Should America Elect a Polytheist?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

I read this entire post dear Christopher and 2 things are painfully clear. One? You were never in any “Calvinistic” community. My church teaches everything you weren’t and none of your misrepresentations in our foundational training program (FTP) for new members. Thou scoffer at strawmen hast thineself posited many in the above.

Two? I am reminded why, for the first three years I was here I didn’t get into these conversations. These discussions just cannot be adequately accommodated on an Internet forum and probably except in person. You’re a smart guy, as are most here, and I do not doubt that in your case the intentions are honorable.

However after dozens, maybe hundreds, of long detailed posts neither you or Elder Forlife, or Cortes, or Jake, Sloth hasn’t really said, none of the atheists, forget about Pat, none of you guys except with a meager smattering here and there, EVER comeback at me with what I have actually said I believe the bible teaches. I read this post of yours and thought “we’ve come this far and gone practically nowhere”. Of course that will delight the unbelievers who will take it as evidence of how fruitless belief in a supernatural God really is. So be it.

BTW, I don’t actually know what your church teaches in detail about Mormonism, but would be interested to learn more. I will say that Rome is not lacking in personnel who are more than capable of at least rightly concluding what the LDS theology proper actually is. From the little you’ve said that does so far appear to the case as well.

102

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

However after dozens, maybe hundreds, of long detailed posts neither you or Elder Forlife, or Cortes, or Jake, Sloth hasn’t really said, none of the atheists, forget about Pat, none of you guys except with a meager smattering here and there, EVER comeback at me with what I have actually said I believe the bible teaches. I read this post of yours and thought “we’ve come this far and gone practically nowhere”. Of course that will delight the unbelievers who will take it as evidence of how fruitless belief in a supernatural God really is. So be it.
[/quote]

With all due respect, Tirib, and I actually mean with all due respect, no one else seems to have too much trouble understanding or conveying his beliefs around here. For some reason only Calvinism is impossible to convey without sitting down face to face.

Why do you think that is? You don’t seem to feel you have any problem grasping what any of us are saying to you about our faiths. Could it possibly be that the medium is not the issue?

103

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I read this entire post dear Christopher and 2 things are painfully clear. One? You were never in any “Calvinistic” community. My church teaches everything you weren’t and none of your misrepresentations in our foundational training program (FTP) for new members. Thou scoffer at strawmen hast thineself posited many in the above.

Two? I am reminded why, for the first three years I was here I didn’t get into these conversations. These discussions just cannot be adequately accommodated on an Internet forum and probably except in person. You’re a smart guy, as are most here, and I do not doubt that in your case the intentions are honorable.

However after dozens, maybe hundreds, of long detailed posts neither you or Elder Forlife, or Cortes, or Jake, Sloth hasn’t really said, none of the atheists, forget about Pat, none of you guys except with a meager smattering here and there, EVER comeback at me with what I have actually said I believe the bible teaches. I read this post of yours and thought “we’ve come this far and gone practically nowhere”. Of course that will delight the unbelievers who will take it as evidence of how fruitless belief in a supernatural God really is. So be it.

BTW, I don’t actually know what your church teaches in detail about Mormonism, but would be interested to learn more. I will say that Rome is not lacking in personnel who are more than capable of at least rightly concluding what the LDS theology proper actually is. From the little you’ve said that does so far appear to the case as well.[/quote]

Forget about pat? That hurt. It didn’t hurt when you called me a lying, dead hearted, satan worshiping swine, but this was just mean.
Of course forget pat because I have come with dozens upon dozens of scripture verses that disproves Calvinism in every facet. Even in your beloved Romans, which is actually one of my favorite Epistles. Between James and Peter, Calvin is in deep doo doo, theologically speaking.

Read James, read it twice. Do not disregard it, it is every bit as much the word of the Lord as Romans is…Besides, St. James knew the man Jesus, not just the deitific Jesus. As St. James says if any man speaks the to contrary the truth is not in him.

