[quote]hedo wrote:
Ah the true sign of a weak mind…personal insults.
[/quote]
Yet nearly every post of yours to him has included a personal insult. How odd.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
hedo wrote:
Ah the true sign of a weak mind…personal insults.
Yet nearly every post of yours to him has included a personal insult. How odd.[/quote]
Professor coming from you how funny.
Have you gone a day where you didn’t attack someone here?. Your credibility is zero in that regard. How many threads have you killed with your arrogance?
I always give someone their space…read. I answer attacks don’t start them.
Figured you would sympathize with Alex…so much alike.
Alex
You are arguing technology and naval history, we digress into a discussion of the British Navy and you make, to me, a silly comment.
Admiral, Lord, Nelson was Britian’s greatest Naval hero. The battle of Trafalgar was the cornerstone of British Naval Dominance for the next 125 years.
You have used a PC text as your reference. I find it unusual. My point to you is this. A command of the facts is more important then a politcal agenda. Read all of Mr. Curtain you would like, to me he is useful. If you want to learn about history, particularly naval history, and it’s effect on world commerce, balance it out, with something factual. It’s a fascinating story and it was based out of Europe. It doesn’t make it wrong. It is Eurocentric.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
hedo wrote:
Ah the true sign of a weak mind…personal insults.
Yet nearly every post of yours to him has included a personal insult. How odd.
Professor coming from you how funny.
Have you gone a day where you didn’t attack someone here?. Your credibility is zero in that regard. How many threads have you killed with your arrogance?
I always give someone their space…read. I answer attacks don’t start them.
Figured you would sympathize with Alex…so much alike.
[/quote]
What does this have to do with I wrote? You are a hypocrite. You claim he is lower in intelligence for his attack but you aren’t for yours? I can take as much as I give. I wouldn’t have made the comment you did. Deal with it. You called yourself out. Instead of simply proving him wrong if he is, you claim it is beneath you. You are the one who sounds like he’s grasping.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Alex
You are arguing technology and naval history, we digress into a discussion of the British Navy and you make, to me, a silly comment.
[/quote]
I suspect it seemed silly because you chose to interpret it in the most ridiculous way possible. I didn’t mention the ship-of-the-line, you did. And you say the privateer wasn’t a pirate ship, but was it not the custom to loot enemy ships? I have seen in numerous sources that this was just how things went, and the state encouraged it.
Sure, it might be important, but just not to me. I am not discussing british naval history, that was just a small footnote in the argument. My only interest in discussing it was to mention how important the trade routes were (Admiral Nelson’s career also highlights this), and how the commercial ships engaged in warfare. The latter was partly to show the effect of the wealth europe had accumulated over the last few centuries on technology. Because if you look at the 19th century, you see a sudden increase in land power (breech-loading rifles, clip-fed magazines, machineguns (I think, I’m too lazy to look up the exact year they were introduced), and large professional armies. In Naval technology, you see riverboats, ocean-going steamships, and armour.
[quote]
You have used a PC text as your reference. I find it unusual. My point to you is this. A command of the facts is more important then a politcal agenda. Read all of Mr. Curtain you would like, to me he is useful. If you want to learn about history, particularly naval history, and it’s effect on world commerce, balance it out, with something factual. It’s a fascinating story and it was based out of Europe. It doesn’t make it wrong. It is Eurocentric. [/quote]
I am not saying that a eurocentric account of history is wrong, and it is sometimes unavoidable (since europe was very important for a couple of centuries), as long as you don’t get blinded by this. Curtin may be “PC”, but that doesn’t make him wrong. Other people actually were doing things, as well. And believe it or not, Curtin isn’t the only reference I used in this thread. I only listed it in case someone was concerned with where my info came from (and because it was too difficult for me to cross-reference it). But guess what? But like I said, if you want me to list all my references, and to check everything out in multiple sources, someone is going to have to start paying me.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
hedo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
hedo wrote:
Ah the true sign of a weak mind…personal insults.
