Stand Your Ground

Off Topic
41

[quote]four60 wrote:

In MD we have a form of Stand Your Ground. We have a Castle Doctrine that states If some tried to break into my Home, Car, property I don’t have to run or wonder why are they coming in? I can just defend.

The Law becomes weak when you are just strolling around. In that case we must fall on MD common law that says we must attempt to flee UNLESS doing so puts us in more danger. (like if they are right on you and running means turning your back to the attack)

I would LOVE a more defined Stand Your Ground Law in MD and my birth Facist state of NYC

[/quote]

MA is the same way.

A guy was almost a victim of a bump and steal (the thieves bump your fender on the highway, and jack your car when you pull over.) The man fired on and killed the dude trying to steal his car and the driver drove away. The only reason he was vindicated was he was on a highway and couldn’t very well run away into oncoming traffic, and there was a sound barrier on the opposite side. Otherwise MA would have sent him to prison.

I think we live in a fucked up world where someone can break into your home, and sue you civilly for defending yourself if you don’t morally wound them…

42

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

In MD we have a form of Stand Your Ground. We have a Castle Doctrine that states If some tried to break into my Home, Car, property I don’t have to run or wonder why are they coming in? I can just defend.

The Law becomes weak when you are just strolling around. In that case we must fall on MD common law that says we must attempt to flee UNLESS doing so puts us in more danger. (like if they are right on you and running means turning your back to the attack)

I would LOVE a more defined Stand Your Ground Law in MD and my birth Facist state of NYC

[/quote]

MA is the same way.

A guy was almost a victim of a bump and steal (the thieves bump your fender on the highway, and jack your car when you pull over.) The man fired on and killed the dude trying to steal his car and the driver drove away. The only reason he was vindicated was he was on a highway and couldn’t very well run away into oncoming traffic, and there was a sound barrier on the opposite side. Otherwise MA would have sent him to prison.

I think we live in a fucked up world where someone can break into your home, and sue you civilly for defending yourself if you don’t morally wound them…[/quote]

A large chunk of my family lives in one of those states (NY). I just will never understand a law that allows an assailant time and access to your home. While you the law abiding home owner must act fast to gather family and look for a way out to flee from the safety of a home.

Its insanity. I lived in NY from birth till 20 when I joined the service. My grandmother was a old southern woman and she let it be known “If she didn’t open the door you are breaking in and she was a great shot even at 89”

43

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

In MD we have a form of Stand Your Ground. We have a Castle Doctrine that states If some tried to break into my Home, Car, property I don’t have to run or wonder why are they coming in? I can just defend.

The Law becomes weak when you are just strolling around. In that case we must fall on MD common law that says we must attempt to flee UNLESS doing so puts us in more danger. (like if they are right on you and running means turning your back to the attack)

I would LOVE a more defined Stand Your Ground Law in MD and my birth Facist state of NYC

[/quote]

I think we live in a fucked up world where someone can break into your home, and sue you civilly for defending yourself if you don’t morally wound them…[/quote]

Beans, I dont live in that world my friend.

Texas is and a lot of the south is a little different.

44

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I think it is pretty easy.
If you legitimately fear for the life of your family/friend/yourself then deadly force is justified.
If you do not fear for a/your life then I do not think its justified.[/quote]

Ya, but how do you prove or even define legitimate fear? Is there a different standard for women, children, cowards, etc…[/quote]
Proving that you were scared for your life?
Come on buddy [/quote]

Do you think it is easy to prove you are scared for your life? People still doubt Zimmerman was scared for his life.

130 lbs guy breaks into your house at 2 AM

Two people are home
Person A: 200lbs former Marine
Person B: 120lbs woman

who is scared?

The answer is: A, A & B, B, or neither. You really don’t know because it’s 100% personal and dependant on the situation.

So how exactly do you justify your blanket statement?

45

The public’s conception of what self-defense is and when it applies is vastly different than the legal definitions are and how they are applied and argued in court.

Seriously, most of the times you think it’s self-defense, it’s not. You’ve got to be more or less cornered, with no ability to retreat, and you’ve got to understand use of force continuums - if a guy spits on you, you can’t shoot him. If he’s on top of you trying to stab you, and you wrestle the knife away and boot him in the ribs and he’s on the ground moaning, if you stab him, it’s murder.

Seriously, go to this site and read if you’re really interested in this…

46

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I think it is pretty easy.
If you legitimately fear for the life of your family/friend/yourself then deadly force is justified.
If you do not fear for a/your life then I do not think its justified.[/quote]

Ya, but how do you prove or even define legitimate fear? Is there a different standard for women, children, cowards, etc…[/quote]
Proving that you were scared for your life?
Come on buddy [/quote]

Do you think it is easy to prove you are scared for your life? People still doubt Zimmerman was scared for his life.