104

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I read this entire post dear Christopher and 2 things are painfully clear. One? You were never in any “Calvinistic” community. My church teaches everything you weren’t and none of your misrepresentations in our foundational training program (FTP) for new members. Thou scoffer at strawmen hast thineself posited many in the above.[/quote]

So, now you’re telling me where I went? You never lived in Detroit, because you don’t act like Eminem. I surely did…even had some “famous” preachers I sat in when they came into town. I say famous because there was a big hoopla about it, not because I knew who they were (though the names seemed familiar). I think one of them was someone you linked to, but I’ll see if I can’t find the information.

I think the problem with my trying to understand your Calvinism, is because I learned my Calvinism from a different person. There isn’t a person that tells our Pastors, hey you got that wrong, that’s not true, &c. So, we have two pastors (well I have a whole denomination in Phoenix) and they may both be “Calvinist” but since everyone is pretty much their own pope in these circles, it gets a little confusing. Though interestingly enough, two of the people that were teaching me had come back from Calvin Theological Seminary (that’s in MI, in case you were wondering) and the other four came from Westminster Seminary out in Cali.

105

Mormons are Monolatrists, assholes.

106

[quote]byukid wrote:
Mormons are Monolatrists, assholes. [/quote]

You sure that you are not Henotheists, poophead?

107

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:
Mormons are Monolatrists, assholes. [/quote]

You sure that you are not Henotheists, poophead?

[/quote]

Yes, I don’t believe you can worship any other God with equal validity. I’m okay if you do, though. I’m not going to freak out about it.

108

[quote]byukid wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:
Mormons are Monolatrists, assholes. [/quote]

You sure that you are not Henotheists, poophead?

[/quote]

Yes, I don’t believe you can worship any other God with equal validity. I’m okay if you do, though. I’m not going to freak out about it. [/quote]

Is your God top dog?

If so, you are definitely Monolatrists.

I think…

109

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:
Mormons are Monolatrists, assholes. [/quote]

You sure that you are not Henotheists, poophead?

[/quote]

Yes, I don’t believe you can worship any other God with equal validity. I’m okay if you do, though. I’m not going to freak out about it. [/quote]

Is your God top dog?

If so, you are definitely Monolatrists.

I think…[/quote]

Yes He is. As I understand with Henotheism you basically say that your God is most important to you and other peoples forms of worship are also equally valid for them. Or something.

110

If you all wouldn’t minding excusing my ignorance, why does it matter what the Catholic Church says or thinks about Mormonism?

And to BC that link with the smear against the CC made me laugh, but it is most certainly a low blow and Times should apologize.

111

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
If you all wouldn’t minding excusing my ignorance, why does it matter what the Catholic Church says or thinks about Mormonism?
[/quote]

It doesn’t matter what anybody says about it really. It’s their business, not mine. When they come over, I hand them a cold non-caffeinated beverage, listen to what they have to say, politely tell them where I stand on the issues and amicably part ways.

112

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
If you all wouldn’t minding excusing my ignorance, why does it matter what the Catholic Church says or thinks about Mormonism?
[/quote]

It doesn’t matter what anybody says about it really. It’s their business, not mine. When they come over, I hand them a cold non-caffeinated beverage, listen to what they have to say, politely tell them where I stand on the issues and amicably part ways.
[/quote]

Thanks Pat, that is what I figured but I wasn’t sure if the CC had a final say or anything.

113
114

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
If you all wouldn’t minding excusing my ignorance, why does it matter what the Catholic Church says or thinks about Mormonism?
[/quote]

It doesn’t matter what anybody says about it really. It’s their business, not mine. When they come over, I hand them a cold non-caffeinated beverage, listen to what they have to say, politely tell them where I stand on the issues and amicably part ways.
[/quote]

Thanks Pat, that is what I figured but I wasn’t sure if the CC had a final say or anything.
[/quote]

Of course we have information regarding all religions and sects through out the world. Most of it is academic. It’s there’s not a big give a shit factor there unless the are attacks, genocide, or something where harm is being done in the name of faith. It’s then that a judgement is rendered. It’s a foregone conclusion we thing we’re the rightest, but every religion and sect thinks that…We do have some advantages in history other don’t though.

