Starting Daily Anastrozole. I Don't Care What You Say

@dixiewrecked,

For 7 years on trt, I was convinced that my “high E2” symptoms needed to be addressed with an AI. So for 7 years, I took anastrozole. I finally came across a post by @dbossa, and argued that I needed an AI, and who did he think he was, telling me I not only didn’t need an AI, but my AI was actually harming me in ways that I’d never been told before. He was able to convince me with logic and common sense(the same logic and common sense that you’re brushing aside) that my injections twice a week protocol was giving me the “high E2” symptoms. And that I am sensitive to hormones, and not high E2. I switched to eod injections with the same weekly dose, and I dropped the anastrozole and never looked back. In fact, I just got finished with a little experiment. I upped my weekly t dose from 200mg per week, to 400mg per week, for the last 17 weeks. And guess what? I never needed an AI. No “high E2” symptoms. It turned out that @dbossa was right, and I was wrong. And after switching to eod injections with my 200mg per week dose, and dropping the AI, my foot pain was gone. My joints actually feel normal again. And also, my bp went down too.

I’m telling you that what he’s saying is correct.

So, you can beat your head against the wall arguing with him, or you can do yourself a favor, and drop the AI poison.

Your body will thank you.

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Now imagine over a thousand messages like this in my inbox (I kid you not). There have been over a million views of the videos on that channel… So I get a lot of messages. Another reason why I gave up my rights to the channel because it was getting totally out of control.

Any man in my position would be sufficiently convinced at this point. I went through the same damn process myself.

It’s always the protocol. It’s always, always the damn protocol. No, we’re not injecting more frequently to control estrogen (whoever said that is full of it). I don’t even think of estrogen when I’m helping a guy out yet that’s all they’re worrying about.

I have two files in Pdf format that some of the docs sent me. Problem is, you have to be subscribed to certain sites to see the full version online and I can’t attach a file here.

The names of the two studies are:

Toxicity of Extended Adjuvant Therapy With Aromatase Inhibitors in Early Breast Cancer: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis

and

Effects of exemestane and tamoxifen on bone health within the Tamoxifen Exemestane Adjuvant Multicentre (TEAM) trial: results of a German, 12-month, prospective, randomised substudy

Needless to say it’s pretty clear you want to avoid this stuff like the plague. I have a ton of others but would have to sift through all my messages to find them.

I would like to add that there most certainly is harm when exceeding TRT doses. @dbossa I believe you clarified this already though. This is also why I see most guys with issues complaining when their T and E2 are both well above normal range.

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It should be noted the dosages of AI’s used to treat breast cancer supercede dosages used by bodybuilders to lower estrogen.

With anastrazole for breast cancer you’re looking at around 1mg/day. Aromatase inhibitors have risks, there’s no denying that. But you can’t really compare AI use in a TRT/AAS context with the protocals used in patients who have ER positive breast cancer. With ER positive breast cancer you’re trying to wipe out estrogen, the same can’t be said for bodybuilders (aside from pre-contest).

Estrogen is important for maintaining/optimising bone mineral density (as are androgens to an extent), glucose/lipid metabolism, NO production etc. But similarly to testosterone a therapeutic window exists, you can have too much (and it’ll almost always be correlated with an excess of testosterone). That being said, those with hepatic dysfunction, klinefelter’s syndrome, aromatase excess syndrome etc may legitimately require an AI (T/E ratio might be skewed).

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@Gossamer thats an awesome success story and I’m glad to hear you feel good! I have tried the EOD injection for over a year at the same dosage. Don’t feel good consistently. This is a perfect example of not everyone being the the same. Check out my bloodwork in the OP if you would like. Thanks for sharing your experience. Its valuable information and I think its an important story to tell.

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We wouldn’t call it harm per se. Some guys can handle upwards of a gram of testosterone with no issues whatsoever whereas others can barely handle 35mg a week. It’s the androgen load… Not E2. It makes me laugh to see guys running full on cycles and when they get issues they blame estradiol. Oh no… It’s not the 750mg of androgens a week… Impossible… Can’t possibly be that…

Agreed about Klinefters and aromatase excess syndrome. For the latter I’ve seen a single case out of thousands. There is one case of Klinefters in our FB group of over 5000 members. This is an EXCEPTIONAL circumstance that doesn’t apply to 99.99% of men on TRT. We are talking about a true, clinical, underlying condition. Not just some typical guy with an androgen deficiency. Apples and oranges.

You can’t just take current weekly dose, try EOD, and when that doesn’t work claim you need an AI. You should see some of the tweaks I’ve had to do. Some guys are better with twice weekly, some with every 3 days, some with EOD and some with daily. Then it’s the weekly dose itself where we move up and down. Everything gets documented. Everything is tested and retested and I’m not talking labs… I’m talking how you feel. Better libido on one but crappy sleep. Better sleep but brain fog during the day. High libido but ED. The list goes on. This is a lot of trial and error and testing theories and documenting the results.

The guys who claim “but I NEED an AI!” are the lazy asses who haven’t been able to figure out the best protocol for THEM, and instead take an AI to mask the symptoms of their shitty protocol, at the expense of their health.

I stand by this 100%

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Just throwing in my 2 cents. If anyone cares. There is definitely a lack of evidence to support the need for an AI on TRT. I for one also feel better without an AI while at a TRT dose, and I think @dbossa is correct regarding AI and TRT. Things get a little hairier when increasing exogenous testosterone above a TRT dose. There is just not enough research to say one way or the other. Anecdotally, when I increase my testosterone beyond TRT doses, I certainly need an AI or I get all sorts of estrogen related problems. There are so many guys on here on “TRT” but they’re really dosing way too high, putting free T and total T well above range. I expect those guys are the ones experiencing high E2 symptoms and “need” an AI.

