Should America Elect a Polytheist?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

…The idea that other ‘gods’ may exist is not the problem, it’s who your worship…The fact that mormons think its possible for other ‘gods’ to exist, doesn’t make them polytheistic, they worship the God of Israel. Of course they missed the parts of the OT that expressedly stated that no other gods exist, and further the simple fact that it’s logically impossible for there to be more than one. But I digress, I really don’t care.[/quote]

Pat, you don’t know your Mormonism. Step out of the batter’s box, please.[/quote]

Actually I thought that was pretty accurate (minus the claims he made for the OT). What did you see?[/quote]

Actually you are right in that the OT doesn’t say that no other gods exist. It says the baals and the other carved images are not gods but statues built by men. I suppose I was paraphrasing a bit. [/quote]

Look up “Jewish Monolatry”

122

Isaiah 46:8-11 ESV

[quote]8 "Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, “My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,”
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.[/quote] All glory honor and praise be to His magnificent holy name who says He is God most sovereign all by Himself and cannot lie.

123

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Isaiah 46:8-11 ESV

[quote]8 "Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, “My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,”
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.[/quote] All glory honor and praise be to His magnificent holy name who says He is God most sovereign all by Himself and cannot lie.
[/quote]

“The Mosaic religion was initially a monolatrous religion; while the Hebrews are enjoined to worship no deity but Yahweh, there is no evidence that the earliest Mosaic religion denied the existence of other gods. In fact, the account of the migration contains numerous references by the historical characters to other gods, and the first law of the Decalogue is, after all, that no gods be put before Yahweh, not that no other gods exist. While controversial among many people, most scholars have concluded that the initial Mosaic religion for about two hundred years was a monolatrous religion. For there is ample evidence in the Hebrew account of the settlement of Palestine, that the Hebrews frequently changed religions, often several times in a single lifetime.”
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Monolatry.html

Also,

http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1276&context=lts_fac_pubs&sei-redir=1#search="evidence%20jewish%20monolatry"

Read, be educated.

124
125

Chris. Why, pray tell are posting a Portuguese Pater Noster in th1s thread. Are you goin all eccentric n goofy on me now?

126

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Chris. Why, pray tell are posting a Portuguese Pater Noster in th1s thread. Are you goin all eccentric n goofy on me now? [/quote]

Portuguese? I know my ecclesiastical Latin is shaky, but I’m pretty sure the Pope was singing the Latin Mass. :slight_smile:

And, because it is the Lord’s prayer.

P.S. And, because it is the Mormon’s favorite Mormon Pope, they baptized him like four times I hear.

127

[quote]byukid wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

…The idea that other ‘gods’ may exist is not the problem, it’s who your worship…The fact that mormons think its possible for other ‘gods’ to exist, doesn’t make them polytheistic, they worship the God of Israel. Of course they missed the parts of the OT that expressedly stated that no other gods exist, and further the simple fact that it’s logically impossible for there to be more than one. But I digress, I really don’t care.[/quote]

Pat, you don’t know your Mormonism. Step out of the batter’s box, please.[/quote]

Actually I thought that was pretty accurate (minus the claims he made for the OT). What did you see?[/quote]

Actually you are right in that the OT doesn’t say that no other gods exist. It says the baals and the other carved images are not gods but statues built by men. I suppose I was paraphrasing a bit. [/quote]

Look up “Jewish Monolatry”[/quote]

I thought I said that? It does seem later in the OT that they moved to the monotheistic theme, but early on, they believed Yahweh to be top dog.

128

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Chris. Why, pray tell are posting a Portuguese Pater Noster in th1s thread. Are you goin all eccentric n goofy on me now? [/quote]

Portuguese? I know my ecclesiastical Latin is shaky, but I’m pretty sure the Pope was singing the Latin Mass. :slight_smile:

And, because it is the Lord’s prayer.

P.S. And, because it is the Mormon’s favorite Mormon Pope, they baptized him like four times I hear.[/quote]Ok, I confess I didn’t watch the video, but I chased down the outfit that posted the video and the whole site is in Portuguese. Sorry, I should have watched it first. I would’ve recognized Latin though I don’t know it. At some point you and I will probably be baptized by proxy in some LDS temple somewhere as well =] I hope I get Kirtland, but I’m not sure if it’s anything but a museum anymore.

129

Religion is private, its place is in the home and church. I despise the fact that it even enters the equation, when it comes to politics and public life. We are a nation of many faiths, and of the unfaithful. How do you think non-Christians and atheists feel to hear “their” leaders preach views they don’t hold? Are we less American, or un-American for not being Christian? You see? It’s divisive, and that is why it does not belong in public life. Modern politicians use faith in the same cynical way that the founding fathers did. When you contrast the latters’ public statements with their private letters, it becomes very clear how they really felt about the church. But they were not above using faith as a mechanism of control over the masses, as it has always been.