The idea that other ‘gods’ may exist is not the problem, it’s who your worship…The fact that mormons think its possible for other ‘gods’ to exist, doesn’t make them polytheistic, they worship the God of Israel. Of course they missed the parts of the OT that expressedly stated that no other gods exist, and further the simple fact that it’s logically impossible for there to be more than one. But I digress, I really don’t care.

115

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[/quote]

Except it has little basis in scripture, it was brought about by a power, hungry murderous heretic, and has little basis in reality…Other than that it’s peachy.

Being hated doesn’t mean shit, we’re been hated since apostolic times as evidenced by the fact that all the apostles save for St. John were killed.

Most tiny occult’s are generally despised and it speaks little to their validity. Reformed Baptist is as valid as the Branch Dividians. Both aren’t well liked, both have little scriptural backing.

116

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
If you all wouldn’t minding excusing my ignorance, why does it matter what the Catholic Church says or thinks about Mormonism?

And to BC that link with the smear against the CC made me laugh, but it is most certainly a low blow and Times should apologize.[/quote]

Because, we’re the Catholic Church. We have/had a lot of influence. And, well we think we’re right about stuff when it comes to our teaching on Faith and Morals. But, we’re dealing with eternity – we feel we have an obligation to say something on the matter. Example, if your buddy is misusing his rifle as a impromptu hammer you should probably tell him he’s doing it wrong. Catholics hold that omission of correction is as bad as helping the person do something wrong. Though, we are told to do it one or two times and leave it alone because the person isn’t doing it wrong because they don’t know…they are doing it wrong because they want to do it that way and don’t care if there is a right way.

Further, we realise the Church itself is not the State, we were not given the power to force people to believe stuff. That is why we have the understanding of Freedom of Conscience; that though we believe we are right, to force someone to not hold something apart from us is wrong.

Yeah, it was a very strange comment to make. I expect that stuff in my local bar when we’re talking trash during the ball game, I don’t expect it on the front page of the paper.

I guess I just figured out the problem: people don’t recognize locker room talk anymore; there is no filter.

118

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

…The idea that other ‘gods’ may exist is not the problem, it’s who your worship…The fact that mormons think its possible for other ‘gods’ to exist, doesn’t make them polytheistic, they worship the God of Israel. Of course they missed the parts of the OT that expressedly stated that no other gods exist, and further the simple fact that it’s logically impossible for there to be more than one. But I digress, I really don’t care.[/quote]

Pat, you don’t know your Mormonism. Step out of the batter’s box, please.[/quote]

Actually I thought that was pretty accurate (minus the claims he made for the OT). What did you see?

119

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

…The idea that other ‘gods’ may exist is not the problem, it’s who your worship…The fact that mormons think its possible for other ‘gods’ to exist, doesn’t make them polytheistic, they worship the God of Israel. Of course they missed the parts of the OT that expressedly stated that no other gods exist, and further the simple fact that it’s logically impossible for there to be more than one. But I digress, I really don’t care.[/quote]

Pat, you don’t know your Mormonism. Step out of the batter’s box, please.[/quote]

Ok, maybe I don’t but that what they have said…

120

[quote]byukid wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

…The idea that other ‘gods’ may exist is not the problem, it’s who your worship…The fact that mormons think its possible for other ‘gods’ to exist, doesn’t make them polytheistic, they worship the God of Israel. Of course they missed the parts of the OT that expressedly stated that no other gods exist, and further the simple fact that it’s logically impossible for there to be more than one. But I digress, I really don’t care.[/quote]

Pat, you don’t know your Mormonism. Step out of the batter’s box, please.[/quote]

Actually I thought that was pretty accurate (minus the claims he made for the OT). What did you see?[/quote]

Actually you are right in that the OT doesn’t say that no other gods exist. It says the baals and the other carved images are not gods but statues built by men. I suppose I was paraphrasing a bit.