[quote]smh23 wrote:
You can’t pin the recession on a particular president. Overreaching low-to-middle income Americans deserve blame. Wall Street deserves a generous helping of blame. Bush deserves blame. Clinton deserves blame. Reagan, particularly his ideological legacy, deserves blame (I know, I know, I shouldn’t slander the Almighty so openly). Obama deserves blame. Capitalism itself–its very nature–deserves blame. If you argue that any one man or ideology or economic policy can be said to have caused this disaster, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.[/quote]
I don’t know what the frig Reagan’s ‘ideological legacy’ has to do with the national debt. Some of the rest of your statement is true however. Bush did accelerate spending considerably but nothing compared to Obummer.
I mentioned post-WWII debt and US capacity to pay. After WWII the entire world was buying US made goods. Now-a-days the demand is met by other countries who can make things cheaper. This is of course a consequence of the laws of free market competition. Western countries are also held back by labour conditions/higher standards of living etc It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
You can’t pin the recession on a particular president. Overreaching low-to-middle income Americans deserve blame. Wall Street deserves a generous helping of blame. Bush deserves blame. Clinton deserves blame. Reagan, particularly his ideological legacy, deserves blame (I know, I know, I shouldn’t slander the Almighty so openly). Obama deserves blame. Capitalism itself–its very nature–deserves blame. If you argue that any one man or ideology or economic policy can be said to have caused this disaster, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.[/quote]
You don’t know what you are talking about. The actions of all these agents can be traced back to the influence of artificially low interest rates set by the FED. That is what caused the boom and the subsequent bust. Has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with big government.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.[/quote]
Of course it is. Don’t be a fool. The real reason why the US is seeing jobs flee overseas is because your monetary policy is fucking up your capital structure. If you actually had incentives to save money and subsequently invest them your workers could still have such a high marginal productivity that you wouldn’t have to export your factory jobs.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.[/quote]
Of course it is. Don’t be a fool. The real reason why the US is seeing jobs flee overseas is because your monetary policy is fucking up your capital structure. If you actually had incentives to save money and subsequently invest them your workers could still have such a high marginal productivity that you wouldn’t have to export your factory jobs.[/quote]
Have a look at what a Chinese factory worker gets paid and their labour conditions then explain to me how US factory workers could produce the same goods for the same cost.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.[/quote]
Of course it is. Don’t be a fool. The real reason why the US is seeing jobs flee overseas is because your monetary policy is fucking up your capital structure. If you actually had incentives to save money and subsequently invest them your workers could still have such a high marginal productivity that you wouldn’t have to export your factory jobs.[/quote]
Have a look at what a Chinese factory worker gets paid and their labour conditions then explain to me how US factory workers could produce the same goods for the same cost.[/quote]
I don’t know what the frig Reagan’s ‘ideological legacy’ has to do with the national debt. Some of the rest of your statement is true however. Bush did accelerate spending considerably but nothing compared to Obummer.
[/quote]
I didn’t say a thing about national debt, I said: the recession. Regulation of the derivatives market couldn’t have hurt.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.[/quote]
Of course it is. Don’t be a fool. The real reason why the US is seeing jobs flee overseas is because your monetary policy is fucking up your capital structure. If you actually had incentives to save money and subsequently invest them your workers could still have such a high marginal productivity that you wouldn’t have to export your factory jobs.[/quote]
Have a look at what a Chinese factory worker gets paid and their labour conditions then explain to me how US factory workers could produce the same goods for the same cost.[/quote]
Take a look at 10 Chinese ditch diggers with shovels vs. one American worker sitting in a large excavator. Who do you think is more productive? The American of course. So you can pay him 10x the wage of the Chinese worker and still come out ahead(discounting the investment in the excavator for the moment, it will pay for itself long term of course). This is just an example but similar tools could be applied for almost any industry. The problem isn’t cheap labour. It’s lack of capital.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.[/quote]
Of course it is. Don’t be a fool. The real reason why the US is seeing jobs flee overseas is because your monetary policy is fucking up your capital structure. If you actually had incentives to save money and subsequently invest them your workers could still have such a high marginal productivity that you wouldn’t have to export your factory jobs.[/quote]
Have a look at what a Chinese factory worker gets paid and their labour conditions then explain to me how US factory workers could produce the same goods for the same cost.[/quote]
Take a look at 10 Chinese ditch diggers with shovels vs. one American worker sitting in a large excavator. Who do you think is more productive? The American of course. So you can pay him 10x the wage of the Chinese worker and still come out ahead(discounting the investment in the excavator for the moment, it will pay for itself long term of course). This is just an example but similar tools could be applied for almost any industry. The problem isn’t cheap labour. It’s lack of capital.
[/quote]
Worst analogy of all time.
We’re not taking about modern America competeing with China in the 15th century.