Right now, there is some evidence that shows high E2 in older men increases mortality, however this was not a study evaluating testosterone to estrogen ratio, and not even on men on TRT. A long term study would need to be done to on TRT patients to see if this holds true for men with high levels of testosterone as well as estrogen.

Here is a well written explanation on the need (or not) for a AI.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1557988314539000

### Do We Need to Treat High E2 After TRT? Anastrozole

This study was not designed specifically to answer this question. A prospective, randomized controlled study would be needed over several years to understand if indeed high E2 after TRT may be beneficial or harmful. Currently, there are no national guidelines that are evidence based for treatment of high E2 after TRT. However, there was a high treatment rate for our group of patients at 30%. Based on interviews with select practitioners, we found that the reasons for the high rates of prescribing AI and SERM are partly patient pressure, practitioner confusion, and fear of the harmful effects of high E2 in long term. Some studies have indicated an association of high estrogens to higher rates of heart attacks, strokes, and prostate cancer (Basaria et al., 2013; Kristal et al., 2012; Lerchbaum et al., 2011). In one such study, higher estradiol levels in men were significantly associated with prevalent strokes, peripheral vascular disease, and carotid artery stenosis compared to lower estradiol levels. High levels of estradiol were also associated with all-cause and noncardiovascular mortality in a large cohort of older men referred to coronary angiography (Lerchbaum et al., 2011). These studies of association do not infer causality and as such should not be used for the basis for treatment of high estrogen. AI and SERM use may be justified for breast tenderness or gynecomastia. However, gynecomastia is rarely documented in problem list; this is an area of improvement for the practice.

In our study, high estradiol levels did not correlate with higher rates of low libido. On the other hand, low levels of E2 were associated with higher rates of low libido. The explanation could be that low E2 usually results from low testosterone levels, as E2 is aromatized from testosterone. Our study results parallel that of others (Finkelstein et al., 2013) suggesting a positive role of estradiol in human male libido functioning. There are limitations to our present study and we do declare that our results cannot be generalized. This is based on our methodology of assigning low libido as captured in the problem list. Providers may have not uniformly entered the ICD-9 diagnoses, and hence it may be possible that results may be overstated. The other limitation is that although 34,016 patients who presented to the Centers were screened, only 50% were eligible for treatment, based on inclusion and exclusion factors. The analysis was done on patients who presented to the Centers and were screened and not limited to those on treatment. The correlation of libido is definitely an area for further study.

The effects of estradiol on the human brain are unclear. Currently, there are no hormone markers within the brain to determine the association of levels of sex hormones with libido. In this study a presumption was made that serum estradiol reflects brain estradiol levels or activity. It may be possible that if serum estradiol level is low more estradiol is available for the brain, as it is shifted from the rest of the body to the brain. This hypothesis is given to support the results of our study, of not associating low libido to higher estradiol levels. In a previous study, positive emission tomography was used in an attempt to map areas of the brain involved in glucose metabolism after administration of testosterone. The brain stem and parietal lobes were highly metabolic, suggesting that these areas are involved in sexual processing (Tan, 2013). There are current arguments for an optimal T:E2 ratio for sexuality (Shabsigh et al., 2005), rather than the actual amounts, but studies are weakly powered.

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Again… High E2 was associated with cardiovascular etc etc.

Meanwhile you raise T, which raises E2, and all of a sudden these same men reap the protective benefits of estradiol as it is cardioprotective. We can actually demonstrate this. You want to use an interventional approach for these types of studies. “We took a bunch of men, we did XYZ to them, and this was the outcome.”

Associative studies don’t hold much value for me as they are often completely inconclusive. It’s like when they claim high E2 is associated with obesity. It makes it sound like the high E2 CAUSED the obesity. You know that’s false. When you’re obese your E2 goes up. It isn’t the E2 that caused the obesity. E2 is an innocent bystander here. Yet everyone jumps on the bad E2 and tells the fat guy he needs an aromatase inhibitor when we can DEMONSTRATE estradiol being huge at reducing visceral fat. Why would you want to lower the thing that helps to reduce visceral fat in an obese man? It’s nuts. Some believe that the higher E2 is actually the body’s response to the obesity as a defense mechanism to try to lower visceral fat but I haven’t yet seen any evidence to support this theory.

If you guys haven’t already, PLEASE watch this. You can’t possibly be part of this debate without at least had watched this video at least once. THIS was the video that changed my mind back in the day that I obsessed over how to slice my arimidex pill into eigths like an idiot.

Not making this up… This JUST got posted in my Facebook group and they have NO IDEA I’m in here right now lol! Oh wait… It’s an older post that has suddenly come back to life. People are commenting on it. Maybe someone in here who is also over there??

That’s from April 11th … maybe the new comments aren’t in the screenshot

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Yes I agree with you for TRT. Except you are extrapolating those results and making it a blanket statement. You cannot make this statement about men on 500+mg/week. You just don’t know, there haven’t been many/if any studies on this at all.

Yeah… New likes… This is quite the coincidence… Was at the top of my feed.

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Actually, there has been. Look up the Bhasin study with guys taking 600mg a week for 10 weeks. We’re those guys given an AI? Nope.

10 weeks. Sorry, how does this apply to long term use?

BTW, no AI was part of the experiemental design, it was not what the study was researching. It was designed that way most likely to eliminate a variable.

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Danny can’t even read forum posts correctly. Don’t rely on him for competent medical analysis. He’s just never going to stop. Its like a retarded terminator.

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Agreed… But do you not find it interesting that they didn’t automatically provide these men with an AI? Why didn’t they? Because there is nothing in the literature that demonstrated that they should, even at those high doses.

“It’s”