Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning

Pharma
366

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]IdolHands wrote:

[quote]I don’t want to find about juice connections but how & where do so many get the anti-aromatase you mentioned like Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg. I mean give some sort of hint to help out like an url from some third party server or whatever. I’m lost on that.
[/quote]

Nolva and Clomid are not anti-aromatase fyi.[/quote]

Okay Anti-estrogens. Is there a book underground or above ground that spells this information out in an outlined logical fashion? The forum is super but it just goes round and round and round to the point that it makes your head spin.

In a previous post I was answered with:

  1. I would seriously be willing to bet $500 (heck maybe even a $1,000) that the Urologist will be of no help. Do a quick search for urologist in this forum and see how many have been helpful to those here. You need to find a local HRT doc. Have you read the finding a doc sticky? Have you called around to any local compounding pharmacies and asked for a referral?

  2. 200mg a week is crazy - and will drive your estradiol through the roof killing any possibility of symptom improvement. Have you read the injection protocol sticky? Do you know what your body does with excess T? like aromatase excess T to Estradiol. What do you think massive amounts of estrogen are going to do to you →

So what is the difference between anti-aromatase and anti-estrogen? Feel free to leave an url. But this stuff is Greek to me and the doctors don’t seem to know squat either when they prescribe T.
[/quote]

The difference is simple. Products like Nolvadex and Clomid are classified as SERMs or Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators and are a class of compounds that act on the estrogen receptor. A characteristic that distinguishes these substances from pure receptor agonists and antagonists is that their action is different in various tissues, thereby granting the possibility to selectively inhibit or stimulate estrogen-like action in various tissues.

AI or aromatase inhibitors are different. Aromatase is an enzyme that synthesizes estrogen. Aromatase inhibitors block the synthesis of estrogen. This lowers the estrogen level.

That’s a very very basic break down, but an important distinction.

367

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]IdolHands wrote:

[quote]I don’t want to find about juice connections but how & where do so many get the anti-aromatase you mentioned like Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg. I mean give some sort of hint to help out like an url from some third party server or whatever. I’m lost on that.
[/quote]

Nolva and Clomid are not anti-aromatase fyi.[/quote]

Okay Anti-estrogens. Is there a book underground or above ground that spells this information out in an outlined logical fashion? The forum is super but it just goes round and round and round to the point that it makes your head spin.

In a previous post I was answered with:

  1. I would seriously be willing to bet $500 (heck maybe even a $1,000) that the Urologist will be of no help. Do a quick search for urologist in this forum and see how many have been helpful to those here. You need to find a local HRT doc. Have you read the finding a doc sticky? Have you called around to any local compounding pharmacies and asked for a referral?

  2. 200mg a week is crazy - and will drive your estradiol through the roof killing any possibility of symptom improvement. Have you read the injection protocol sticky? Do you know what your body does with excess T? like aromatase excess T to Estradiol. What do you think massive amounts of estrogen are going to do to you →

So what is the difference between anti-aromatase and anti-estrogen? Feel free to leave an url. But this stuff is Greek to me and the doctors don’t seem to know squat either when they prescribe T.
[/quote]

Actually read this: SERM and AI Sticky - Pharma - Forums - T Nation

368

Hi everyone I am looking for some opinions, I am 36 yrs old, 5’ 10" , 182 lbs, 12%bf. I spent years in the Army with 2nd Bat Rangers, so i have been physically fit for about ten years… I have been out for a few years now and I am lifting 4 days a week trying to bulk up, quite a change for a Ranger that lives and dies by cardio.

Have been doing a westside program for last couple of months, I eat extremely clean 1.5 times body weight protein intake and double weight in carbs. Thinking of running my first cycle as 250 mg wk of cypionate, nolvadex wk 1 40-50mg/daily, wk 2-4 20-25mg/daily. Clomid day 1 300mg, day 2-11 100mg, day 12-21 50mg. Bench 210, squat 300, deadlift 300.

I took a bullet to the chest causing nerve damage to my left arm, I am a naturally aggresive person, and extremely competitive. I am a newbie where all of this is concerned so I am opened minded and have in no way decided I am going to do this come hell or high water… I am going to take all advice and make a decision on when and if to run a cycle at all. I appreciate the help

369

[quote]suasponte75th wrote:
Hi everyone I am looking for some opinions, I am 36 yrs old, 5’ 10" , 182 lbs, 12%bf. I spent years in the Army with 2nd Bat Rangers, so i have been physically fit for about ten years… I have been out for a few years now and I am lifting 4 days a week trying to bulk up, quite a change for a Ranger that lives and dies by cardio.

