Creatine inflates HDL, but so does flax or fish oil and they may be the healthier option. Co-Q-10 will drop triglycerides in most people, supposedly so does lecithin (I’d go with sunflower over soy)
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Thinking about autoimmune diseases your PTH would be excellent, in the Coimbra Protocol they recommend below 10. Vitamin d increases intestinal calcium absorption, so if you reduce the consumption of dairy products and calcium supplements, it should drop. It is worth supplementing with vitamin k2 (mk7) 100mcg every 10,000iu of D3 and magnesium, between 400-600mg. By your numbers your sleep problem is caused by another factor. For me it works: magnesium 400mg, taurine 1g and melatonin 3mg before bed.
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This comment was made due to the colleague’s suspicion of having an autoimmune disease. In normal people, I agree with your statements. However, remember that there is also an inverse relationship between PTH and vitamin D levels.
There are thousands of patients with autoimmune diseases treated by the Coimbra Protocol, mainly Multiple Sclerosis, something that no drug is capable of reversing. In these patients, the calcium levels were normal and even so the PTH was high, all with genetic variations of vitamin D receptors, found that high doses of vitamin D resolves and the measure used to know the effectiveness of the treatment is PTH<10. It is something new, discovered in the last 10 years. Regarding calcium restriction, it is only indicated in patients who take high doses and vitamin d3, who get blood levels between 100 and 140ng, and we know that vitamin d increases the absorption of calcium in the intestine, in which case it can cause hypercalcemia.
At levels up to 100ng of d3 it is not necessary to restrict dairy products, just reducing consumption already resolves the calcium issue.
Search the pubmed “sleep apnea triglycerides”. You will see that there is a connection. Omega 3 not only improves triglycerides, it also improves sleep apnea. I did polysomnography before and after starting high doses of omega3, apneas dropped from 43 to 17. Studies show that DHA is the most beneficial in reducing apneas.
High PTH and normal calcium levels is not actually established as a real problem, because it isn’t. And there is not always an inverse relationship between Vitamin D levels and PTH.
Vitamin D is inert in it’s 25 OH form. D 1,25 however (The form created by PTH activation) directly raises blood calcium levels, without regard for the intestine and it’s function. Hypercalcemia is the product of stage 4 cancer, or hyperparathyroidism. Those are the two known causes. Calcium intake is not an issue, separate from these two causes, because your body excretes excess in urine. At a certain level it can no longer keep up, resulting in hypercalcemia (And thus the use of 24hr urine colllection testing for diagnostic purposes). Reducing consumption may starve a causative factor, but can AT BEST provide minor and temporary symptom relief. You can mask an problem , but that doesn’t actually fix it. If taking above a given amount of something causes health issues, that is by definition taking too much. The solution is to take less, not to go to extreme dietary measures in an effort to mask negative side effects of an ill-advised protocol.
No, it categorically does not. Next fallacy please.
More respect, please. All the accounts I give are from personal experiences based on scientific studies (currently, approximately 20,000 pubmed articles read about sleep apnea). Just because you don’t know something doesn’t mean it’s a fallacy.
I took the test with high doses after reading dozens of studies and empirical experiences that attested to the effectiveness on triglycerides and sleep apnea.
I had blood tests and polysomnography before and after using high doses of omega3, my triglycerides decreased from 540 to 230. Apneas from 43 to 17. Most interestingly, I was at the highest weight of my life.
Everything I’m talking about here is related to my research for 10 years and personal testing after more than 30 doctors have failed to improve my symptoms. I am sharing because like me, about 80% of sleep apnea patients do not adapt to cpap and live with a hormonal roller coaster, which subverts any normality. I also write for those who have autoimmune diseases, as many of the laboratory parameters of patients with apnea are similar to those of people with autoimmune diseases, such as high PTH.
