Should We Drop Minimum Wage?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
It doesn’t need to be encouraged. It’s just the way it is. We don’t have a minimum wage because of politicians in spite of the people’s wishes. We have a minimum wage because the people want politicians who also want a minimum wage.

Correction we have a minimum wage because of the “Fair Labor Standards Act”.

Not sure what this is supposed to be a correction for.

You stated we have a minimum wage in spite of the peoples wishes, I was merely pointing out that was not the case.[/quote]

Maybe it’s not so clear, but that’s not what I’m saying. The minimum wage doesn’t exist because some politicians acted despite the people’s opposition. The people supported the politicians who were supporting the minimum wage (among other standards).

Orion seemed to be saying that politicians encourage the people to support it, when I think it’s more accurate to say the people encouraged the politicians to support it, who’d then capture the support of the people.

182

[quote]Sloth wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
It doesn’t need to be encouraged. It’s just the way it is. We don’t have a minimum wage because of politicians in spite of the people’s wishes. We have a minimum wage because the people want politicians who also want a minimum wage.

Correction we have a minimum wage because of the “Fair Labor Standards Act”.

Not sure what this is supposed to be a correction for.

You stated we have a minimum wage in spite of the peoples wishes, I was merely pointing out that was not the case.

Maybe it’s not so clear, but that’s what I’m saying. The minimum wage doesn’t exist because some politicians acted despite the people’s opposition. The people supported the politicians who were supporting the minimum wage (among other standards).

Orion seemed to be saying that politicians encourage the people to support it, when I think it’s more accurate to say the people encouraged the politicians to support it, to capture the support of the people.
[/quote]

Gotcha were on the same page.

183

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think private companies owned by one or two people would always have the companyâ??s best interest at heart, I could not make the same statement about public corporations.
[/quote]

Pittbulll, I disagree with your take on CEOs. Lets take a look at Apple’s history from Wiki for instance:

“In 1996, Michael Spindler was replaced by Gil Amelio as CEO. Gil Amelio made many changes at Apple, including massive layoffs.[47] After multiple failed attempts to improve Mac OS, first with the Taligent project, then later with Copland and Gershwin, Amelio chose to purchase NeXT and its NeXTSTEP operating system, bringing Steve Jobs back to Apple as an advisor.[48] On July 9, 1997, Gil Amelio was ousted by the board of directors after overseeing a three-year record-low stock price and crippling financial losses. Jobs became the interim CEO and began restructuring the company’s product line.”

and

“Apple’s success during this period was evident in its stock price. Between early 2003 and 2006, the price of Apple’s stock increased more than tenfold, from around $6 per share (split-adjusted) to over $80. In January 2006, Apple’s market cap surpassed that of Dell.[73] Nine years prior, Dell’s CEO Michael Dell said that if he ran Apple he would “shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.”[74]”

Also I have worked in a Fortune 50 company and have seen first hand how the “20 vice presidents” as you put it can make or break a company. Many work long hours, have extensive schooling, and are under huge amounts of stress.

184

I wonder how someone making 3.00 an hour could survive. Are some of you not sober?

Minimum wage should be $1. Who cares if they gotta live under a bridge, they can take a bath in the restaurant’s sinks and wear the company uniform. Steal booze on the job and get drunk by the end of shift, eating out of the dumpster, getting raped for money, on a blow habbit to help her feel better about her dollar an hour job, getting cummed on all day to support her blow habbit and help pay the bills.

185

[quote]Producer wrote:
I wonder how someone making 3.00 an hour could survive. Are some of you not sober?

Minimum wage should be $1. Who cares if they gotta live under a bridge, they can take a bath in the restaurant’s sinks and wear the company uniform. Steal booze on the job and get drunk by the end of shift, eating out of the dumpster, getting raped for money, on a blow habbit to help her feel better about her dollar an hour job, getting cummed on all day to support her blow habbit and help pay the bills.[/quote]

That was probably one of the stupidest things I have read, if this was an actual forum I would ask security to remove you and throw you into the insane asylum to be checked out for such irrationality and logic fallacy.