Have been doing a westside program for last couple of months, I eat extremely clean 1.5 times body weight protein intake and double weight in carbs. Thinking of running my first cycle as 250 mg wk of cypionate, nolvadex wk 1 40-50mg/daily, wk 2-4 20-25mg/daily. Clomid day 1 300mg, day 2-11 100mg, day 12-21 50mg. Bench 210, squat 300, deadlift 300.

I took a bullet to the chest causing nerve damage to my left arm, I am a naturally aggresive person, and extremely competitive. I am a newbie where all of this is concerned so I am opened minded and have in no way decided I am going to do this come hell or high water… I am going to take all advice and make a decision on when and if to run a cycle at all. I appreciate the help[/quote]

I dont think 250mg a week will be to beneficial. I just started my first cycle overseas im about 4 - 5 weeks in at 500mg a week 2 shots of 250mg on tuesdays an fridays i know all to well the 75th lifestyle I am not seeing such drastic cosmetic changes but strength an recovery from my infils is very nice, but they say everyone is different an i wouldnt take Nolvadex throughout the cycle is it is a Serm, id go with an AI such as Adex at .25 eod depending on how you react to it… an yea just from what i read an knowledge given to me i pass onto you

RLTW.

370

Furious,

I would assume after many years, trial and error you have gained this knowledge and it is greatly appreciated to see someone with a real honest opinion mixed with fact/experience.

I have an interesting question to ask. Maybe because I am new to this that the answer is simple and I am going to make an arse of myself.

The fact is I am 26. I fought amatuer Muay Thai for 5 years. I always used natural test boosters, Nitrix Oxide, Glutamine and protein for training regimins coming up. I walk around at a natural 155-165 and cut to 145 to fight. After my last fight in 09’ i kind of lost my drive cause of work and partying too much.

After 09’, I did try Brit Drag Winnies for the first time. During that time I did maintain a good diet (without partying) and heavy lifting/calistenic excercse program. I saw good results, but with my body type I blew up. I gained 20 lbs of muscle although it looked to be water weight as oppse to my natural dry cut look. I was able to retain half for some time.

My question to you is:

Can EQ (although the properties supposed hinder natural test production) be taken with a natural test booster to help counter those effects?

I figure with my sort of endurance training (calistenics, some lifting, padwork/sparring, running, hockey) EQ will help with repair of muscles and joints. I took my first dose yesterday and i already slept better and feel like my muscles (that were very sore and dehydrated yesterday) healed from a good 8 hr sleep. This is also with glutamine intake, a good diet including higher levels of potassium for muscle hydration.

The thing I want to avoid is bloat & I hear EQ is the right choice for that. Also I’ve heard Primo thrown around by some friends. Anytime I have ever taken natural test boosters (TBomb, CryoTest, Trib, ZMA) I have notice my face leans out along with everything else, pronouncing my jaw line. That is what I’m looking for with a cycle. I want to get back into fight shape (maybe fight heeavier/155) and totally avoid moon face and sexual dysfunction. the moon face I feel will happen with the test derived roids, but my dilemma is I feel their needed to avoid the sexual dysfuntion (altho maybe with my body type it’ll use EQ just the same as test for my sex drive?). I’m a rookie at this and would appreciate some helpful hints.

Obv w EQ shutting down nat test prod that may be a concern, but i feel it may be all mental. Some people report from personal experience increased libido.

Would it be worth it for me to take the nat test booster with the EQ, OR should I just save it for after my cycle with Clomids/Nolvadex. I am not looking for super gains/cut quick, just looking to work REALLY hard to achieve the above result. I know it’s a marathon, not a sprint when training for competition/great results.

Thanks,

Brian

“A true outlaw finds the right balance between the fire in his heart and the reason in his mind. The outcome is the perfect balance of might and right.”

371

IdolHands

: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...m_and_ai_sticky

that was helpful, maybe not a good idea?

372

[quote]BScottMMA wrote:
IdolHands

: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...m_and_ai_sticky

that was helpful, maybe not a good idea? [/quote]

So you’re just running EQ? What’s your dose of eq?

“Equipoise will cause a suppression of your hormones, such as endogenous testosterone, so I would also recommend using injectable testosterone in any cycle containing it. Failure to do so could result in possible sexual dysfunction and other sides.”

373

hey im 22and ive been training a year and im 18% bodyfat but wasnt getting enough gains so i decided that i would start taking test i am on week 2 at the moment taking 500mg a week n i feel like i made the wrong decision taking them.i was wondering that i only took them for two weeks if i stopped now would i need post cycle thearpy or what?i just need some advice

cheers

374

ironkwan if you feel you made wrong decision then stop the cycle now. 2 wks it shouldnt even be in ur system yet and will therefore you wont need to worry bout PCT. Stop now and re evaluate your approach. Next time think before you act.

