Curious if anyone here has experience with starting testosterone and hcg with fairly normal levels. my total T is like 659 ng/dL, total bioavailable is 161.4 ng/dL, and free testosterone is 72 pg/ml (kinda low).
My doctor started me on 100mg of testosterone cypo a week along with hcg in hopes that it could raise my testosterone to higher than normal levels to help me with some severe life long chronic illness ive been dealing with for like 15 years.
Now i’m reading and seeing that a dose this low could potentially just stop my body’s natural production and leave me with lower testosterone than pre-trt… while being dependent on exogenous T… I would love some insight into this. doctor isnt willing to prescribe any higher for 6 weeks after bloodwork
You’ll have to wait and see. 100 mg/week keeps my Free T high normal. 120 mg/week doubled it. *shrug
It is def gonna stop your normal production. 100mg/wk migh tput you at 800 or it migh tout you at 400. You will have to wait a couple months and see where your numbers are and adjust if needed.
Why on earth would a doctor prescribe you T with this normal value, knowing he would induce hypogonadism? What you are taking isn’t even going to do anything for your well being and function versus taking no medication which you don’t need.
The idea was to boost my levels to higher than normal to help with some pretty severe chronic illness I’ve been struggling with for a decade or so… and while my total T is pretty high, free t being at 72 is pretty low… doctor says ideally i can raise that higher taking exogenous test…
What were your levels prior to starting test?
Also, would raking just the hcg I’m prescribed help me boost my free testosterone levels without risking shutdown? I’ve only been taking the test for 2 weeks so assume I still have the option of stopping it without a huge crash
The HCG is intended to keep your testes functioning by artificially supplying Luteinizing Hormone (LH) so your balls continue to produce testosterone and sperm. When you’re taking exogenous test, your brain senses that there is sufficient testosterone in your system, so it stops producing LH as part of the normal feedback loop.
To answer your question, HCG should keep your balls functioning while on TRT.
Yes, you can stop at 2 weeks in, particularly considering you are taking HCG. I am doubtful you’ll experience a crash if you continue HCG for another few weeks post testosterone cessation, then stop the HCG as well.
Can I ask what chronic illness you have that TRT is intended to prevent?
Wouldn’t taking hcg on its own help boost my levels a bit?
I have severe ME/CFS, I get nasty flu symptoms, running nose, fevers, aches, chills etc… and extreme fatigue/malaise.
Two weeks on testosterone and I’ve already noticed a huge improvement, but I’m sure that’s just because I’ve an excess of testosterone rn with the exogenous + what’s left of my natural production.
I’ve lifted weights for like 9 years and am quite strong/lean but lately whenever I lift it aggravates my chronic illness so bad… I really don’t want to give excercise up because it keeps me sane / helps my depression
Yes, its just kind of an ineffective workaround. It works better than nothing, for sure.
A lot of this is probably placebo effect, honestly.
That little dot is where you are at today… at approximately 450ng/dL.
As you pointed out, there is likely still natural testosterone production happening at the same time due to HCG, but it is very difficult to know how much.
100mg/wk will probably land your TT levels at <600 peak >560 trough
^link if you want to play around with it yourself.
Unless you are planning on having kids NOW, or in the near future, HCG isn’t doing much for you.
If and when you want to have kids, it can be taken then to regain fertility at some 98% success rate (there was a study that backed this somewhere).
Taking it now is an unnecessary complication with respect to estrogen levels… its worth discussing with your provider to stop taking it at your next checkup.
I would continue with your TRT until your 6 week checkup. If what I think to be “placebo effect” doesn’t wear off by then, I think staying on TRT is probably a good idea, considering your lifestyle.
Under almost any other circumstances, I would say that you aren’t really a candidate for TRT. Your labs say as much for sure.
But if you are getting positive results from taking this to combat your ME/CFS symptoms, then it makes sense to stay on it - at least to me.
Which illness?