That’s a perfectly valid analogy to demonstrate a point. Access to more capital goods=>Higher productivy=>no reason to hire 10 chinese babies to make shoes instead of one american.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.[/quote]
Of course it is. Don’t be a fool. The real reason why the US is seeing jobs flee overseas is because your monetary policy is fucking up your capital structure. If you actually had incentives to save money and subsequently invest them your workers could still have such a high marginal productivity that you wouldn’t have to export your factory jobs.[/quote]
Have a look at what a Chinese factory worker gets paid and their labour conditions then explain to me how US factory workers could produce the same goods for the same cost.[/quote]
Take a look at 10 Chinese ditch diggers with shovels vs. one American worker sitting in a large excavator. Who do you think is more productive? The American of course. So you can pay him 10x the wage of the Chinese worker and still come out ahead(discounting the investment in the excavator for the moment, it will pay for itself long term of course). This is just an example but similar tools could be applied for almost any industry. The problem isn’t cheap labour. It’s lack of capital.
[/quote]
Worst analogy of all time.
We’re not taking about modern America competeing with China in the 15th century.[/quote]
True, some of their rural areas probably have even less capital than 15 century Europe.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.[/quote]
Of course it is. Don’t be a fool. The real reason why the US is seeing jobs flee overseas is because your monetary policy is fucking up your capital structure. If you actually had incentives to save money and subsequently invest them your workers could still have such a high marginal productivity that you wouldn’t have to export your factory jobs.[/quote]
Have a look at what a Chinese factory worker gets paid and their labour conditions then explain to me how US factory workers could produce the same goods for the same cost.[/quote]
Take a look at 10 Chinese ditch diggers with shovels vs. one American worker sitting in a large excavator. Who do you think is more productive? The American of course. So you can pay him 10x the wage of the Chinese worker and still come out ahead(discounting the investment in the excavator for the moment, it will pay for itself long term of course). This is just an example but similar tools could be applied for almost any industry. The problem isn’t cheap labour. It’s lack of capital.
[/quote]
Worst analogy of all time.
We’re not taking about modern America competeing with China in the 15th century.[/quote]
True, some of their rural areas probably have even less capital than 15 century Europe. [/quote]
I don’t get it. You’re not competing with some farmer growing rice. You’re competing with China. If China was broken up into a squabbling salmagundi of lesser countries then you wouldn’t have a problem. As it is, you do.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
It’s simply not possible for the US to compete in the free market with a country like China.[/quote]
Of course it is. Don’t be a fool. The real reason why the US is seeing jobs flee overseas is because your monetary policy is fucking up your capital structure. If you actually had incentives to save money and subsequently invest them your workers could still have such a high marginal productivity that you wouldn’t have to export your factory jobs.[/quote]
Have a look at what a Chinese factory worker gets paid and their labour conditions then explain to me how US factory workers could produce the same goods for the same cost.[/quote]
Take a look at 10 Chinese ditch diggers with shovels vs. one American worker sitting in a large excavator. Who do you think is more productive? The American of course. So you can pay him 10x the wage of the Chinese worker and still come out ahead(discounting the investment in the excavator for the moment, it will pay for itself long term of course). This is just an example but similar tools could be applied for almost any industry. The problem isn’t cheap labour. It’s lack of capital.
[/quote]
Worst analogy of all time.
We’re not taking about modern America competeing with China in the 15th century.[/quote]
True, some of their rural areas probably have even less capital than 15 century Europe. [/quote]
I don’t get it. You’re not competing with some farmer growing rice. You’re competing with China. If China was broken up into a squabbling salmagundi of lesser countries then you wouldn’t have a problem. As it is, you do.
[/quote]
No you dont.
Capital accumulation takes time and they have had not have nearly enough time to accumulate the machinery or to train people in their use.
If you can build items at lower cost than your competitor you can sell it, no matter what you pay your workers and machines help you do that.
No the US obviously desperately tries to drive manufacturing out of the country, it is kind of strange to blame the Chinese when that is succeeding.
[quote]xspoonman wrote:
doesnt anyone remember bush raising the debt ceiling 8 times and lower taxes on the rich then we promptly went into a recession? or are we just going to blame everything on the black guy?[/quote]
Not the way it happened. I remember tax cuts and the government pulling in more money than ever. I remember a housing bubble and credit crisis leading to a recession.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
You can’t pin the recession on a particular president. Overreaching low-to-middle income Americans deserve blame. Wall Street deserves a generous helping of blame. Bush deserves blame. Clinton deserves blame. Reagan, particularly his ideological legacy, deserves blame (I know, I know, I shouldn’t slander the Almighty so openly). Obama deserves blame. Capitalism itself–its very nature–deserves blame. If you argue that any one man or ideology or economic policy can be said to have caused this disaster, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.[/quote]
You don’t know what you are talking about. The actions of all these agents can be traced back to the influence of artificially low interest rates set by the FED. That is what caused the boom and the subsequent bust. Has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with big government.[/quote]