No one can survive on minimum wage, that is why it is ridiculous to have it, it just makes it so that those who are entering the job market cannot get a job that could benefit from the experience more than the pay, such as teenagers (if they have job experience it would be safe to say they could get a job paying more than minimum livable wages when it comes time when they have to support themselves). If someone were to be on minimum wage, they should not be “getting by” on that income alone, they would need multiple jobs, etc.

Economically speaking when having to pay for the menial jobs at such a high price it makes it so that higher skilled jobs do not get paid higher wages, not as many menial positions are available, or higher skilled workers have to take some of the slack from the lack of menial jobs being taken on by unskilled workers.

186

[quote]Producer wrote:
I wonder how someone making 3.00 an hour could survive. Are some of you not sober?

Minimum wage should be $1. Who cares if they gotta live under a bridge, they can take a bath in the restaurant’s sinks and wear the company uniform. Steal booze on the job and get drunk by the end of shift, eating out of the dumpster, getting raped for money, on a blow habbit to help her feel better about her dollar an hour job, getting cummed on all day to support her blow habbit and help pay the bills.[/quote]

So?

What follows?

You seem to assume that therefore we could mandate a minimum wage.

That is like arguing that a parliament could outlaw floods because people cannot breathe under water.

It really makes no sense and is a rather primitive appeal to emotions.

187

[quote]orion wrote:

That is like arguing that a parliament could outlaw floods because people cannot breathe under water.

[/quote]

Awesome. Best analogy for the “fair wage” I’ve heard in awhile.

188

[quote]MikeyKBiatch wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I think private companies owned by one or two people would always have the company�¢??s best interest at heart, I could not make the same statement about public corporations.

Pittbulll, I disagree with your take on CEOs. Lets take a look at Apple’s history from Wiki for instance:

“In 1996, Michael Spindler was replaced by Gil Amelio as CEO. Gil Amelio made many changes at Apple, including massive layoffs.[47] After multiple failed attempts to improve Mac OS, first with the Taligent project, then later with Copland and Gershwin, Amelio chose to purchase NeXT and its NeXTSTEP operating system, bringing Steve Jobs back to Apple as an advisor.[48] On July 9, 1997, Gil Amelio was ousted by the board of directors after overseeing a three-year record-low stock price and crippling financial losses. Jobs became the interim CEO and began restructuring the company’s product line.”

and

“Apple’s success during this period was evident in its stock price. Between early 2003 and 2006, the price of Apple’s stock increased more than tenfold, from around $6 per share (split-adjusted) to over $80. In January 2006, Apple’s market cap surpassed that of Dell.[73] Nine years prior, Dell’s CEO Michael Dell said that if he ran Apple he would “shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.”[74]”

Also I have worked in a Fortune 50 company and have seen first hand how the “20 vice presidents” as you put it can make or break a company. Many work long hours, have extensive schooling, and are under huge amounts of stress. [/quote]

I do not disagree that a bad CEO can devaluate the stock price but most of the time the value of the is dependent on the market rather than the management

189

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Producer wrote:
I wonder how someone making 3.00 an hour could survive. Are some of you not sober?

Minimum wage should be $1. Who cares if they gotta live under a bridge, they can take a bath in the restaurant’s sinks and wear the company uniform. Steal booze on the job and get drunk by the end of shift, eating out of the dumpster, getting raped for money, on a blow habbit to help her feel better about her dollar an hour job, getting cummed on all day to support her blow habbit and help pay the bills.

That was probably one of the stupidest things I have read, if this was an actual forum I would ask security to remove you and throw you into the insane asylum to be checked out for such irrationality and logic fallacy.

No one can survive on minimum wage, that is why it is ridiculous to have it, it just makes it so that those who are entering the job market cannot get a job that could benefit from the experience more than the pay, such as teenagers (if they have job experience it would be safe to say they could get a job paying more than minimum livable wages when it comes time when they have to support themselves). If someone were to be on minimum wage, they should not be “getting by” on that income alone, they would need multiple jobs, etc.

