[quote]dhickey wrote:
orion wrote:
Well, if there is such a thing as moderate Islam, yadayadayada…
There are millions…
If they are not the overwhelming majority it makes little difference.[/quote]
Oh, but it does…
Because then killing Muslims indiscriminately either no longer works or you have to admit that the US foreign policy makes enemies out of people that should be your natural allies…
Either way, Islam = evil, is a tad too simplistic…
[quote]orion wrote:
dhickey wrote:
orion wrote:
Well, if there is such a thing as moderate Islam, yadayadayada…
There are millions…
If they are not the overwhelming majority it makes little difference.
Oh, but it does…
Because then killing Muslims indiscriminately either no longer works or you have to admit that the US foreign policy makes enemies out of people that should be your natural allies…
Either way, Islam = evil, is a tad too simplistic…
[/quote]
In your pea brain, you’ve somehow come up with the idea that we’re advocating killing Muslims indiscriminately. No one here suggested such a thing.
Congratulations, you’ve come up with an example of 20 million “Muslims” who don’t advocate jihad. As Lixy is so quick to remind us, there are over 1 billion, and 85% are Sunni, not Alevites. So roughly 2% of the “Muslims” are peaceful if, in fact, they are actually Muslims. Still, these peaceful Alevites failed to prevent the extermination of the Greek and Armenian communities that had lived there for millenia by the rest of the Sunni Muslims in Anatolia. In terms of how Islam relates to its neighbors, these Alevites are irrelevant.
Islam = evil is not simplistic at all, because that’s what the prophet of Islam was: evil. He was a rapist, a paedophile, a murderer, a thief, and a kidnapper. He is a model of behavior in Islam. Just because some of you know some Muslim who is peaceful doesn’t change what Mohammed was or what Islam is. Your anecdotes are irrelevant to the hard doctrines and history of this religion. And it’s pathetic to hear conservatives basing their own opinions on personal anecdotes as well, as we’re supposed to be the ones interested in the facts and the data. It’s usually the liberals who’ve got some heartstring-tugging anecdote upon which we’re to base an entire national policy.
[quote]orion wrote:
pat wrote:
orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
What is this supposed to prove, Orion? There’s a handful of Anatolians who practice this religion, so what? Did it prevent the rest of the Turks and the Kurds from going on a jihad against the millions of Greeks and Armenians who were the original Anatolians? These guys even got massacred themselves:
Well, if there is such a thing as moderate Islam, yadayadayada…
There are millions…
Really? Present evidence, because there is gobs and gobs of it to the contrary…I think this is actually more wishful thinking on your part as you continent is getting over run…You just hope they are nice.
You know really, what the hell, you guys get off on bragging about how many languages you speak, why not add Arabic to the library.
My last girlfriend was an Alevite…
And she was very nice to me :-)…
I really cannot help it that there is an Islamic sect that is more liberal than most religions…
And yes there are between 10 and 20 million of them in Turky alone…
[/quote]
woopteeedooo! There 20 million non-muslims in Turkey…
Here is some info:
“The Alevites were born from the fusion of Christian, Gnostic and Shiite elements. The human is the first visible form of God for the Alevites. As a result, they support the right to self determination of all people - including women, because in Alevism men and women have equal rights.”
“Sunni Imams were installed and pressure was exerted on Alevite families to follow the Koran.”
More info:
So a bunch of peaceful non-muslims prove that a moderate form of islam exists. I am always astounded by you wisdom and insight. Keep it coming laughing boy…
What’s next? Buddhist preists in Tibet are peaceful so that also proves that a moderate form of islam exists?
For the rest of you, I am not doubting there is a moderate islam, I just don’t see it anywhere and I want to. I really, really hope there is, because there 1.2 billion folks who need it.
[quote]pat wrote:
orion wrote:
pat wrote:
orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
What is this supposed to prove, Orion? There’s a handful of Anatolians who practice this religion, so what? Did it prevent the rest of the Turks and the Kurds from going on a jihad against the millions of Greeks and Armenians who were the original Anatolians? These guys even got massacred themselves:
Well, if there is such a thing as moderate Islam, yadayadayada…
There are millions…
Really? Present evidence, because there is gobs and gobs of it to the contrary…I think this is actually more wishful thinking on your part as you continent is getting over run…You just hope they are nice.
You know really, what the hell, you guys get off on bragging about how many languages you speak, why not add Arabic to the library.
My last girlfriend was an Alevite…
And she was very nice to me :-)…
I really cannot help it that there is an Islamic sect that is more liberal than most religions…
And yes there are between 10 and 20 million of them in Turky alone…
woopteeedooo! There 20 million non-muslims in Turkey…
Here is some info:
“The Alevites were born from the fusion of Christian, Gnostic and Shiite elements. The human is the first visible form of God for the Alevites. As a result, they support the right to self determination of all people - including women, because in Alevism men and women have equal rights.”
“Sunni Imams were installed and pressure was exerted on Alevite families to follow the Koran.”
More info:
So a bunch of peaceful non-muslims prove that a moderate form of islam exists. I am always astounded by you wisdom and insight. Keep it coming laughing boy…
What’s next? Buddhist preists in Tibet are peaceful so that also proves that a moderate form of islam exists?
For the rest of you, I am not doubting there is a moderate islam, I just don’t see it anywhere and I want to. I really, really hope there is, because there 1.2 billion folks who need it. [/quote]
For the record, you sound just like her…
However they are an Islamic sect…
The fact that they have evolved, or are evolving beyond that Islam can also change to be a profoundly tolerant and peaceful faith.