130 lbs guy breaks into your house at 2 AM

Two people are home
Person A: 200lbs former Marine
Person B: 120lbs woman

who is scared?

The answer is: A, A & B, B, or neither. You really don’t know because it’s 100% personal and dependant on the situation.

So how exactly do you justify your blanket statement?[/quote]

I don’t care how big or small you are. If you break into my home, I am going to execute you with extreme prejudice and let my dogs gnaw on your corpse. You don’t fucking break into another man’s home. That is just stupid and asking to be killed. And anyone who lives in a place with extreme gun control laws and has the ability to move is an idiot.

And you don’t have to just fear for your life. You can fear for the life of your spouse or children and be justified in ending them. Your home is where you should be safe and be able to brutally maim and kill anyone trying to endanger that safety.

47

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Where deadly force laws get interesting, IMHO, is defense of property. For example, in Texas, a night, you can use deadly force to prevent theft of your property. So there are cases where homeowners shoot out the window at car thieves and kill them – perfectly legal.[/quote]

Thats how you deal with horsethieves.

48

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I think it is pretty easy.
If you legitimately fear for the life of your family/friend/yourself then deadly force is justified.
If you do not fear for a/your life then I do not think its justified.[/quote]

Ya, but how do you prove or even define legitimate fear? Is there a different standard for women, children, cowards, etc…[/quote]
Proving that you were scared for your life?
Come on buddy [/quote]

Do you think it is easy to prove you are scared for your life? People still doubt Zimmerman was scared for his life.

130 lbs guy breaks into your house at 2 AM

Two people are home
Person A: 200lbs former Marine
Person B: 120lbs woman

who is scared?

The answer is: A, A & B, B, or neither. You really don’t know because it’s 100% personal and dependant on the situation.

So how exactly do you justify your blanket statement?[/quote]

I don’t care how big or small you are. If you break into my home, I am going to execute you with extreme prejudice and let my dogs gnaw on your corpse. You don’t fucking break into another man’s home. That is just stupid and asking to be killed. And anyone who lives in a place with extreme gun control laws and has the ability to move is an idiot.

And you don’t have to just fear for your life. You can fear for the life of your spouse or children and be justified in ending them. Your home is where you should be safe and be able to brutally maim and kill anyone trying to endanger that safety.
[/quote]

It’s a nice thought pal, but when you’re doing literally 30 years in prison because you took something too far, remember this lovely bit of hyperbole.

And it’s not that I disagree with you, either. It’s just the way of things. These are things that people should know.

49

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Seriously, go to this site and read if you’re really interested in this…

[/quote]

Great. Thanks

50

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The public’s conception of what self-defense is and when it applies is vastly different than the legal definitions are and how they are applied and argued in court.

Seriously, most of the times you think it’s self-defense, it’s not. You’ve got to be more or less cornered, with no ability to retreat, and you’ve got to understand use of force continuums - if a guy spits on you, you can’t shoot him. If he’s on top of you trying to stab you, and you wrestle the knife away and boot him in the ribs and he’s on the ground moaning, if you stab him, it’s murder.

Seriously, go to this site and read if you’re really interested in this…

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defenseexplained.htm[/quote]
Irish again things are a little different in Texas and the South

51

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I think it is pretty easy.
If you legitimately fear for the life of your family/friend/yourself then deadly force is justified.
If you do not fear for a/your life then I do not think its justified.[/quote]

Ya, but how do you prove or even define legitimate fear? Is there a different standard for women, children, cowards, etc…[/quote]
Proving that you were scared for your life?
Come on buddy [/quote]

Do you think it is easy to prove you are scared for your life? People still doubt Zimmerman was scared for his life.

130 lbs guy breaks into your house at 2 AM

Two people are home
Person A: 200lbs former Marine
Person B: 120lbs woman

who is scared?

The answer is: A, A & B, B, or neither. You really don’t know because it’s 100% personal and dependant on the situation.

So how exactly do you justify your blanket statement?[/quote]

I don’t care how big or small you are. If you break into my home, I am going to execute you with extreme prejudice and let my dogs gnaw on your corpse. You don’t fucking break into another man’s home. That is just stupid and asking to be killed. And anyone who lives in a place with extreme gun control laws and has the ability to move is an idiot.

And you don’t have to just fear for your life. You can fear for the life of your spouse or children and be justified in ending them. Your home is where you should be safe and be able to brutally maim and kill anyone trying to endanger that safety.
[/quote]

It’s a nice thought pal, but when you’re doing literally 30 years in prison because you took something too far, remember this lovely bit of hyperbole.

And it’s not that I disagree with you, either. It’s just the way of things. These are things that people should know.
[/quote]

Not hyperbole, if you break into my home I am going to empty my clip into you or until you are on the ground not moving. Then call 911. You have to end the threat. I have no idea in the middle of the night what weapons or what you have on your person. The threat is over when the person is no longer moving or conscious.