Economically speaking when having to pay for the menial jobs at such a high price it makes it so that higher skilled jobs do not get paid higher wages, not as many menial positions are available, or higher skilled workers have to take some of the slack from the lack of menial jobs being taken on by unskilled workers.[/quote]

I do not think it is the STUPIDIST thing I have heard here :slight_smile:

I agree no one can live on minimum wage. That is why we need a livable wage

I am not sure if I understand the rest of your post but I think wages would trickle up :slight_smile:

191

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I agree no one can live on minimum wage. That is why we need a livable wage

I am not sure if I understand the rest of your post but I think wages would trickle up :slight_smile:
[/quote]

You’re just not getting it. A livable wage is an impossibility, because the second you set that wage, prices and unemployment will rise, and you will have made society worse off overall without making a real increase in the quality of life of those who are now receiving your “livable wage”.

192

[quote]pushharder wrote:
pittbulll wrote:

…I agree no one can live on minimum wage. That is why we need a livable wage…

What is a “livable wage” and how much does it amount to?
[/quote]

There are plenty of people that are alive and continue to live on exactly zero income. Therefore the liveable wage is zero.

193

[quote]pushharder wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Producer wrote:
I wonder how someone making 3.00 an hour could survive. Are some of you not sober?

Minimum wage should be $1. Who cares if they gotta live under a bridge, they can take a bath in the restaurant’s sinks and wear the company uniform. Steal booze on the job and get drunk by the end of shift, eating out of the dumpster, getting raped for money, on a blow habbit to help her feel better about her dollar an hour job, getting cummed on all day to support her blow habbit and help pay the bills.

That was probably one of the stupidest things I have read, if this was an actual forum I would ask security to remove you and throw you into the insane asylum to be checked out for such irrationality and logic fallacy.

No one can survive on minimum wage, that is why it is ridiculous to have it, it just makes it so that those who are entering the job market cannot get a job that could benefit from the experience more than the pay, such as teenagers (if they have job experience it would be safe to say they could get a job paying more than minimum livable wages when it comes time when they have to support themselves). If someone were to be on minimum wage, they should not be “getting by” on that income alone, they would need multiple jobs, etc.

Economically speaking when having to pay for the menial jobs at such a high price it makes it so that higher skilled jobs do not get paid higher wages, not as many menial positions are available, or higher skilled workers have to take some of the slack from the lack of menial jobs being taken on by unskilled workers.

…I agree no one can live on minimum wage. That is why we need a livable wage…

What is a “livable wage” and how much does it amount to?
[/quote]

A livable wage would be the sum of everything it costs to live a standardized life. I know it varies from Cleveland to N.Y.C.

194

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I agree no one can live on minimum wage. That is why we need a livable wage

I am not sure if I understand the rest of your post but I think wages would trickle up :slight_smile:

You’re just not getting it. A livable wage is an impossibility, because the second you set that wage, prices and unemployment will rise, and you will have made society worse off overall without making a real increase in the quality of life of those who are now receiving your “livable wage”.[/quote]

I agree prices will rise, but I donâ??t agree unemployment will raise much. What you are failing to realize that when the CEO of the company gets a big raise then the prices go up also.

I think the people now making a livable wage would get a trickle up effect :slight_smile:

Maybe if we had a decade or two where the working class got the raises then we could cease this discussion on a livable wage

195

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I agree no one can live on minimum wage. That is why we need a livable wage

I am not sure if I understand the rest of your post but I think wages would trickle up :slight_smile:

You’re just not getting it. A livable wage is an impossibility, because the second you set that wage, prices and unemployment will rise, and you will have made society worse off overall without making a real increase in the quality of life of those who are now receiving your “livable wage”.

I agree prices will rise, but I donâ??t agree unemployment will raise much. What you are failing to realize that when the CEO of the company gets a big raise then the prices go up also.

I think the people now making a livable wage would get a trickle up effect :slight_smile:

Maybe if we had a decade or two where the working class got the raises then we could cease this discussion on a livable wage

[/quote]

No we wouldn’t because the working class is already better off than ever before in history which is why they even have the time and energy to demand a minimum wage because of half baked economic theories.

197

[quote]pushharder wrote:
pittbulll wrote:

A livable wage would be the sum of everything it costs to live a standardized life. I know it varies from Cleveland to N.Y.C.

