i wrote up this long ass response to your good morning and the damn thing got deleted somehow.
anyway… i think that if you like good mornings you should get a bit lower. definitely not parallel but lower. also i would take the stance out to where you squat to get the hips involved.
i actually prefer RDL’s over good mornings anyday. they are a great posterior chain developer while still protecting the lower back. i don’t like good mornings because of how far the bar is out from the body. it puts a ton of stress directly on the spine.
just my opinion.
i would also look into doing zerchers off of pins.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i wrote up this long ass response to your good morning and the damn thing got deleted somehow.
anyway… i think that if you like good mornings you should get a bit lower. definitely not parallel but lower. also i would take the stance out to where you squat to get the hips involved.
i actually prefer RDL’s over good mornings anyday. they are a great posterior chain developer while still protecting the lower back. i don’t like good mornings because of how far the bar is out from the body. it puts a ton of stress directly on the spine.
just my opinion.
i would also look into doing zerchers off of pins.
[/quote]
No prob-- I appreciate the PM response as well-- THANKS!
LEF is having a sale on blood panels, so I took the leap and ordered the male panels to see how the ol’ T:E is looking.
I had it delivered because the nearest LabCorp (which LEF uses) is almost 2 hrs away. I figured I’ll just drive 10 minutes to the hospital.
The hospital absolutely refused to take blood insisting that I have a scrip from a doctor. What a pain in the ass. So after all that, I have to end up driving to New Hampshire! The medical system is fucked-- at least up here.
BB Shrug: 20, 20, 15@315
1-arm DB shrug: 120x15, 140x9
BB Bench: Bar x 20, 135x15*
Rec. Bike: 30 mins
I want to start getting the groove on my bench again. I figure my shoulders are warmed up or fried, and I’m not going to go with significant weight. I used a moderately close grip to emphasize triceps. These felt very light and indeed I felt them in my arms and to a lesser extent in my pecs. Shoulders felt great.
On that note, I was talking to a friend of mine who has a S.L.A.P. tear in his shoulder and is scheduled for surgery. He gave me the name of his shoulder guy with good recommendation, so I’m going to see what he has to say. The worse thing is I get an XRay or MRI out of it…
Leg Press:
6pps x 8 + 15 calf raises
7pps x 12 + 8 calf raises
BW squats x 20 something x 2
Foam Roll, stretch, limp away, eat.
Did a Wendler-esque approach to squats tonight. 5/3/1 book is great as most of you know already. Thought I’d jump on board with some of that.
I’m not going to do the program in it’s entirety, but a hybrid version. Certainly for squats. I’ll probably incorporate this into deadlift as well. Maybe bench, but I want to clear up the shoulder with the D.O. before I embark on a bench program.
I like my split right now and don’t want to switch it up too much. The squat and deadlift days fit right in.
Leg Press:
6pps x 8 + 15 calf raises
7pps x 12 + 8 calf raises
BW squats x 20 something x 2
Foam Roll, stretch, limp away, eat.
Did a Wendler-esque approach to squats tonight. 5/3/1 book is great as most of you know already. Thought I’d jump on board with some of that.
I’m not going to do the program in it’s entirety, but a hybrid version. Certainly for squats. I’ll probably incorporate this into deadlift as well. Maybe bench, but I want to clear up the shoulder with the D.O. before I embark on a bench program.
I like my split right now and don’t want to switch it up too much. The squat and deadlift days fit right in.[/quote]
Damn nice session Steely!
here’s what my inexperienced eye caught:
Your front squats (nice depth) were deeper than your back squats. Back squats may have been just a touch high and it also looked like your hips may have been rising a touch faster than your shoulders.
Compared to the guy behind you in the smith machine - everything was perfect…
that camera angle is good for checking depth but not good for checking form. to check form i would need to see it at an angle from the front so that i could see if your knees were rolling in and what the upper body is doing.
from what i could see, you are making a few common mistakes. mostly on the back squat. the front squat looked pretty good but i would guess that if you added weight i would see some of the same things on the front squat.
first off the elbows dictate tightness. mostl people don’t realize this. go back and watch your squat again. in the beginning of the squat you did a pretty good job at keeping the weight over your hips. as you got fatigued the weight started to get in front of you and you had to good morning the weight up some.
