I was doing some reading from a blog AC linked today in SAMA, and I found this part in particular really stuck a chord. Is our society choking itself? You have the extreme leftists destroying marriage and then you have the extreme right ignoring the important issues that if repaired, could work a long way to resolve their secondary issues.
Looking forward, I can see why this guy thinks that a massive shift in ideology is needed. And I’m starting to agree.
Thoughts?
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore.
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
This is very, very true.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Marriage has never been a bowl of roses. For over 98% of humanities history, you have been forced to live the rest of your life with someone you barely knew before marriage and many times didn’t particularly adore. Marriage was only about creating a new family unit; it wasn’t about love, having the perfect relationship, or happiness. Those are ideals you grew up reading in stories.
On the flip-side, society isn’t falling apart because the family unit is changing.
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Marriage has never been a bowl of roses. For over 98% of humanities history, you have been forced to live the rest of your life with someone you barely knew before marriage and many times didn’t particularly adore. Marriage was only about creating a new family unit; it wasn’t about love, having the perfect relationship, or happiness. Those are ideals you grew up reading in stories.
On the flip-side, society isn’t falling apart because the family unit is changing.
[/quote]
No, the family unit is changing because society is falling apart.
One of those pesky little unintended consequences.
Or the result of those unintended consequences, a third or fourth order consequence of you will.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Marriage has never been a bowl of roses. For over 98% of humanities history, you have been forced to live the rest of your life with someone you barely knew before marriage and many times didn’t particularly adore. Marriage was only about creating a new family unit; it wasn’t about love, having the perfect relationship, or happiness. Those are ideals you grew up reading in stories.
On the flip-side, society isn’t falling apart because the family unit is changing.
[/quote]
No, the family unit is changing because society is falling apart.
One of those pesky little unintended consequences.
Or the result of those unintended consequences, a third or fourth order consequence of you will. [/quote]
Society isn’t falling apart; it’s just changing to fit new circumstances where one person can support a family of four on their salary and kids don’t starve/freeze to death because they’re left home alone at an early age. Don’t forget that there have ALWAYS been problems of some kind, and no society has retained the exact same marriage/family traditions for any extended period of time.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Marriage has never been a bowl of roses. For over 98% of humanities history, you have been forced to live the rest of your life with someone you barely knew before marriage and many times didn’t particularly adore. Marriage was only about creating a new family unit; it wasn’t about love, having the perfect relationship, or happiness. Those are ideals you grew up reading in stories.
On the flip-side, society isn’t falling apart because the family unit is changing.
[/quote]
No, the family unit is changing because society is falling apart.
One of those pesky little unintended consequences.
Or the result of those unintended consequences, a third or fourth order consequence of you will. [/quote]
The erosion of the family unit in that way that no-fault divorce and alimony combined is speeding up the erosion process.
@kamui - Do you really think that’s the problem? I think the problem is that people have an easy out, so when something little goes wrong they can split and cut their losses. Back in “the day” you really had to justify a divorce (i.e. prove infidelity etc) instead of the way no-fault divorce trivializes it.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Exactly. Only one wife, no dowry and no concubines. It’s not right.
Interesting topic gentlemen. Same theme been discussed profuselly in the forums lately.
My personal view is that I see no point to getting married. I suppose if you were planning on starting a “family”, it could be an idea?
Although saying that, just recently I have been attending alot of weddings for friends. So there must be some attraction to getting married still?
I often cringe when I hear the girls at work talking about planning their weddings. I think they are missing the point, that after the wedding they have made a commitment to spend the “rest of the life with this person”. Or have they?
Will this ruin society? I highly doubt it. I think we have bigger problems to contend with.
tweet
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Exactly. Only one wife, no dowry and no concubines. It’s not right.[/quote]
Even in societies that condone polygamy, it’s rare to find more than 5% of the population engaging in it and the general belief is that it’s harder to manage than regular one on one marriage.
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Marriage has never been a bowl of roses. For over 98% of humanities history, you have been forced to live the rest of your life with someone you barely knew before marriage and many times didn’t particularly adore. Marriage was only about creating a new family unit; it wasn’t about love, having the perfect relationship, or happiness. Those are ideals you grew up reading in stories.
On the flip-side, society isn’t falling apart because the family unit is changing.
[/quote]
No, the family unit is changing because society is falling apart.
One of those pesky little unintended consequences.
Or the result of those unintended consequences, a third or fourth order consequence of you will. [/quote]
Society isn’t falling apart; it’s just changing to fit new circumstances where one person can support a family of four on their salary and kids don’t starve/freeze to death because they’re left home alone at an early age. Don’t forget that there have ALWAYS been problems of some kind, and no society has retained the exact same marriage/family traditions for any extended period of time. [/quote]
Our culture commits suicide right now.
We seem to have created a culture people do not want to bring children into.