OK, so tell what YOU think a busboy at Denny’s in Tucson should be making. That’s right, I want you to tell us what the manager of the Denny’s on E. Speedway Blvd. in Tucson, Arizona should be required by law to pay high school dropout Horace W. Jones for bussing tables. Doesn’t have to be an exact amount but give me a range in U.S. dollars.

[/quote]
Pittbull, know that the future of this man’s business is in your hands to decide…if you guess wrong he and his business, customers, and employees will suffer.

Not that you care about this evil capitalist who is exploiting a bus-boy…

I guess we should just get used to making our own pancakes from now on???

198

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I agree prices will rise, but I donâ??t agree unemployment will raise much. What you are failing to realize that when the CEO of the company gets a big raise then the prices go up also. [/quote]

…the CEO’s pay is usually proportional to how much he makes for a company. So basically, you’re wrong.

How so? They haven’t gained any purchasing power due to price increases. So how exactly would there be a trickle up?

What? Why would the working class get a raise?

199

[quote]orion wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I agree no one can live on minimum wage. That is why we need a livable wage

I am not sure if I understand the rest of your post but I think wages would trickle up :slight_smile:

You’re just not getting it. A livable wage is an impossibility, because the second you set that wage, prices and unemployment will rise, and you will have made society worse off overall without making a real increase in the quality of life of those who are now receiving your “livable wage”.

I agree prices will rise, but I don�¢??t agree unemployment will raise much. What you are failing to realize that when the CEO of the company gets a big raise then the prices go up also.

I think the people now making a livable wage would get a trickle up effect :slight_smile:

Maybe if we had a decade or two where the working class got the raises then we could cease this discussion on a livable wage

No we wouldn’t because the working class is already better off than ever before in history which is why they even have the time and energy to demand a minimum wage because of half baked economic theories.

[/quote]

Orion you need to do a little research on why we have a minimum wage here…

200

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Producer wrote:
I wonder how someone making 3.00 an hour could survive. Are some of you not sober?

Minimum wage should be $1. Who cares if they gotta live under a bridge, they can take a bath in the restaurant’s sinks and wear the company uniform. Steal booze on the job and get drunk by the end of shift, eating out of the dumpster, getting raped for money, on a blow habbit to help her feel better about her dollar an hour job, getting cummed on all day to support her blow habbit and help pay the bills.

That was probably one of the stupidest things I have read, if this was an actual forum I would ask security to remove you and throw you into the insane asylum to be checked out for such irrationality and logic fallacy.

No one can survive on minimum wage, that is why it is ridiculous to have it, it just makes it so that those who are entering the job market cannot get a job that could benefit from the experience more than the pay, such as teenagers (if they have job experience it would be safe to say they could get a job paying more than minimum livable wages when it comes time when they have to support themselves). If someone were to be on minimum wage, they should not be “getting by” on that income alone, they would need multiple jobs, etc.

Economically speaking when having to pay for the menial jobs at such a high price it makes it so that higher skilled jobs do not get paid higher wages, not as many menial positions are available, or higher skilled workers have to take some of the slack from the lack of menial jobs being taken on by unskilled workers.

I do not think it is the STUPIDIST thing I have heard here :slight_smile:

I agree no one can live on minimum wage. That is why we need a livable wage

I am not sure if I understand the rest of your post but I think wages would trickle up :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Well let’s establish a livable wage, I am one of the most frugal people I know and I still live very comfortably (weigh around 260-270 lbs, fit to do the things I want, I read books, watch movies, have plenty of friends, and I go to church and tithe.

Personally if it wasn’t for my drinking habit, my trucks, my women, and hunting. I could live off of, about a dollar a day. And as it is now, I live below the $5 a day that some World Organisation says means I’m in poverty.

So, there we go, dollar a day, a hard working person plus 10 hour days. 10 cents an hour, there is your livable wage. Now, if you want to go off my friend who is a hermit, you might know him John Michael Talbot, the man has no money, does not spend any money, does not make any money unless it goes to the Church. Yet he lives a very full life with no wants.