Just curious as to whether there’s rationale behind this
Does the condition you have decrease lean mass? I assume it’s a painful condition
So you think if in 6 weeks I stop noticing a benefit from the testosterone I’ll be able to jump off without serious complications? I have some clomid…
I’m interested in trying steroids like anavar (for vanity reasons not health) but from what I’ve read it’s best to just start with testosterone
ME/CFS. My assumption is that if I’d been in a health crash (I get post exertion malaise and sometimes it’s really bad, like bad flu symptoms) my levels would have been a lot lower
So you have chronic fatigue syndrome. Maybe subclinical low T (low FT normal TT probably high SHBG) … intervention might help with CFS, I found TRT helped somewhat but if you are in a lot of pain (or just very tired) and you are going like 50 hours without sleep on a regular basis I find TRT will only help so much… at that point you can either take stimulants (and prolong inevitable crashing) if you have a script or you can just accept that you have a disease and there is no magic pill that can cure this kind of thing… you will likely need to find ways to work around this unfortunately, and that probably means modifying your lifestyle to some degree
are you hypermobile by chance? I’ve met people who clearly have hEDS/some subtype of connective tissue disease who are initially misdiagnosed with ME/CFS or fibromyalgia
ME/CFS certainly exists, but there was a guy who I went to school with who was given an IBS, fibro and CFS diagnosis when his beighton score is like 8/9, he has a mother with similar symptoms and it’s clear his fatigue is coming from a connective tissue disease
I do believe CFS exists, but I think many with genetic diseases/autoimmune conditions are lumped in and given a CFS diagnosis because many doctors do not investigate thoroughly enough.
If you’ve been on HCG the whole time - probably. It will keep your balls running the entire time you’re on TRT so when you stop, there’s not really a delay between the artificially raised test levels, and your balls turning back on.
Well, any steroid will suppress your natural production regardless. If thats a route you’re planning on taking at some point, then staying on TRT makes a lot more sense - its just more of a “cruise” than a “therapy”.
Yes, starting with just testosterone is usually best just to monitor for side effects.
Anavar has so few side effects that its not uncommon to see a newbie cycle be something like 500mg test weekly for weeks 1-12, then 50mg anavar daily for weeks 8-12 or something.
Yeah, unfortunately CFS is often just another term for mystery autoimmune disease. I’ve been through such an extensive amount of testing, I think they would have picked up on that. I do have co occurring immunodeficiency (an ig deficiency) but my assumption is that that’s a symptom of my chronic illness, not the source of it. I do sub cutaneous immune globulin to treat this.
Unfortunately a lot of people who are just tired and lazy or depressed say they have CFS… I get flu symptoms 36-48hrs after over exertion, and sometimes they last for two + weeks
How does one get a doctor to prescribe testosterone in these doses though? Mine refuses to go over 100mg/week until 3months + testing…
Yes I get it, it’s real… I believe you, trust me I believe you… the co-occurance of the ig defficiency clearly indicates something IS going on.
I can’t see testosterone fixing this, but who knows…
I often go days without sleep secondary to a genetic illness I have (pain related usually) so I understand the desire to look for “alternative” solutions
in my experience I managed to find this kind of thing helped (going the test etc route but I actually had legitimate hypogonadism) but in the end while it allowed me to get a few normal formative years out of life it only delayed the inevitable
I mean, you’re not going to get prescribed 500mg test weekly, lol.
For “TRT” you could get prescribed up to 200mg/wk, but this is considered high by many doctors. 125-150mg/wk is enough to alleviate pretty much all low-t symptoms in everyone.
If you’re going to a private practice, they are more likely to prescribe up to 200mg/wk and on rare occasions up to 250mg/wk. Your insurance isn’t going to cover that.
Alternatively, you just buy the stuff underground for pennies on the dollar, but it’s “illegal”.
Depends on what your goals are, but the discussion at hand is “TRT”, not “steroids”.
Word, assuming asking about where to do that online on this forum is very against the rules