Meanwhile…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Smh, set aside your passionately crafted arguments for a sec and answer these questions for me:
Do you think you understand Southern culture and tradition like a Southerner does, and if so, what do you base that on?
Have you traveled and/or lived extensively in the South?
Do you know your Tupelo from your Tallahassee? Your Lake Okeechobee from your TVA reservoir? Your Vidalia from your magnolia?
Have you ever fished for catfish in a muddy Georgia stream? Ate chitlins? Cheesegrits? Drank RC Cola with a Moonpie?
Have you ever even laid eyes on the Suwanee? The site of North America’s first English colony? Traveled by Greyhound across Dixie? Sang Dixie?
Now whatever you decide to do in response don’t give me any “That’s irrelevant” stuff. Just answer the questions. [/quote]
I’ll compromise – because my answer, under normal circumstances, would go as you’ve guessed – and respond to the spirit of your questions. No, Southern culture is not my culture. However, it is my father’s culture, and I’ve traveled extensively in the Deep South, have lived in a (very) southern state for a while, and have spent a good amount of time all over, including during road trips (the best way to see America) into which I was forced as a child. Yes, I have eaten chitlins and cheese grits and, unfortunately, okra. Believe it or not, my eyes were upon the Suwanee not three months ago.
My historical family tree is on one side entrenched New Englanders and, on the other, Southern aristocracy (though this latter side fell on very hard times over the generations and forever stayed that way, with the sole exception of my father). We all know what Southern aristocracy means: I am descended from slave-owners whom I can identify by name. (Surprise!) Part of my willingness to make the point about AC’s ancestor – whom I was not actually accusing of anything at all – has to do with this fact of my ancestry. I would not think of insulting or even wondering whether he knows the motivations of his parents, his grandparents. (These kinds of things are off-limits, and, while I’m happy to exchange occasional and mutual unpleasantries with a willing partner, I never intend to cross the insult-gap into actually mean-spirited or inappropriate territory.) Anyway, I do know about my own ancestors, and I don’t care in the slightest. I have literally no obligation to them, and I certainly have no complicity in anything they did. I could not summon any guilt – or, even, discomfort – if I were to try. Relatedly, Ben Affleck is an utter dunce.
So I’m not some purebred Yankee who’s never been down past Battery Park. But I’m no Southerner, either, and I readily admit it. As a final note about the substance of this debate, while I have complete faith in my arguments (and have for years), this issue is not something I’m bent out of shape about. It is not something I consider to be a great problem in need of urgent and forceful action. I want people to come around to thinking about it the way I do, but I understand that they won’t, and nothing in my argument is an accusation of racism on any actual person’s part, certainly not any actual person hereabouts.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
(e.g. the Peace Museum).
[/quote]
Sounds like you’ve been there.
If you ever go back,let me know.
I’ll arrange for special treatment (and maybe lunch with a pretty lady).[/quote]
Sounds great, my friend. I am hoping to get back to Japan sooner rather than later – it’s one of those places where I have tended to be so busy and whatnot that I’ve never felt like I’ve gotten a good idea of the country. Although I have visited some rural areas that could have served as the setting for a clichéd book about some callous, oblivious Westerner finding comfort in the small things and, finally, inner peace (I mean this in a good way).
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
(e.g. the Peace Museum).
[/quote]
Sounds like you’ve been there.
If you ever go back,let me know.
I’ll arrange for special treatment (and maybe lunch with a pretty lady).[/quote]
Sounds great, my friend. I am hoping to get back to Japan sooner rather than later – it’s one of those places where I have tended to be so busy and whatnot that I’ve never felt like I’ve gotten a good idea of the country. Although I have visited some rural areas that could have served as the setting for a clichÃ?©d book about some callous, oblivious Westerner finding comfort in the small things and, finally, inner peace (I mean this in a good way).[/quote]
I hope you do make your way back over here in the near future. You will definitely have a place to stay when you get here. With an attached gym!
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
(e.g. the Peace Museum).