the reason this happened was because you allowed your upper body to get loose and your elbows drifted back. as a rule of thumb, you should try your best to keep your elbows under the bar and then as you drive out of the hole, you should try to push your elbows forward. think of a person standing in front of you with cables attached to your elbows and they are pulling them forward. doing this will keep the weight over the hips, keep your back arched and maintain your tightness.
like soldog said, you hips were rising first on some of the last reps. this is your bodies way of trying to maintain balance because the weight got in front of you. people often comment that the hips are rising first but to correct the problem you have to address the real problem. the body will always attempt to maintain balance. if you keep the weight centered over your hips, then your form will be spot on.
another example of the bodie’s attempt to maintain balance is when the knees roll in. the body will transfer stress to the quads in an attempt to maintain balance and finish the lift. i can’t be sure without seeing a vid of you from a better angle, but it looked like you may have some of that going on as well. the best way to fix that issue is to push out with your knees throughout the lift. keep constant pressure at all times. this will keep the stress on the much stronger hips, protect the knees and put you in a much stronger and better leverage position.
finally on those front squats, keep thos elbows high at all times. chock yourself with the bar and force the elbows high and just like regular squats, keep forcing them up throughout the lift.
get a better video and i’ll have a better idea of what you are doing.
here’s my setup on front squats. notice how i really force the bar up against my throat.
I noticed I was the coming forward after a few reps as well.
Interestingly, I’m not as deep in the back squat I as I thought I was.
MM- so, if I’m reading correctly, pushing elbows forward and pushing out through the knees should help alleviate this a little? Is this where boxsquats come in as well?
I noticed I was the coming forward after a few reps as well.
Interestingly, I’m not as deep in the back squat I as I thought I was.
MM- so, if I’m reading correctly, pushing elbows forward and pushing out through the knees should help alleviate this a little? Is this where boxsquats come in as well?
Next week, I’ll try to vid from the front.
Meat, you’re vids are golden. Thanks![/quote]
most of the time people think they are deeper than they are. a good way of getting depth is to get into the rack and have someone watch you from the side. set the pins so that you tap them when you hit depth.
yeah… elbows and knees will keep the weight over your hips. box squats can be good if done correctly. i usually see them done incorrectly.
video from an angle at the front. not straight on. like i did in that front squat vid.
thanks hoss. i actually have one to put up from this morning’s session.
I noticed I was the coming forward after a few reps as well.
Interestingly, I’m not as deep in the back squat I as I thought I was.
MM- so, if I’m reading correctly, pushing elbows forward and pushing out through the knees should help alleviate this a little? Is this where boxsquats come in as well?
Next week, I’ll try to vid from the front.
Meat, you’re vids are golden. Thanks!
most of the time people think they are deeper than they are. a good way of getting depth is to get into the rack and have someone watch you from the side. set the pins so that you tap them when you hit depth.
yeah… elbows and knees will keep the weight over your hips. box squats can be good if done correctly. i usually see them done incorrectly.
video from an angle at the front. not straight on. like i did in that front squat vid.
thanks hoss. i actually have one to put up from this morning’s session.
[/quote]
I’ve just been reading through here and was trying to understand what you’re saying about the elbows. Do you mean that if you pull them back, it pushes the weight forward or am I misunderstanding? Should they be pointing more downwards? I’ve always pushed mine up hard from the start to keep the bar in position. However, I’ve also been slow to get my hips through. Could that be alleviated by changing the position of my elbows?
Sorry to hijack SteelyD. I had to laugh a bit watching the guy behind you. In fact I watched to videos a few times to see what MM was referring to but I kept getting distracted by smith machine 1/4 squatter.
[quote]sfp wrote:
Steely, form aside (which I really can’t comment on), you looked strong.
Meat, once again, priceless commentary.
Thanks, all.
Oh, and Ouroboro: that guy in the background you were snickering at? That was me, thank you very much.[/quote]
Hey, if you think for one minute I’ll feel bad about laughing, you have the wrong lady. In fact, if I were there, I’d have been tempted to kick the back of your knees to help you get something approaching decent depth. I’m very giving like that
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
I’ve just been reading through here and was trying to understand what you’re saying about the elbows. Do you mean that if you pull them back, it pushes the weight forward or am I misunderstanding? Should they be pointing more downwards? I’ve always pushed mine up hard from the start to keep the bar in position. However, I’ve also been slow to get my hips through. Could that be alleviated by changing the position of my elbows?
