[quote]Gumpshmee wrote:
A measured approach is far better, where we consume roughly no less or more than that which is required to gain at a reasonable rate, looking how we want to look, feeling how we want to feel, whether it takes 3000 calories or 5000 calories.
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And how exactly are you going to figure out this precise amount? Especially considering that weight gain is not linear.
The lean muscle, “look how you want” (aka keep your abs) mindset is probably the biggest reason for lack of progress. Most people simply dont have the genetics to gain a lot of muscle mass while sitting at a low bf.
[quote]Anus Bleach wrote:
And how exactly are you going to figure out this precise amount? Especially considering that weight gain is not linear.[/quote]
Incremental steps and patience are required. The more variables you can control for the more predictable things become. Just because weight can jump and stall doesn’t mean bigger jumps are better jumps. The overall linear extrapolation of progress is your best guide. 4lbs/month is a goal, an even rate is not totally necessary. If you stall you gently increase calories. If you overshoot you decrease slightly. Winning a race isn’t just about having the pedal to the floor. You have to steer a bit.
[quote]Anus Bleach wrote:
The lean muscle, “look how you want” (aka keep your abs) mindset is probably the biggest reason for lack of progress. Most people simply dont have the genetics to gain a lot of muscle mass while sitting at a low bf.[/quote]
I think the biggest reason for lack of progress, is not gaining weight.
Your second claim hinges on the definition of “a lot” which necessarily involves the context of a time frame.
I think most people don’t have the patience to consider a 10 or 20 pound gain “a lot” of muscle for a year.
Incremental steps and patience are required. The more variables you can control for the more predictable things become. Just because weight can jump and stall doesn’t mean bigger jumps are better jumps. The overall linear extrapolation of progress is your best guide. 4lbs/month is a goal, an even rate is not totally necessary. If you stall you gently increase calories. If you overshoot you decrease slightly. Winning a race isn’t just about having the pedal to the floor. You have to steer a bit.
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Can you show anyone who has had success with this approach? I’m not asking that to be condescending or anything…I mean, look, I basically did last year what you did this year: put on a good amount of weight, then cut to the point of having very little to show for it. The difference between us is that I considered it to have been a very poor decision on my part and a waste of good, quality mass gains, while you have presented it as an example of how great IFing is.
Your post is basically in direct conflict with what X is saying about weight gain. Moreover, it’s underlying philosophy points directly to the sort of defeatism that is inherent to the approach. If Prof X or the others had gotten to 220 (or 200, or whatever) and been like “well, gaining has become tough, and I feel like some of the gains are fat…I guess this is as far as things will go,” then they never would have made it to where they ended up.
[quote]Gumpshmee wrote:
I think most people don’t have the patience to consider a 10 or 20 pound gain “a lot” of muscle for a year.[/quote]
No, I think that most people (including, up to this point, myself) don’t have the patience to say “Look, for a certain period I might not have the exact physique that I would like. But it’s a step in the direction of progressing towards a larger goal in the future.”
The big dudes on this forum have this idea right. Getting big (“bulking”) is about patience and delayed gratification. Your whole “people don’t have the patience” shpeel is bs for people who are actually interested in getting big.
The whole thing is a process and a journey. So don’t act like this whole “lean gains” ideology is so much holier than thou vis-a-vis folks that are just bulking in the more classic style.
Basically I don’t buy in that just because bodybuilders like Professor X gained weight in a shorter time frame that the long term rewards in terms of bodycomposition were so much greater to justify the obvious drawbacks of this approach (fat cell hyperplasia, chronically elevated insulin, etc).
At some point you exceed the law of diminishing returns. Yeah, yeah, we all remember that study about sumo wrestlers (Upper limit of fat-free mass in humans: A study on Japanese Sumo wrestlers). But as bodybuilders we’re ultimately interested in body composition.
Maybe it’s impatient to maintain a low body fat percentage, but when you try to rush the gaining process by ramming more calories down your gullet than your body will utilize towards your ultimate goal I call that impatience.