Yet nearly every post of yours to him has included a personal insult. How odd.
Professor coming from you how funny.
Have you gone a day where you didn’t attack someone here?. Your credibility is zero in that regard. How many threads have you killed with your arrogance?
I always give someone their space…read. I answer attacks don’t start them.
Figured you would sympathize with Alex…so much alike.
What does this have to do with I wrote? You are a hypocrite. You claim he is lower in intelligence for his attack but you aren’t for yours? I can take as much as I give. I wouldn’t have made the comment you did. Deal with it. You called yourself out. Instead of simply proving him wrong if he is, you claim it is beneath you. You are the one who sounds like he’s grasping.[/quote]
You calling someone a hypocrite for responding to a personal attack, that’s ironic. Why don’t you deal with that Professor. You created your reputation not me. Are you saying that you are above insults and personal attacks now?
What I did point out is that Alex has been misled by those striving to be PC and that the actual facts are different from what he believes. I explained to him why I think he is wrong and then realized he did not really have a firm grasp of the subject matter. I was then called an idiot for not viewing things his way.
I’d like to point out how Hedo has said I’d be more polite in person, and he is not the first person to have said this. To clear all doubt, I am not. I am exactly the same, and I am very careful not to present myself in a misleading way. I said things like if you believe europe is the only place with history, you are an idiot. I never called you an idiot, but if you choose to fit into that category, that’s your business. I said there is a difference between being PC, and not being a dumbass. I stand by that, way too many people use “PC” as a discrediting insult. Just because something fits with the zeitgeist doesn’t necessarily make it wrong. A previous zeitgeist isn’t necessarily better than a current one. I like Curtin, because he acknowledges that things happened outside of europe, and does a pretty good job of fitting it all together.
I also have a problem with the term “revisionist”. Sometimes, you discover that previously held beliefs are incorrect, and need to be changed. The idea that the previous understanding of world history was flawless, and must never be tampered with is ridiculous. On an interesting tangent, in the USSR and in Cuba, the word “revisionist” was thrown around as one of the most powerful insults there was. If you suggested one of Marx’s ideas was incorrect, or no longer applicable, you were a revisionist, and nothing you said mattered. The result of this dogma was stagnation. Nothing improved, because improving things would be revising, and that’s evil. “Revisionist” is a stupid, stupid insult.
If you don’t think “hmmm maybe what I learned was one-sided”, or “maybe there was more to it than this” every time you hear a new position, you have no business talking about any subject of importance. The arrogance that leads you to assume that your generation, your school, or your family had it right, and everyone else is a moron will stop your intellectual growth as seriously as mental retardation. But at the same time, you call me close-minded. I don’t know how old you are, but it seems to me you have a lot of growing up to do.
[quote]hedo wrote:
You calling someone a hypocrite for responding to a personal attack, that’s ironic. Why don’t you deal with that Professor. You created your reputation not me. Are you saying that you are above insults and personal attacks now?[/quote]
Reading comprehension low today? No, that isn’t what I am saying at all. YOU, my dear friend, are the one who stated that someone’s intelligence must be compromised if they use a personal attack…after you have written many in this thread. That is called “hypocrisy”. Sorry if that burns. My “reputation” is just fine. How’s yours?
Alek
I respect your arguments but disagree with them completely. My encouragement to you is too learn all the facts before relying on the PC versions. I love Naval History so to me Nelson is a central and pivotal historical figure.
Just so you know Hiram Maxim, an American, invented the first Machine Gun that worked and if I am not mistaken the repeating rifle was pateneted in the US. Not sure what that did for European land armies but it helped the US Armies.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
hedo wrote:
You calling someone a hypocrite for responding to a personal attack, that’s ironic. Why don’t you deal with that Professor. You created your reputation not me. Are you saying that you are above insults and personal attacks now?
Reading comprehension low today? No, that isn’t what I am saying at all. YOU, my dear friend, are the one who stated that someone’s intelligence must be compromised if they use a personal attack…after you have written many in this thread. That is called “hypocrisy”. Sorry if that burns. My “reputation” is just fine. How’s yours?