“Long chain omega-3 fatty acids (FAs) are effective for reducing plasma triglyceride (TG) levels. At the pharmaceutical dose, 3.4 g/day, they reduce plasma TG by about 25-50% after one month of treatment”
“In addition, FO increases extracellular lipolysis by lipoprotein lipase (LpL) in adipose, heart and skeletal muscle and enhances hepatic and skeletal muscle β-oxidation which contributes to reduced FA delivery to the liver. FO could activate transcription factors which control metabolic pathways in a tissue specific manner regulating nutrient traffic and reducing plasma TG.”
“Intake of the vitamin E-rich fish oil resulted in a marked decrease in serum triglycerides (48%) and in fibrinogen (11%).”
“FO could activate transcription factors which control metabolic pathways in a tissue specific manner regulating nutrient traffic and reducing plasma TG.”
" Krill oil supplementation lowers serum triglycerides without increasing low-density lipoprotein cholesterol in adults with borderline high or high triglyceride levels"
“These findings suggest that disordered membrane fatty acid patterns may play a causal role in OSA and that the assessment of RBC DHA levels might help in the diagnosis of OSA. The effects of DHA supplementation on OSA should be explored.”
" In this study, the authors investigated the relationship between omega-3 fatty acid docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) levels in red blood cells (RBC) and OSA severity in 350 sequential patients undergoing sleep studies. The authors defined the severity categories as none/mild, moderate, and severe based on apnea hypopnea index scores of 0–14, 15–34, and >34, respectively (33). Briefly, they demonstrated that RBC DHA was inversely related to OSA severity and that for each 1-SD increase in DHA levels, a patient was approximately 50% less likely to be classified with severe OSA"
“several studies have clearly demonstrated that omega-3 FAs can help prevent coronary heart disease, reduce arrhythmias and thrombosis, lower plasma triglyceride levels, and reduce blood clotting tendency”
“For each 1-SD increase in DHA levels, a patient was about 50% less likely to be classified with severe OSA”
“that increasing the levels of marine omega-3 fatty acids in neuronal tissues can stabilize the upper airway innervations, musculature, and feedback control systems”
“Since severe OSA is associated with increased expression of several pro-inflammatory cytokines (especially increased levels of IL-6, TNF-α) and oxidative stress within the muscular compartments of upper airway tissue[19], the tissue concentration of the anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidative n-3 PUFAs may increase upper-airway muscle-contractile function via an improved upper airway muscle force-generating capacity of dilator muscles”
That’s very close to my current protocol. 10,000 iu D3, 100mcg K2, 600 mg magnesium glycinate, 5mg melatonin. The latter 2 taken at bed time.
TSH and T4 came back pretty normal as well. Still searching.
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Im already on 2 grams of cod liver oil a day
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No.
I have sleep apnea, I had hyperparathyroid hyperplasia, I have had high triglycerides, I have supplemented high dose Omega 3, and I have read a lot of studies. I am very familiar.
It is of not insignificant note that you are in a TRT forum, and not discussing TRT. You are, out of the blue, pushing an ideology involving high dose supplements. So, really, the question is, who is the new guy and when is the sales pitch? You want respect, earn it. Coimbra is firmly in the “Wilson Syndrome” category with Dr Wilson and his ridiculous one size fits all “Everyone has a thyroid problem” category.
Perhaps you still do not understand that: people with polymorphisms in genes related to vitamin D, have problems with both, absorption and conversion to 1.25 (OH), which results in an increase in PTH in these patients. Currently the only alternative for these patients is to take high doses of vitamin D, in these cases there is an extreme need for it to be done with medical monitoring. So this is a treatment for people with chronic illnesses, I think your comments are not considering this.
If this correction with high doses is not made, that person will, over the years, develop a chronic disease related to the gene with polymorphism. Research and you will see that all chronic diseases have in common: vitamin D deficiency and high PTH.
