I have a hard time giving any decision the designation of “mistake” if nobody was able to come up with another option even gifted the joy of hindsight.
Get what you’re saying though.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t staying in Iraq reliant on them voting to allow it? So our options were to ignore the government we JUST instilled and propped up or accept they were puppets and openly ignore them?
Agreed
Well, imo, the better option was to stay until the Iraq government could fill the power vacuum, but a lot of people didn’t/don’t want that, which is understandable.
In a theoretical world, I’d ask when that was ever going to be, how much it would cost (in both USD and American lives), and how that would change anything?
In a literal one I’d still ask weren’t we reliant on the Iraqi people voting to allow us to stay?
Was staying an actual option without invalidating the entire govt we just forced into place?
Great question I don’t have the answers to. The Middle East is a giant cluster fuck of carnage for like 2,000 years. At some point, we needed to remove ourselves from their wars, but we don’t live in a world were shitbags in ISIS can’t reach out and touch us in really shitty ways. It’s a catch 22, we stay and spend lives & money. We leave and we still lose lives and money in terror attacks.
I don’t remember.
Agreed. No real great answers
To my knowledge staying wasn’t an option without them voting for it. At least not without openly invalidating the entire govt we just forced into place
No it was based on an original timeline set out by Operation Iraqi Freedom. The pull out date, set in 2005 was more or less an educated guess based on several factors. A pull out date the sitting president can easily extend, Obama chose not to even though Iraq was not ready to go it alone…Clearly.
I guessed, right here on this forum we’d be back in 5 years. My expectations were exceeded by 3.
Given the fact that the Iraqi army dropped their American provided weapons and ran like hell in the face of ISIS. I think leaving 30,000 troupes was the right guess. At least 10,000. ISIS would not have even tried it… “Weird guys with masks raping women and firing AK’s in the air. We need an air strike”
The ME is a giant cluster fuck. But having our finger in the dike has prevented more issues than it caused.
All understood. I’m asking if staying was actually a legal option
Forgive the quick googling, at work
No.
The asshole we left in place was a Shiite who hated the Sunni’s, not a great formula. But it had zero to do with voting.
The way we went about the war, dismantling the entire Iraqi infrastructure was a less than brilliant idea, since they already had an infrastructure It ensured a many year obligation, when we could have removed Saddam and the Baath party and left the infrastructure in place. That would have been a much faster solution. Nation building is no simple task. It’s harder than war.
So you’re saying we had no legal barrier to stay and it was based entirely on our wants/needs/plans?
Yes. The restrictions placed were our own and malleable.
So would you say our options were to leave or to ignore the govt we forced into place and openly ignore the structure we set up for them?
No, I am saying we leave when the job is done. We leave a safe, stable and secure country able to defend itself against foreign invaders and not run screaming into to the desert at first threat. Shortly after we left, we had to force out the Prime Minister. This would have been an easier job with a mobile .50 cal.
Eh we’ve clearly reached agree to disagree territory. I can’t even get you to agree that our options were 1 of 2 binary choices.
Option 1 - leave
Option 2 - stay (if necessary, reliant on ignoring laws we created that would require we get permission)
That’s fine. I wasn’t arguing. Just remembering the facts of the event as they unfolded.
A lot of people don’t want us in a lot of places until we leave, then they want us back, fast. I don’t think the average Iraqi knew why they were not getting killed in the streets and suffering from IED’s anymore. When they want us out, it usually means things are looking up. Which is good, but you have to secure it, which was in process but not complete.
Evidenced by the fact that things went to hell when we left, it was clear the job was not done.
And we had to come back, and we are still there…
That’s easy to say when it’s not your finger in the hole.
Good point.
So there’s a 3rd option I’m missing?
