You need to give it more than two months. That said, that program looks pretty ordinary - it’s basically Starting Strength with a bunch of bodybuilding stuff added to it.
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That’s why I picked it in the first place, because it has both strength and bodybuilding in it. Do you think it will still help me progress?
Starting strength has done a lot for people, so I’ve been doing this because it has both strength and bodybuilding workouts.
Is it true that a 5x5 will only build strength and not muscle?
The programs posted above are confusing me, so I wonder if I should just stick with this. I’m struggling with some of the progressive overload though, because I suck at barbell rows and I can’t seem to get them right. My back is horrible weak. And rows and deadlifts enough for your back to grow?
And I’m so damn confused with the nutrition portion. I’m terrified to bulk because I don’t want to gain even more fat. Is maintaining my weight going to do anything?
Lol I wish I had half decent genetics at least. I can’t make my own plan as I’m not knowledgable enough yet. Why do people say that you have to do 8+ reps to build muscle? That said, I don’t really feel a burn while doing 5 rep sets but I do feel tired and exhausted after.
In fact I’ve been lifting for almost 2 years on and off, but only on a properly structured program ( 5x5 ) for 2 months. They say a good novice program should focus on the core lifts like this one does. Another popular one is fierce 5 but I don’t like that one because it only has 3 sets instead of 5.
So even if I’m not feeling a burn, am I still getting growth?
And what about nutrition?
If I lift heavy and continue to cut what will happen? And I don’t know why I just gained fat when bulking?
If you’re muscles aren’t growing, you’re either 1) not eating enough 2) not eating enough protein 3) not working hard enough in the gym 4) haven’t been doing any combo of 1-3 long enough.
June to August is not much time for muscle growth. You need to patiently push yourself for much longer to see real gains. You’ve seen decent gains in that time frame.
So do your cut while maintaining your lifts, get your body fat % down to a level you’re comfortable with, then get back at it without over eating. If you’re pushing yourself in the gym, you generally don’t need to stuff your face & put on tons of fat to see your lifts go up, especially at the beginner level.
What do you mean by combo of 1-3?
Can i get big all around by doing the ICF 5x5 program? Is it possible to build all around size with just the main compound lifts and a few isolation exercises?
I look literally no different than I did before and it’s really frustrating. So if I go ahead and cut am I going to lose strength or can my lifts keep going upwards?
If I have bad genetics am I screwed to be small and weak forever?
What gains have I seen? Nothing physical just some strength.
And really, the original numbers were actually mid July numbers so those increases have been in 6 weeks or so.
This is workout B of icf 5x5:
Squat 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Press 5x5
BB Rows 5x5
Close Grip Press 3x8
Curls 3x8
Crunches 3x8
In some weeks, you’re doing that twice a week plus adding lbs to the bar each workout. You would be insane to do that on a “cut” IMO.
I know it’s tough. Is this too much volume or???
Is the program going to help me build strength and muscle? I picked it because it has strength and bodybuilding exercises in it. Please advise me. I also can’t always add lbs every time ( I try to add them on the compounds but I struggle with the OHP ) usually I’m increasing my squat every time but my accessories like barbell curl I struggle to ever increase
I read this
https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/bulking-diet-delusion
I’m at 22% bodyfat. Now that is way too much. And I’m concerned because bulking up at my weight will lead to even more fat storage and less muscle growth, and that’s exactly what I experienced. My muscles look " soft " as described in this article too. I absolutely need some definition. And I would not feel right bulking at this point. The decision is so hard. Am I able to keep increasing my lifts while on this cut? I absolutely want to lose some bodyfat and then rebulk and do it the right way next time
When you read articles like this, you need have prior knowledge of the things he brings up. Then you need to look at the structure in which the article is written.
- A lot of the things brought up occur when approaching morbid obesity or when you are gaining weight like an idiot, which usually results in obesity.
E.g, “This process is called adipogenesis, and it occurs during periods of intense weight gain and caloric surplus.”
- At no time does he state that going over 12% will result in these things. In fact, there is NOTHING in the article that supports not going over 12%(see point 1. I’m not making this up. Read through the article reeallyy carefully.). Notice it is only brought up at the end of the article as an opinion along with statements such as:
“But gaining five pounds of fat to gain one pound of muscle is a bad idea.”
Which is not what anyone will do if they know what they are doing at any level of bodyfat.
So, the summary of the article would be as such:
Gaining weight too fast and approaching morbid obesity will result in really shitty things happening. Here’s a list of them. Don’t exceed 12% bodyfat.
Does this make sense to you?