“Low 25(OH)D status leads to reduced efficiency in intestinal calcium absorption, and the body reacts by increasing the secretion of parathyroid hormone (PTH)”
“The association between parathyroid hormone (PTH) and vitamin D may be an important determinant of bone remodeling, mainly in the elderly. A negative and significant correlation was found between PTH and 25(OH)D levels in the present study. Individuals with low vitamin D levels were those who had higher values of PTH, while individuals with high values of vitamin D showed low values of PTH. Similar results were observed in healthy individuals in Australia and Riga, and a value of 38 ng/mL was suggested as sufficient to avoid an increase in PTH”
"Patients with OSA had significantly higher serum levels of PTH "
Maybe if you read from the beginning, understand why I got to vitamin D, Omega 3, PTH …
I quote throughout my testimonials that I have had unsuccessful experiences with TRT previously, precisely because the issue was not just testosterone deficiency. Currently I restarted TRT a few months ago and with the use of not so high doses of vitamin D, after reading 3 books and hundreds of articles, I started to have great success at trt. I started to lose weight, something that was impossible before, even with TRT (5 years ago an endocrinologist put me on testosterone, GH and dozens of supplements).
So all I’m reporting is to help those like me who have apnea or autoimmune diseases to have an optimized TRT by adjusting extra factors.
I also shared articles on the relationship between muscle strength and vitamin D status, including TNation’s own articles on vitamin D and bodybuilding.
I don’t gain anything by writing for so long here. I only do it in order to share what I have learned and tested.
If you have nothing to gain from what I write, I don’t understand why you would be here just to cause confusion.
Have you measured vitamin A recently? I say because cod oil is very rich in vitamin A. Too high vitamin A can make sleep worse, it happened to me.
Do your complementary thyroid exams. Maybe it’s the conversion to free t3, especially considering that your daughter has Hashimoto.
Have you tested Taurine or Theanine? Before increasing D3 and sunning myself daily, I had considerable improvements by taking 1gram of taurine 1 or 2 hours before bed. In fact I was impressed with the amount of impressive studies on Taurine. There is even an International Congress that takes place annually just to debate new studies on taurine.
Apnea patients have high cerebral glutamate, which stimulates and disrupts relaxing sleep. Taurine inhibits glutamate by increasing Gaba.
Correlation is not causation. I have read and am familiar with the studies here quoted. They do not establish a link in the way that you are saying. They showed that people with certain (not all) chronic diseases have elevated PTH and low vitamin D. A lower calcium level will result in elevated PTH, but that does not make elevated PTH a problem or something to be treated. It reveals merely that the body is responding in exactly the way it should to hypocalcemia in these people. The solution is to do something about the root cause of the hypocalcemia,and that is not indicated to involve any genetic mutation factors. While it is true that there are people that exist that do not process Vitamin D well, it is generally an issue in the production of vitamin D by the skin in the presence of UV light, and there is no reason to believe or expect that elevating Vit D OH 25 would in any way lead to greater D 1,25 if a person had a genetic issue with conversion of one to the other. It would in this instance be more practical, less invasive, and overall easier and healthier to treat the person with calcitriol - the actual treatment for this problem.
Age induced absorbption coupled with vitamin d deficiency related to lack of sun exposure (The study is following old sick people, not normal people) could theoretically be helped with MODERATE supplemantation of Vitamin D, to replace what they are not getting from the sun. This is, in actuality different than the proposed and generalized idea that they suddenly have a gene mutation in later life. You cannot simply apply studies blindly to your desired conclusion, you have to draw a conclusion based on evidence.
I see that you are translating this. I am not fluent in Portuguese or Brasiliero or I would write in your lengua materna for you. Massive dosing of Vitamin D can actually be unsafe, and is not well tolerated by everyone. It also does not have universal positive effects. It makes no difference at all to my apnea, test levels, or most other things. And I say that from an empirical standpoint - I did labs when I experimented, and sleep studies.
Never had vit A measured that I remember. I have no problems sleeping. Slight apnea due to large uvula and still have tonsils along with a slightly deviated septum. A mouth guard cures it all.
I tried to get them all done but doc only agreed to T4 and that came back normal. Trying to avoid paying out of pocket for additional tests.