Sorry to hijack SteelyD. I had to laugh a bit watching the guy behind you. In fact I watched to videos a few times to see what MM was referring to but I kept getting distracted by smith machine 1/4 squatter.
[/quote]
I’ve always understood the elbow thing as if you try to push your elbows forward it kind of forces your back to tighten up and keeps tension. In my case, thinking about it doesn’t always translate into doing it…
Sometimes on the way up, I catch myself actually trying to push the weight off my back, like a behind the back shoulder press-- just driving my arms up with the squat. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, just kinda happens.
Senior Carne?
re: “That Kid”. He’s a snapshot of how lots of folks train at that particular gym. Seems to have a bit o’ the Jock-itch, eh?
See all the people in those vids? They’re “the regulars”. How uninspiring. That’s why I go to 2 other gyms on certain days, one is 40 minutes away.
In my deadlift vids, the big kid behind me is the closest thing I have to a training partner and has a raw bench approaching 400.
I’ve just been reading through here and was trying to understand what you’re saying about the elbows. Do you mean that if you pull them back, it pushes the weight forward or am I misunderstanding? Should they be pointing more downwards? I’ve always pushed mine up hard from the start to keep the bar in position. However, I’ve also been slow to get my hips through. Could that be alleviated by changing the position of my elbows?
Sorry to hijack SteelyD. I had to laugh a bit watching the guy behind you. In fact I watched to videos a few times to see what MM was referring to but I kept getting distracted by smith machine 1/4 squatter.
[/quote]
most people allow their elbows to drift back as the set goes on. when this happens the bar will naturally start to bend you over and get in front of your hips. i call this the “chicken wing”.
what you want to do is get that bar set low on the traps, take a grip so that your forearms are roughly perpendicular to the bar and get those elbows directly under the bar. as you decend the elbows should be under the bar. then when you drive out of the hole, you force your elbows FORWARD. this will make sure your body stays in a tight arch, the weight will stay over your hips and your chest will remain high.
as for the hips not coming through, that is just practice getting the timing down. i would suggest squatting off a high box and just work on pushing the hips through right off the box.
when i’m training someone to squat i tell them to lead with the head, then the chest, then the hips.
if you have a good vid of you squatting with a close to max attempt, i could give it a looksee:)
I’ve just been reading through here and was trying to understand what you’re saying about the elbows. Do you mean that if you pull them back, it pushes the weight forward or am I misunderstanding? Should they be pointing more downwards? I’ve always pushed mine up hard from the start to keep the bar in position. However, I’ve also been slow to get my hips through. Could that be alleviated by changing the position of my elbows?
Sorry to hijack SteelyD. I had to laugh a bit watching the guy behind you. In fact I watched to videos a few times to see what MM was referring to but I kept getting distracted by smith machine 1/4 squatter.
most people allow their elbows to drift back as the set goes on. when this happens the bar will naturally start to bend you over and get in front of your hips. i call this the “chicken wing”.
what you want to do is get that bar set low on the traps, take a grip so that your forearms are roughly perpendicular to the bar and get those elbows directly under the bar. as you decend the elbows should be under the bar. then when you drive out of the hole, you force your elbows FORWARD. this will make sure your body stays in a tight arch, the weight will stay over your hips and your chest will remain high.
as for the hips not coming through, that is just practice getting the timing down. i would suggest squatting off a high box and just work on pushing the hips through right off the box.
when i’m training someone to squat i tell them to lead with the head, then the chest, then the hips.
if you have a good vid of you squatting with a close to max attempt, i could give it a looksee:)
[/quote]
The only thing I have at the moment are meet lifts from odd angles. I’m doing some raw testing tonight so maybe I can talk Court into taping me. I’d really appreciate your looking at it.
There is a video on my profile of a lift at a meet in Ottawa. I’ve always pushed my elbows back to hold the bar securely on my delts.
Cable straight leg extensions (kickback?): 3x10
Cable leg adduction: 3x10
Foam Roll, hip mobility
The deads felt better, but the weight was lighter, too. Tried to keep head up, back locked and toes out per last weeks comments. Had a wider stance, too-- toes just inside plate. That felt comfortable so I’ll run with that for now.
RDL’s: Not even sure I ever do these correctly. I could probably work on depth. The one thing that I keep saying in my head is something I think I heard from Dan John: “Get your chin as far away from your ass as you can”.
Comments are encouraged.
I could probably go heavier, too, but wanted to work on form with those. Felt them pretty good in ass and hammies.