131

[quote]reidnez wrote:
How do you think non-Christians and atheists feel to hear “their” leaders preach views they don’t hold? [/quote]

I don’t give a fuck how it makes you feel. You don’t like theist leaders elect atheist ones. You message gets spread well enough.

You don’t like discussing religion then don’t. Why are you here?

133

[quote]reidnez wrote:
Religion is private, its place is in the home and church.
[/quote]

Tell me that again after next Saturday when I’m helping set-up a prayer vigil outside a PP clinic. Say that again when I take Christmas Tide, Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, Holy days of obligation and Sundays off from work.

Shouldn’t have voted them in.

That a religious morality was needed? Though preferably not the Catholic Church, because the Church was a little to strict?

Where is your proof of “has always been”?

134

1280×720 128 KB

With Bachmann and Perry this is what you can expect:

135

Wow, lots of hostility on here. Is it really that intolerable to entertain a conflicting point of view? I actually do like discussing religion, with thoughtful people. I have some close friends who are deeply religious (but not dogmatic) and I very much enjoy learning from them.

I meant that religion ought to be private, not that it is. I’m fully aware that it’s public. I simply don’t understand why many of those of faith see fit to force their brand of belief into all facets of life. Why does religion have to be in school and carved into public buildings? Why does a candidate’s faith matter? If I as an atheist can vote for a professed Christian (since I don’t have much choice), why can’t a Christian vote for a professed Buddhist or Muslim or atheist? Freedom of religion means all religion, not just yours. And that also means the ability to be free from religion, should one choose.

Anyway, that’s about all I’ve got. I’ll leave you with some choice quotes I broadly referenced earlier, from the same founding fathers that the religious right has seen fit to lionize, and adopt for their cause. Christian Nation, indeed.

"If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, “that this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.”

“In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot … they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose.”

“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.”

-Thomas Jefferson

“Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.”

“In the affairs of the world, men are saved not by faith, but by the lack of it.”

-Benjamin Franklin

“God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world.”

“The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.”

-John Adams

136

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Tell me that again after next Saturday when I’m helping set-up a prayer vigil outside a PP clinic. Say that again when I take Christmas Tide, Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, Holy days of obligation and Sundays off from work.
[/quote]

Good boy! Thank you.

137

[quote]ephrem wrote:
With Bachmann and Perry this is what you can expect:

[/quote]

Weird, since it’s what we got with obama… Besides you don’t live here why do you give a shit. Holland and the rest of the EU has it’s own mega, major economic issues right now…You really need to take care of your own business before you worry about ares…
It’s not like you get a vote. But I do.

139

[quote]reidnez wrote:
Wow, lots of hostility on here. Is it really that intolerable to entertain a conflicting point of view? I actually do like discussing religion, with thoughtful people. I have some close friends who are deeply religious (but not dogmatic) and I very much enjoy learning from them.

I meant that religion ought to be private, not that it is. I’m fully aware that it’s public. I simply don’t understand why many of those of faith see fit to force their brand of belief into all facets of life. Why does religion have to be in school and carved into public buildings? Why does a candidate’s faith matter? If I as an atheist can vote for a professed Christian (since I don’t have much choice), why can’t a Christian vote for a professed Buddhist or Muslim or atheist? Freedom of religion means all religion, not just yours. And that also means the ability to be free from religion, should one choose.

Anyway, that’s about all I’ve got. I’ll leave you with some choice quotes I broadly referenced earlier, from the same founding fathers that the religious right has seen fit to lionize, and adopt for their cause. Christian Nation, indeed.

"If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, “that this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.”

“In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot … they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose.”

“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.”

-Thomas Jefferson

“Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.”

“In the affairs of the world, men are saved not by faith, but by the lack of it.”

-Benjamin Franklin

“God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world.”

“The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.”

-John Adams

[/quote]

Religion has never been private neither has atheism. Let’s not forget the largest mass slaughter of innocents by the hands of atheists against religious because of religion in the 20th century; the likes of which history has never seen before or since.
This whole notion that religion should be private is a farce. Everybody shares their views as you have been so gracious to share yours as well.

So long as church and state are separate, I am fine with it.
John Adams and Jefferson, though deists were also very much enamored with Christianity. They spent the majority of their final decade discussing almost exclusively that. Jefferson merely argued that divinity is unnecessary since the existence of God is self evident in his creation.