I’m not trying to say that everyone must maintain a certain optimal body fat percentage. I’m just fighting the notion that there aren’t any benefits to the slower approach depending on your ultimate goal, and your health priorities. It has yet to be explained to me why you would stop gaining muscle if you’re eating over your TDEE by a consistent but moderate quantity, adjusting upwards when weight stalls.
Not everyone is comparing themselves to Jay Cutler, or is interested in going beyond their natural muscular potential. A lot of people here hold health as a higher priority. The vast majority want to look and feel good. My advice is directed toward them for the most part and I’m assuming the OP is among that majority until I find out otherwise.
For the guys who can’t tolerate gaining muscle at any other rate than maximal keep doing what you’re doing, it’s your body.
So a total of more than 3000 Kcal at minimum… On weekends I go up to 4000…
I walk like 30 min a day too, and work hard (hard to split those meals so I just eat a lot)
I don’t really know what’s happening. My weight is the same, stalling between 158 to 159 pds…
ANy idea on how to improve this ?[/quote]
for a start I think your calorie counts are probably a bit dubious. What the macro breakdown food by food in this “1200 to 1600 Kcal” meal? Surely you know this if you can work out the calories.
Id echo everyones eat more advice but also offer something that helped me. Sort out your digestion. Make sure your body is actually using what you are currently putting in. A simple way to get this kick started IMO is to add some Betaine HCL to your large meals. This is probably more important if you used to eat significantly less than this before you started gaining.
It is unrealistic to give young trainees magical expectations by ignoring the fact that you can gain weight “too fast”.[/quote]
Magical expectations? Dude, you are the one doing that. You are the one ignoring GENETICS and how complex your own biology is and making it seem like what you want alone is how you should structure a plan of eating and training. Your body was designed to respond a certain way. Ignoring this because you think everyone can remain really lean and make optimal progress makes little sense.
Wait, so you have figured out how to predict the exact amount your body will supercompensate in a given time frame?
You know what, this really isn’t worth my time…because it has been discussed too much before.
Your body is not that predictable. In simple terms, if your body is ready to grow 3lbs of muscle and you are only feeding it enough to grow one based on what you THINK your body is limited to, you will make less overall progress in the long run than the guy making sure his body has everything it needs to grow optimally at all times.
You wrote something about not being happy with a 10lbs gain in a year.
You seem confused. Most of us understand that the guy literally trying to restrain his gains to somewhere around 1lbs a month will make less progress than the guy who gave his body everything it needed to make that ten pound gain of solid muscle.
It is unrealistic to give young trainees magical expectations by ignoring the fact that you can gain weight “too fast”.[/quote]
Magical expectations? Dude, you are the one doing that. You are the one ignoring GENETICS and how complex your own biology is and making it seem like what you want alone is how you should structure a plan of eating and training. Your body was designed to respond a certain way. Ignoring this because you think everyone can remain really lean and make optimal progress makes little sense.
Wait, so you have figured out how to predict the exact amount your body will supercompensate in a given time frame?
You know what, this really isn’t worth my time…because it has been discussed too much before.
Your body is not that predictable. In simple terms, if your body is ready to grow 3lbs of muscle and you are only feeding it enough to grow one based on what you THINK your body is limited to, you will make less overall progress in the long run than the guy making sure his body has everything it needs to grow optimally at all times.
You wrote something about not being happy with a 10lbs gain in a year.
You seem confused. Most of us understand that the guy literally trying to restrain his gains to somewhere around 1lbs a month will make less progress than the guy who gave his body everything it needed to make that ten pound gain of solid muscle.
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Im hoping to gain around 5kg this year (~10-12lb). Ive upped my calories so I am gaining weight, do you reccommend keep upping them, until the weight gain plateus - by that I mean reaches a maximum each week? Or just to where I am comfortable? Im confused.
I was/am happy with 1lb a month, as I’ve given myself what I believe to be plenty of time to reach my goal, as I am training twice on Mon and Fri, sometimes Thu too with HIIT plus weights due to work requirements.