.
Spud?