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Just do 531.
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I have also read about the 5/3/1 before and it seems ok, but for example. If I’m doing the ICF 5x5, can it help build both strength and muscle? We have the heavy compound lifts plus bodybuilding accessory work. Wouldn’t that build both strength and muscle?
Are deadlifts and rows enough for the back to get big? I was wanting to do lat pulldowns too because my back is much weaker than the rest of me but I don’t know
Yes, but if I were you, I would do something with a sustainable progression model and which is easily adaptable for different set-ups and training days according to your needs and preferences as you progress. This ensures long term gains.
This is just a suggestion that I hope guides your thought process. You can do anything you believe in that makes you attack the weights with full intensity.
I have yet to see beginners who know how to row with maximal lat activation so I would strongly suggest you do a vertical pull as well.
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Thanks. Is there a reason you believe the ICF 5x5 is not sustainable? I’ve read some program on T nations including the ones suggested above but they just look too complicated for me as a beginner when I can probably get the best gains out of repeatedly practicing the compound movements.
I was thinking I could add a lat pulldowns to workout B on the ICF? My lat pulldowns are bad I can only pull like 80lbs for 10. How many sets and reps should I do?
My workout take a long time, I have to learn to manage my time better because I don’t know how long to take between each set. I like the accessory work too though.
I hope this will be sustainable on my small cut.
If I wanted to do 100 bodyweight push ups every single day too would that hurt my progress in any way? Even if I did them on my rest days too.
I was thinking of switching the close grip bench on ICF workout b for an incline bench since I want to work my upper chest more and I already use a fairly close grip on my regular bench, what do you think?
This is why I’m telling you to do 531. You are stuck with a rigid program template but want to add and replace stuff. Plus, how long can you sustain adding 5lbs to each lift each workout and performing the same amount of reps, especially on a cut?
Personally, I don’t care for programs unless they are designed for a specific purpose like peaking. You pick something that you believe in and then you stick to it. That’s it. Doesn’t have to be more complicated than this.
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Hi there. I’m 15. I used to be skinny fat too. I’ve been consistent with my training for 8 months, but my diet wasn’t really on point until about 2 months ago. Let me tell you, during those two months my lifts skyrocketed (I can conventional deadlift 320 lbs. now) and I felt better physically than I ever have. Diet is the absolute key to success, no matter what program you are using. You can’t outtrain bad nutrition. Eat big and eat clean. Get Myfitnesspal, it’s free and it helped me tons in tracking my macros. Try to hit around your own bodyweight in protein each day, eat a sustainable amount of healthy fats from nuts and such, and don’t neglect carbs. Rice is great. Tip: avoid Muscle Milk at all costs. A 40% carb/30% fat/30% protein split is sufficient. Try to hit this in around 3,000 calories, and eat 3x a day. Also, try the Stronglifts 5x5 program if you’re looking for something different. Best of luck!
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Stop whinging. You’re a man in a year, start practising now.
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Start focusing on putting weight on your big compound movements. Ever seen a pathetic physique repping 405lbs back squats?
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No point cutting now. You don’t have enough muscle already and you arnt even that chubby. Get strong, than cut. It will be easier by than.
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Have patience. In 2 months your squat went up 100 pounds… And your bitching about that?
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Pick a program that you like and that has a strength progression built into it (someone mention 5/3/1?).
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Don’t be surprised if you get fat when you add 1000calories to your diet. Muscle builds slowly. Eat just above maintenance and monitor your fat gain via pictures once a week. Adjust calories or macros in small amounts.
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Good luck and try to enjoy the journey of becoming stronger.
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As a ex “skinny fat syndrome” sufferer, I want to give you some little advices:
1 - RELAX. Stop worrying about your body fat, your muscle, your routine, your gains etc.
2 - Take your time. All bodies are different and responds different to training. Pick a solid workout plan, stick to it for almost 6 months. You will see great gains.
3 - Go for the clean bulk. Eat enough protein and adjust your carbs around your workout plan.
Building muscle and strenght is a long time fight. Be consistent and you’ll see gains like never before.
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you’re not “skinny-fat;” you’re just untrained.
Lift weights 4 times a week (5/3/1 is perfect) and concentrate on eating good, nutritious foods with ample protein.
Give it 5 years and see where it takes you. It really is that simple.
And oh my god do not cut. Fat guys with a ton of muscle can cut. Guys like you just need to get in shape.
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My doctor has told me I am bordering on overweight and I have to cut down on some of bodyfat. And I don’t feel comfortable with the amount of fat I’ve got either