Either we will simply die out, or we will be replaced by people who out reproduce us.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Exactly. Only one wife, no dowry and no concubines. It’s not right.[/quote]
In many ways it isnt.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Marriage has never been a bowl of roses. For over 98% of humanities history, you have been forced to live the rest of your life with someone you barely knew before marriage and many times didn’t particularly adore. Marriage was only about creating a new family unit; it wasn’t about love, having the perfect relationship, or happiness. Those are ideals you grew up reading in stories.
On the flip-side, society isn’t falling apart because the family unit is changing.
[/quote]
No, the family unit is changing because society is falling apart.
One of those pesky little unintended consequences.
Or the result of those unintended consequences, a third or fourth order consequence of you will. [/quote]
Society isn’t falling apart; it’s just changing to fit new circumstances where one person can support a family of four on their salary and kids don’t starve/freeze to death because they’re left home alone at an early age. Don’t forget that there have ALWAYS been problems of some kind, and no society has retained the exact same marriage/family traditions for any extended period of time. [/quote]
Our culture commits suicide right now.
We seem to have created a culture people do not want to bring children into.
Either we will simply die out, or we will be replaced by people who out reproduce us.
[/quote]
I notice with some alarm that there are British men turning to Sharia courts for divorce settlements.
Speaking of cultural suicide, has anyone seen or can verify the validity of this video.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
I was doing some reading from a blog AC linked today in SAMA, and I found this part in particular really stuck a chord. Is our society choking itself? You have the extreme leftists destroying marriage and then you have the extreme right ignoring the important issues that if repaired, could work a long way to resolve their secondary issues.
Looking forward, I can see why this guy thinks that a massive shift in ideology is needed. And I’m starting to agree.
Thoughts?[/quote]
Everything he lambasts social conversatives for, is important to the question. If you look at marriage as an institution in which everybody must have equal opportunity to express their individual civil rights, you’ll never reverse this.
Don’t get me wrong, this will turn around, in the distant future. But not because the graying, entitlement-broke society found some oh-so convenient secular, socially-liberal, hyper-individualist way to promote child-bearing and rearing in intact homes made up of father and mothers.
No, it’ll be because that old society will have replaced itself with the devout who were already among them, and with the devout they had to ship in to keep the economy and old-age welfare state going for as long as possible. These devout, actually bearing children. Basically, the righteous will inherent the earth. Again.
[quote]
@kamui - Do you really think that’s the problem? I think the problem is that people have an easy out, so when something little goes wrong they can split and cut their losses. Back in “the day” you really had to justify a divorce (i.e. prove infidelity etc) instead of the way no-fault divorce trivializes it.[/quote]
When we decided that marriage was (and should be) a romantic love story, marriage was condemned, and entered the death row.
the legalization of divorce, and the institution of no-fault divorce is just the method used to execute this death penalty.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
We made romantic love a prerequisite for marriage.
Now our marriages last three years.
[/quote]
We made marriage a shitty deal for men.
Now they dont marry anymore. [/quote]
Marriage has never been a bowl of roses. For over 98% of humanities history, you have been forced to live the rest of your life with someone you barely knew before marriage and many times didn’t particularly adore. Marriage was only about creating a new family unit; it wasn’t about love, having the perfect relationship, or happiness. Those are ideals you grew up reading in stories.
On the flip-side, society isn’t falling apart because the family unit is changing.
[/quote]
No, the family unit is changing because society is falling apart.
One of those pesky little unintended consequences.
Or the result of those unintended consequences, a third or fourth order consequence of you will. [/quote]
Society isn’t falling apart; it’s just changing to fit new circumstances where one person can support a family of four on their salary and kids don’t starve/freeze to death because they’re left home alone at an early age. Don’t forget that there have ALWAYS been problems of some kind, and no society has retained the exact same marriage/family traditions for any extended period of time. [/quote]
Our culture commits suicide right now.
We seem to have created a culture people do not want to bring children into.
Either we will simply die out, or we will be replaced by people who out reproduce us.
[/quote]
There isn’t a culture which is more advanced than us in terms of below-replacement-level population growth which is even close to dying off of the face the planet. When you show me one, I’ll believe this. Life is no longer about who has the most kids. If it was, Africa would be kicking Holland’s ass.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Don’t get me wrong, this will turn around, in the distant future. But not because the graying, entitlement-broke society found some oh-so convenient secular, socially-liberal, hyper-individualist way to promote child-bearing and rearing in intact homes made up of father and mothers.
No, it’ll be because that old society will have replaced itself with the devout who were already among them, and with the devout they had to ship in to keep the economy and old-age welfare state going for as long as possible. These devout, actually bearing children. Basically, the righteous will inherent the earth. Again.[/quote]
You understand that the righteous have never inherited the earth, right? It’s always been the most brutal group which beats the other into submission that inherits the territory.
Funny story to that end: when the Spanish invaded what’s now Mexico City, many surrounding tribes joined their effort and converted to their God after observing that he was more powerful and blood thirsty than their own. They joined Christianity because the Christian God was more fierce in their eyes than their Gods.