I may have taken it a bit far, but prepare to lose your life if you break into my home. That being said you have to be extremely dumb or high to break into my house. It sits about 400 yard off the road in the country and has 3 pits, a great dane, and golden retriever roaming the yard. Glad I live in MS and not New Jersey.

52

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The public’s conception of what self-defense is and when it applies is vastly different than the legal definitions are and how they are applied and argued in court.

Seriously, most of the times you think it’s self-defense, it’s not. You’ve got to be more or less cornered, with no ability to retreat, and you’ve got to understand use of force continuums - if a guy spits on you, you can’t shoot him. If he’s on top of you trying to stab you, and you wrestle the knife away and boot him in the ribs and he’s on the ground moaning, if you stab him, it’s murder.

Seriously, go to this site and read if you’re really interested in this…

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defenseexplained.htm[/quote]
Irish again things are a little different in Texas and the South[/quote]

Ok I’m starting to think that is the Tat on the other arm.

53

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The public’s conception of what self-defense is and when it applies is vastly different than the legal definitions are and how they are applied and argued in court.

Seriously, most of the times you think it’s self-defense, it’s not. You’ve got to be more or less cornered, with no ability to retreat, and you’ve got to understand use of force continuums - if a guy spits on you, you can’t shoot him. If he’s on top of you trying to stab you, and you wrestle the knife away and boot him in the ribs and he’s on the ground moaning, if you stab him, it’s murder.

Seriously, go to this site and read if you’re really interested in this…

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defenseexplained.htm[/quote]
Irish again things are a little different in Texas and the South[/quote]

Oh I understand that the laws vary greatly. I’m coming from the northeast, and the rules here border on ridiculous - my liberal brethren have no concept of the real world in this instance.

That being said, it’s good to know just in case you’re visiting somewhere where the laws are far different than shoot-first Texas.

54

Here’s one locally from a couple of months ago- http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-south/bethel-park-store-owner-kills-attacker-685365/

In a given situation, I don’t know how judicious I’d be in use of force to stop someone either in my house or presenting a threat to my wife or son. They would probably end up severely injured or worse. There have been a number of cases in the past few years of home invasions or attempted robberies turning into home owner shooting the intruder and nothing comes of it. PA adopted some form of a Castle Doctrine last year, I think, but even prior to that police weren’t charging people who faced a legitimate threat with deadly or potentially deadly force. If they live, they are also charged with what ever crimes were being committing at the time.

On the philosophical side of it- I’d have to look at the action. If it is in the heat of the moment, a person is being attacked through no fault of their own and serious harm is imminent- They should do what ever is necessary. If it’s just a face punching contest and they’re butt hurt about loosing so the person either draws a gun or gets a gun and starts shooting- that is a crime. In my opinion there isn’t anything more aggressive or premeditated than a home invasion and deadly force is perfectly justified in those circumstance. Nothing particularly to do with fear, just that no one should have to tolerate that.

55

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Not hyperbole, if you break into my home I am going to empty my clip into you or until you are on the ground not moving. Then call 911. You have to end the threat. I have no idea in the middle of the night what weapons or what you have on your person. The threat is over when the person is no longer moving or conscious.

I may have taken it a bit far, but prepare to lose your life if you break into my home. That being said you have to be extremely dumb or high to break into my house. It sits about 400 yard off the road in the country and has 3 pits, a great dane, and golden retriever roaming the yard. Glad I live in MS and not New Jersey.[/quote]

Well, I’m always glad that I live in New Jersey and not Mississippi. So I guess we agree on that one.

That being said, your idea of a home invasion is a little more cut and dried than what can actually happen. Many things can go on and situations can arise where you might have to show restraint, otherwise you’re going to be in front of a jury. And if that jury is filled with the cast of the Dukes of Hazard, then you’re fine, but if you’re in another place, it’s not so easy.

56

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The public’s conception of what self-defense is and when it applies is vastly different than the legal definitions are and how they are applied and argued in court.

Seriously, most of the times you think it’s self-defense, it’s not. You’ve got to be more or less cornered, with no ability to retreat, and you’ve got to understand use of force continuums - if a guy spits on you, you can’t shoot him. If he’s on top of you trying to stab you, and you wrestle the knife away and boot him in the ribs and he’s on the ground moaning, if you stab him, it’s murder.

Seriously, go to this site and read if you’re really interested in this…

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defenseexplained.htm[/quote]
Irish again things are a little different in Texas and the South[/quote]

Oh I understand that the laws vary greatly. I’m coming from the northeast, and the rules here border on ridiculous - my liberal brethren have no concept of the real world in this instance.