[/quote]
Sounds like you’ve been there.
If you ever go back,let me know.
I’ll arrange for special treatment (and maybe lunch with a pretty lady).[/quote]
Sounds great, my friend. I am hoping to get back to Japan sooner rather than later – it’s one of those places where I have tended to be so busy and whatnot that I’ve never felt like I’ve gotten a good idea of the country. Although I have visited some rural areas that could have served as the setting for a clichÃ??Ã?©d book about some callous, oblivious Westerner finding comfort in the small things and, finally, inner peace (I mean this in a good way).[/quote]
I hope you do make your way back over here in the near future. You will definitely have a place to stay when you get here. With an attached gym![/quote]
I will most definitely be taking you up on that!
I have gathered over the years that Chushin is in Japan, and that you’ve spent much time there; are you still thereabouts, Varqanir, or in (I want to say) Thailand? I feel like I may have asked you this before.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
But…you don’t/can’t/will never really understand what being a Southerner is[/quote]
This is true and I wouldn’t argue against it, although it’s a variation of the “feelings” argument, which is fine on its own but tends to lose when it comes up against harder stuff (historical fact, reasoning). Still, like I said, I know I’m not going to change your mind.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Varq, Cortez and I are all in the same general area, but they are in the sticks, while I’m a Big City guy. 
My wife and I likewise have an extra room for when you want some metropolitan life. (Relatively speaking :-)[/quote]
Too kind! I may just take you folks up on this. If all goes according to plan, I will have a lair on the CT coast sometime in the near future. A reciprocal invitation will be in order.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
…unfortunately, okra…
[/quote]
/Is scandalized
“Unfortunately”? I mean…what? I mean, have you at least tried it fried? Please do so if you haven’t. Please smh, please.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Varq, Cortez and I are all in the same general area, but they are in the sticks, while I’m a Big City guy. My wife and I likewise have an extra room for when you want some metropolitan life. (Relatively speaking :-)[/quote]
Too kind! I may just take you folks up on this. If all goes according to plan, I will have a lair on the CT coast sometime in the near future. A reciprocal invitation will be in order.[/quote]
Hope you do make it.
Push is working on a visit too; be a blast if you guys overlapped.
We could even debate the CSA flag all over again!
[/quote]
Ha! I’m sure there’s some kind of when-in-Japan etiquette regarding political debates with a host…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
…unfortunately, okra…
[/quote]
/Is scandalized
“Unfortunately”? I mean…what? I mean, have you at least tried it fried? Please do so if you haven’t. Please smh, please.
[/quote]
I will concede on merits of fried okra. The unfortunate experience to which I’m referring involved a pile of the little bastards boiled to a wet, dull-green hazardous waste. The feeling was of miniature alligators sliding down the throat.
Edit: But it is not the worst non-strange-animal food I’ve ever eaten. That distinction goes to ugali/fufu, which is indescribably strange, like eating a pile of fabric that is the consistency of semi-dried toothpaste:
AC: Per our exchange (through the much-appreciated medium of Varqanir), and with the hope that we do end up sharing a byline at some point, I’d like to issue a no-hard-feelings. I’d also like to specifically apologize for having used the term “liar,” which, as I said, I don’t believe and regret having tossed around. One of those unthinking things, and not a fair or evidence-based accusation. As for the rest, our misunderstandings and good old-fashioned sound and fury, no ill will remains on my end.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
AC: Per our exchange (through the much-appreciated medium of Varqanir), and with the hope that we do end up sharing a byline at some point, I’d like to issue a no-hard-feelings. I’d also like to specifically apologize for having used the term “liar,” which, as I said, I don’t believe and regret having tossed around. One of those unthinking things, and not a fair or evidence-based accusation. As for the rest, our misunderstandings and good old-fashioned sound and fury, no ill will remains on my end.[/quote]
Happy to see this.
I have been surprisingly concerned about this whole thing. [/quote]
You of all people, Chushin, ought to know how much fun the diplomacy business can be. 