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I understand your position perfectly. However, true science is not immutable, day by day we see new evidence undoing old truths. Everything you put is exactly what I spent my life reading, but in the last few years a new trend has emerged showing new possibilities. We don’t have to agree, just debate with respect.
I understand your prudence with new therapeutics , as I agree that there are many charlatans in this area. Everything is very new and needs to be evaluated by studies with better methodology. Unfortunately, most of the studies are funded by the pharmaceutical industry, which is not interested in something without a patent.
But the empirical evidence from thousands of treated cases, including me, cannot be dismissed. For the past 25 years I have lived with extreme fatigue, chronic insomnia, severe sleep apnea, pain throughout my body, difficulty in recovering from training and gaining muscle mass and losing weight. As I reported, even with TRT, I didn’t get any improvements. But just 3 days after taking 20.000iu of d3 and sunbathing, I just started to have the best sleep and energy of the last 25 years.
I don’t want to suggest that everyone do this and I definitely don’t think it’s the cure for everything. I only report so that others in the same situation can investigate whether they could benefit from such therapy.
Empirical evidence is consistent with thousands of studies on vitamin D that have been published. The experiences are being replicated on several continents with wide success, as we can see in the various books written by Brazilian, Portuguese, Indian and American doctors.
For those who are suffering, unfortunately traditional medicine has been a major failure. I myself went through approximately 30 doctors, including sleep specialists, neurologists, psychiatrists, endocrinologists, nutrologists, nutritionists. In the end, what matters to the patient is to have their disease alleviated or resolved.
We know that these experiences are still being experimented, however the clinic is sovereign. On giving calcitriol directly, I have already seen the explanations for not using such an approach, but the explanations are complex for my current understanding. More than a dozen genes have been linked to vitamin D malabsorption. Anyway, it’s just my success story, I wish you a good Sunday.
As I reported earlier, I underwent 2 surgeries to improve nasal obstacles and I am currently in the fifth month of maxillary expansion surgery. Unfortunately, I did not get any improvements with such interventions, but it is important to correct these issues because with aging they tend to get worse. Good luck in your quest for health!
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I believe that my successful experience can be replicated only in cases of apnea considered idiopathic. In my case, I investigated all the possibilities of physical obstructions, such as deviation of the large uvula septum, malformation of the maxilla, retrognathism, adenoids, large tonsils, large tongue, obesity. I did 3 surgeries, two in the nose and after a cephalometry, I identified a small deficiency in the upper jaw, which could cause respiratory problems. I underwent maxillary expansion surgery, but unfortunately I didn’t get any results. As I never adapted to cpap and had apnea even when I was an ectomorph, I started to investigate other causes.
There are some theories for idiopathic obstructive sleep apnea: brain traumas, specific nutrient deficiencies, of genetic origin and a more alternative that suggests that sleep apnea may be an autoimmune disease. I tested all possibilities with doctors considered good in their fields. Unfortunately, doctors currently only update themselves at annual conferences, paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. In my family we have a lot of doctors and I notice that there is great conservatism and resistance to new concepts. Many of the doctors I consulted studied at renowned universities in the USA. And it was always very embarrassing as a patient, to be more up to date on the subject of Sleep Apnea than the doctors.
Honestly, the bad years I spent living with this disease, killed my ego.
So I don’t want to be sure, I just want to have health and energy to live and I did it with this approach, that’s why I’m excited to share.
This does not actually constitute evidence. It constitutes marketing without verifiable backup. Books mean little, peer reviewed published studies hold more weight, but only as far as being worth consideration. You are confusing a story with a study. I am by no means pro Western medicine uniformly, but experience (And I live in Latin America right now, but have lived on multiple continents) has taught me that virtually all - if not all - “Altternative” medicine concepts are at best worthless. Usually they are harmful in some way. And yet people continue to cling to them even after suffereing measurable direct harm, because that’s what they want.
And I am not in a “Quest for health”, that is an equally nonsensical thing. I feel quite fine.