375

[quote]ironkwan wrote:
hey im 22and ive been training a year and im 18% bodyfat but wasnt getting enough gains so i decided that i would start taking test i am on week 2 at the moment taking 500mg a week n i feel like i made the wrong decision taking them.i was wondering that i only took them for two weeks if i stopped now would i need post cycle thearpy or what?i just need some advice

cheers [/quote]
read my post above this one ASAP!

376

what do you think about cycling t3 cytomel with
W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
(your newbie cycle)

it would be 1 pill of cyomel everyday 100 pills for the cycle.

377

[quote]bigev99 wrote:
what do you think about cycling t3 cytomel with
W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
(your newbie cycle)

it would be 1 pill of cyomel everyday 100 pills for the cycle.

[/quote]
i would take test cypionate instead of enth

378

I am thinking of running HGH at low dose for about 6 months to help with injurys. I want to take 2 iu for 5 days and then 2 days off.

Would HGH to help with injurys be worth the risk of messing up my hormone system if im 22 years old.

I know i’m not suposed to do steroids until i’m 25 but im not thinkin in terms of getting huge but rather help with injurys.
i had some injurys from a car crash that have been pretty persistent for 3 years and i’d like to see if hgh would help.

Should i wait for 3 more years and probably gain nothing or try Hgh and see if it will help.

I was also thinking since HGH is not a hormone related to puperty so much as test but rather growing in height when your a child then maybe it will not have the same negative effect on a my fluctating hormone system.

Reasoning for waiting until im 25 :

"the reason is threefold.

  1. if you have been training less than 5 years you still have a lot of very easily attainable natural gains so why not max that out before going to gear?
  2. if you have been training less than 5 years you likely don’t know your body that well and likely won’t really be making the most of your gear…you are best to figure out what works best for you naturally and then add gear as the final piece of the puzzle.
  3. there is anecdotal evidence that you do shortchange yourself by gearing up too early in your development. this issue is far from conclusive because different individuals may respond differently. "

im mainly concerned with nr. 3.

extra info:

Ive never done a cycle.
Ive been lifting since i was 17 and training various sports up until then.
Im about 200 pounds. Not fat at all but not lean either.
money is not an issue.

379

[quote]Hilldog wrote:
I am thinking of running HGH at low dose for about 6 months to help with injurys. I want to take 2 iu for 5 days and then 2 days off.

Would HGH to help with injurys be worth the risk of messing up my hormone system if im 22 years old.

I know i’m not suposed to do steroids until i’m 25 but im not thinkin in terms of getting huge but rather help with injurys.
i had some injurys from a car crash that have been pretty persistent for 3 years and i’d like to see if hgh would help.

Should i wait for 3 more years and probably gain nothing or try Hgh and see if it will help.

I was also thinking since HGH is not a hormone related to puperty so much as test but rather growing in height when your a child then maybe it will not have the same negative effect on a my fluctating hormone system.

Reasoning for waiting until im 25 :

"the reason is threefold.

  1. if you have been training less than 5 years you still have a lot of very easily attainable natural gains so why not max that out before going to gear?
  2. if you have been training less than 5 years you likely don’t know your body that well and likely won’t really be making the most of your gear…you are best to figure out what works best for you naturally and then add gear as the final piece of the puzzle.
  3. there is anecdotal evidence that you do shortchange yourself by gearing up too early in your development. this issue is far from conclusive because different individuals may respond differently. "

im mainly concerned with nr. 3.

extra info:

Ive never done a cycle.
Ive been lifting since i was 17 and training various sports up until then.
Im about 200 pounds. Not fat at all but not lean either.
money is not an issue.
[/quote]

BROTHER, YOU ARE THE tYPE OF GUY THAT STILL HAS A CHANCE. WHAT I MEAN IS…you’re young,a little misguided but receptive to learning. As for hgh Cost is a factor even if you get it cheap. I think GHRP-6/cjc-1295 combo is a better choice and there are dozens of threads out there of injuries being healed or better than before with the two peptides combo’d and its much cheaper and legal! I’m also confident that if you got your shit together FOR REAL!; DIET,CARDIO,TRAINING,REST,SUPPLEMENTS YOU would’nt even need gear. You have all the free test in the world and dont “need” it to put it simply. But i understand the “Lure of the sauce”. honestly if you can build,buil,build until you’re ready to fucking pop out of your skin and youve plateaud to holy hell and nothing is working provided your diet is in place. then …maybe you do a beginner cycle. B ut for the love of god get your diet right.
FOOD HOLDS FAR MORE POWER THAN YOU REALIZE MY MAN.I LOVE GEAR AND BEING “ON” BUT IF NUTRTITION ISNT FIRST AND FOREMOST YOUR RESULTS WILL BE LESS THAN SUPERIOR EVERY SINGLE TIME NO MATTER WHAT YOU’RE ON.