[/quote]
It’s wonderful…Have a great day.
Alek
The internet creates bravery by virtue of it being anonymous. You can get away with saying things in a boorish or obnoxious tone. These types of things tend to get you ignored in person or worse.
So you may be the exact same way in person. Fantastic, you have no doubt reached a stage of self fuffilment you are satisfied with.
A lot of growing up to do? I’m 42, married with kids and a business. I don’t think you’ll school me much. As I recall you were still in school, weren’t you? Hoping to land that first job and expousing the virtues of Communism?
Although it’s been fun I don’t think your getting it and it’s getting a little boring at this point…no doubt for everyone else too, anything else?
Forgive the tardiness of my reply, I had to try to get the ethics application put through for a study I’m conducting, and it was taking up most of my time.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Alek
I respect your arguments but disagree with them completely. My encouragement to you is too learn all the facts before relying on the PC versions. I love Naval History so to me Nelson is a central and pivotal historical figure.
[/quote]
Your knowledge of naval history is not in question. I personally don’t know that much about british naval history, but then one person can’t specialize in everything, can they? I find it much more useful to know a little about everything, and in that way I can understand why things happened (or at least try to). On that note, I’m still not clear on what you are disagreeing with. Later posters took the argument in the exact direction I was planning. In a very simplified way, here is my hypothesis regarding what happened:
- Europe develops very good ships => 2) Europe is able to establish and protect ocean trade routes => 3) Europe’s trade routes expose it to new foreign technologies, and provide enough wealth for europe to develop its own new tech => 4) Europe finally becomes dominant on land => 5) Europe colonizes most of the world.
When the slave trade began, european land dominance did not yet exist. The fact that europeans paid africans to capture other africans supports this idea, and the idea that europe’s strength was economic, and not so much military, at this time (otherwise, why wouldn’t they always capture their own slaves for free?). As a disclaimer, this part of my argument is my own, and I have not seen it anywhere else. As such, I may be way off. If so, explain to me how.
That’s my argument. I was later going to mention how I believe racism was a product of slavery, and not vice versa, although I had not read that anywhere else, and didn’t realize it was a widely discussed idea. In what way do you disagree with what I have said?
Not exactly, the british puckle gun was invented long before the maxim gun (1718 vs 1885?). There was also the french mitrailleuse (although not really a machine gun; 1860ish), and the gatling gun (also american, 1860s) Yes, these (the maxim in particular) did help the europeans enormously. It was ridiculous how effective it was; it made fighting off europeans practically impossible until the weapons gap started closing at the end of the 19th/beginning of the 20th century.
Satisfied? not a chance. I just make sure who I am and who I claim to be are always the same. You could almost definately kick my ass, but you wouldn’t.
No… well, sort of. Yes, I am still in school, and I will likely be in school for most of my life. Let’s just say I could leave school right now if I wanted to, and not worry about my employability. No, I am not looking for a first job, I have been working, often full-time, since I was 16, and I have been supporting myself since before then (I used to buy groceries with money from my paper route). Virtues of communism? not yet. First I have to make sure whoever I am discussing with understands what communism is, and we never got anywhere near there. I don’t see the relevance of this, though. Your chronological age and your level of maturity are pretty different things. I suggest you re-read your posts, and then decide if you were being immature or not. It seemed to me (and I could be wrong) that you were more interested in showing how much you know than you were in having a discussion.
Since we are not really furthering the discussion of Slavery good or bad I don’t feel the need to waste any more time on this.
I disagree with many of the factual points you made and will leave it at that.
Your tone sounds a lot more respectful. If you continue to be respectful you will most likely be treated the same. If you don’t, you will not.
I do agree with your comment that slavery furthered racism against those enslaved. Thomas Sowell has said the same in much of his writing. People disagree with much of his other work but on this point I agree with him and you.
Have a great day!