That being said, it’s good to know just in case you’re visiting somewhere where the laws are far different than shoot-first Texas.[/quote]
Good point.

I dont believe I would ever travel carrying to the north east, that would be inviting trouble.

57

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The public’s conception of what self-defense is and when it applies is vastly different than the legal definitions are and how they are applied and argued in court.

Seriously, most of the times you think it’s self-defense, it’s not. You’ve got to be more or less cornered, with no ability to retreat, and you’ve got to understand use of force continuums - if a guy spits on you, you can’t shoot him. If he’s on top of you trying to stab you, and you wrestle the knife away and boot him in the ribs and he’s on the ground moaning, if you stab him, it’s murder.

Seriously, go to this site and read if you’re really interested in this…

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defenseexplained.htm[/quote]
Irish again things are a little different in Texas and the South[/quote]

Ok I’m starting to think that is the Tat on the other arm.[/quote]
? Okay I am slow today, 460 does not compute

58

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Not hyperbole, if you break into my home I am going to empty my clip into you or until you are on the ground not moving. Then call 911. You have to end the threat. I have no idea in the middle of the night what weapons or what you have on your person. The threat is over when the person is no longer moving or conscious.

I may have taken it a bit far, but prepare to lose your life if you break into my home. That being said you have to be extremely dumb or high to break into my house. It sits about 400 yard off the road in the country and has 3 pits, a great dane, and golden retriever roaming the yard. Glad I live in MS and not New Jersey.[/quote]

Well, I’m always glad that I live in New Jersey and not Mississippi. So I guess we agree on that one.

That being said, your idea of a home invasion is a little more cut and dried than what can actually happen. Many things can go on and situations can arise where you might have to show restraint, otherwise you’re going to be in front of a jury. And if that jury is filled with the cast of the Dukes of Hazard, then you’re fine, but if you’re in another place, it’s not so easy.[/quote]

Agreed, you have to be cognizant of where you are. But I would rather be in prison serving 30 with my family safe than them being killed or injured because some liberal assholes have a love fest with criminals and the poor downtrodden souls that commit heinous acts.

It sickens me how so many northern states do everything to protect the criminals and fuck the innocent. I will never understand that mindset and will never live in a blue state.

59

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The public’s conception of what self-defense is and when it applies is vastly different than the legal definitions are and how they are applied and argued in court.

Seriously, most of the times you think it’s self-defense, it’s not. You’ve got to be more or less cornered, with no ability to retreat, and you’ve got to understand use of force continuums - if a guy spits on you, you can’t shoot him. If he’s on top of you trying to stab you, and you wrestle the knife away and boot him in the ribs and he’s on the ground moaning, if you stab him, it’s murder.

Seriously, go to this site and read if you’re really interested in this…

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defenseexplained.htm[/quote]
Irish again things are a little different in Texas and the South[/quote]

Oh I understand that the laws vary greatly. I’m coming from the northeast, and the rules here border on ridiculous - my liberal brethren have no concept of the real world in this instance.

That being said, it’s good to know just in case you’re visiting somewhere where the laws are far different than shoot-first Texas.[/quote]
Good point.

I dont believe I would ever travel carrying to the north east, that would be inviting trouble.

[/quote]

You really can’t travel carrying in some of these states. In New Jersey it’s impossible to get a concealed or open carry license unless you’re a cop more or less. I don’t mind that either, but self-defense situations involve a lot more than just guns. That’s why I tell people they should understand it on a wider level.

60

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Not hyperbole, if you break into my home I am going to empty my clip into you or until you are on the ground not moving. Then call 911. You have to end the threat. I have no idea in the middle of the night what weapons or what you have on your person. The threat is over when the person is no longer moving or conscious.

I may have taken it a bit far, but prepare to lose your life if you break into my home. That being said you have to be extremely dumb or high to break into my house. It sits about 400 yard off the road in the country and has 3 pits, a great dane, and golden retriever roaming the yard. Glad I live in MS and not New Jersey.[/quote]

Well, I’m always glad that I live in New Jersey and not Mississippi. So I guess we agree on that one.

That being said, your idea of a home invasion is a little more cut and dried than what can actually happen. Many things can go on and situations can arise where you might have to show restraint, otherwise you’re going to be in front of a jury. And if that jury is filled with the cast of the Dukes of Hazard, then you’re fine, but if you’re in another place, it’s not so easy.[/quote]

Agreed, you have to be cognizant of where you are. But I would rather be in prison serving 30 with my family safe than them being killed or injured because some liberal assholes have a love fest with criminals and the poor downtrodden souls that commit heinous acts.

It sickens me how so many northern states do everything to protect the criminals and fuck the innocent. I will never understand that mindset and will never live in a blue state.[/quote]

Well… don’t worry. We don’t want you. Stay in Mississippi.