380

Hey guys, new here. Would like some input on a first cycle, I am 25yrs, been training for about 5, 5’11’’ about 180lbs. Have always been a hard gainer, have seen strength increase over the past few years but not as much size. Diet is good, eat very clean (good ratios & sources) about 4k cals/day. I’m not looking to be a professional bodybuilder, just want a boost at gaining overall mass.

I decided on Test E 500mg/wk, for 8 weeks. Anastrozole .25mg/day & Novla & Clomid for PCT after last shot.
Considering using Winstrol during, or should I save for after cycle?
I chose this because I want a simple first cycle to see how my body responds. Any advise appreciated.

381

[quote]J-F1T wrote:
Hey guys, new here. Would like some input on a first cycle, I am 25yrs, been training for about 5, 5’11’’ about 180lbs. Have always been a hard gainer, have seen strength increase over the past few years but not as much size. Diet is good, eat very clean (good ratios & sources) about 4k cals/day. I’m not looking to be a professional bodybuilder, just want a boost at gaining overall mass.

I decided on Test E 500mg/wk, for 8 weeks. Anastrozole .25mg/day & Novla & Clomid for PCT after last shot.
Considering using Winstrol during, or should I save for after cycle?
I chose this because I want a simple first cycle to see how my body responds. Any advise appreciated.[/quote]

PERSONALLY I WOULKD STRETCH IT TOP 400MG A WEEK OF TEST SINCE ITS YOUR FIRST RUN GO 10 WEEKS.ADD WINNY IN WEEK 5-10 @ 50-100MG A DAY. AND USE THE ADEX SPARINGLY…DO 1/2ML EVERY 3 RD DAY AND IF YO UNOTICE BLOATING UPP IT TO .75. USE IT SPARINGLY.TRUST ME.

AND AT THE END I WOULD SAVE SOME TEST TO TAPER DOWN. THEN WEAIT 3 WEEKS FROM THE DATE OF YOUR LAST SHOT TO BEGIN PCT. I WOULD ADD GHRP-6 PEPTIDES AT 500MCG A DAY WITH YOUR PCT AS WELL.
I’M NOT A DOCTOR…

382

sorry bouyt the caps!

383

Hello,

This is by far the best forum I have come across. I am going to do my first cycle. I have been lifting for 11yrs and have a decent knowledge base when it comes to diet. I am 6’3 250-260 depending on how much water I am holding and my body fat is around 13-15%. Here is what I have so far…

W1-4 Dbol 10mg 3x/D
W1-10 Test Enth 300mg E3D
W6-Pct Proviron 50mg/D I picked this because I was reading about how it frees up test and boost libido.
W1-12 Adex .25mg EOD .125 EOD in last week.

Pct
Nolva 40/40/20/20

My questions are on dosing, do you think I could run higher levels of test? Also, will this help me drop body fat because it is my first cycle? Also should I up the Adex to prevent water retention from the Dbol?

384

Looks pretty good. I dont think the proviron is necessary. I never had any issues with libido while on test/dbol cycles

The adex dosage good, you may have to adjust it a bit while on if you start to feel lethargic.

600 mg of test w a week for a first cycle is plenty IMO, especially with the addition of dbol.

If you want my 2 cents, I’ve ran a similar cycle a couple of time and have found in my experience that when I frontloaded the test and then took my dbol either weeks 3-7 or 8-12, i got much better results. I know you want it as a kick start , but i feel you get more bang when test levels are already elevated. Frontloading makes this happen a bit faster.

You probably will drop some bf provided your diet is up to par. This is a bulking cycle IMO, so take advantage and eat!

Good luck with this and enjoy

you may want to re post this in its own thread so others will take a look…i just happen to see someone post something on an old sticky and just looked at it out of curiosity.

385

[quote]bchrisen wrote:
“If you want my 2 cents, I’ve ran a similar cycle a couple of time and have found in my experience that when I frontloaded the test and then took my dbol either weeks 3-7 or 8-12, i got much better results. I know you want it as a kick start , but i feel you get more bang when test levels are already elevated. Frontloading makes this happen a bit faster.”

I have been doing some more research and a lot of people are doing this instead of kick starting with the Dbol. I will probably do this also. From your experience, what would be good dosing for front loading the test?