It is not just a theory or wishful thinking, some Muslims have actually done that. More than 500 years ago…
Lose them and you lose all of them.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
orion wrote:
dhickey wrote:
orion wrote:
Well, if there is such a thing as moderate Islam, yadayadayada…
There are millions…
If they are not the overwhelming majority it makes little difference.
Oh, but it does…
Because then killing Muslims indiscriminately either no longer works or you have to admit that the US foreign policy makes enemies out of people that should be your natural allies…
Either way, Islam = evil, is a tad too simplistic…
In your pea brain, you’ve somehow come up with the idea that we’re advocating killing Muslims indiscriminately. No one here suggested such a thing.
Congratulations, you’ve come up with an example of 20 million “Muslims” who don’t advocate jihad. As Lixy is so quick to remind us, there are over 1 billion, and 85% are Sunni, not Alevites. So roughly 2% of the “Muslims” are peaceful if, in fact, they are actually Muslims.
Still, these peaceful Alevites failed to prevent the extermination of the Greek and Armenian communities that had lived there for millenia by the rest of the Sunni Muslims in Anatolia. In terms of how Islam relates to its neighbors, these Alevites are irrelevant.
Islam = evil is not simplistic at all, because that’s what the prophet of Islam was: evil. He was a rapist, a paedophile, a murderer, a thief, and a kidnapper. He is a model of behavior in Islam. Just because some of you know some Muslim who is peaceful doesn’t change what Mohammed was or what Islam is.
Your anecdotes are irrelevant to the hard doctrines and history of this religion. And it’s pathetic to hear conservatives basing their own opinions on personal anecdotes as well, as we’re supposed to be the ones interested in the facts and the data. It’s usually the liberals who’ve got some heartstring-tugging anecdote upon which we’re to base an entire national policy.
[/quote]
Well, fuck you too Sir!
And please, suck my cock while you´re at it.
And no, I feel no need to read farther than your first paragraph.
PS: Do you kiss your Mum with that mouth?
PPS: Or do you really think you will ever be confronted with different views by talking trash?
Or are you on this forum to just reinforce your opinion?
Why don´t you just stand in front of a mirror and masturbate then?
Would any other country treat him quite so well? Maybe only the one that is considering adopting sharia law.
Nice to see the folks from Britain subsidizing cancer.
I am sure that the moderate muslims will help keep him in line.
Good luck with that.
MUSLIMS OFFENDED BY SNIFFER DOGS
Sharia law will help “sniff out” this problem in Britain:
Good luck with this also.
A few points:
“During the first quarter of the 20th century it was estimated that there were around 10,000 Muslims in Britain. Now there are between 1 and 2 million British Muslims (2% - 4% of the population), and over half of them were born in Britain.”
Americans bitching about Muslims immigrating to the US should be lobbying their representatives to stop the influx of Muslims into their land. I don’t know how you can deal with Americans converting to Islam or the increasing number of mosques in the US, but I’m sure you can figure something out without resorting too much to mass-slaughter.
Once again, you guys are making abstraction of the “voluntary” aspect of Lord Phillips’ statement. Not only is opposing it a disregard for a fundamental component of British law, but it’s also an attack on freedom. Next thing you know, you’ll be telling us that people can’t put an end to their suffering through euthanasia or that girl can’t have abortions…Oh wait, nevermind…
[quote]nephorm wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
What do you know of Islamic jurisprudence? Anything? What is this opinion based on?
Some. I am not going to get into it with you.
I do know people who are Muslim and moderate, and who dislike the behavior of the radical Islamists. If you feel they are not vocal enough - I do not know what to tell you. They are as vocal as any other regular person.
I realize there is nothing that I can say that will change your mind on this issue.[/quote]
I don’t think individual muslims have much power to change anything right now. You have to address it from the top down in my opinion. Religious leaders, scholars and authors, schooling (most important), etc. Expecting individual moderate muslims to make any conciderable differense is like asking me to change the fucked-up Repulican party. I would like to but it’s not going to happen in any appreciable way. They need people that are willing and in a place to lead.
[quote]lixy wrote:
A few points:
Americans bitching about Muslims immigrating to the US should be lobbying their representatives to stop the influx of Muslims into their land. I don’t know how you can deal with Americans converting to Islam or the increasing number of mosques in the US, but I’m sure you can figure something out without resorting too much to mass-slaughter.
Once again, you guys are making abstraction of the “voluntary” aspect of Lord Phillips’ statement. Not only is opposing it a disregard for a fundamental component of British law, but it’s also an attack on freedom. Next thing you know, you’ll be telling us that people can’t put an end to their suffering through euthanasia or that girl can’t have abortions…Oh wait, nevermind…[/quote]
I don’t want them to stop coming over just like I don’t want to stop any group from coming over. The problem is with assimilation. The problem is not theirs but the peolpe that allow the option not to assimilate. Multiculturism can be great but at some point to have to creat some sort of ethics, laws, and courtacies that we all follow. Common language, at least a base of common values, common acceptance and adhearance to an “American” culture, which in my mind is quite broad. Same goes for the UK.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Fuck that. One law for all works nicely for me. If they don’t want English law, they shouldn’t have moved there.
Fucking cunts.[/quote]
Agreed, but I’ll say it’s okay as long as citizens from other countries can use their laws at home in Islamic countries.
[quote]lixy wrote:
A few points:
“During the first quarter of the 20th century it was estimated that there were around 10,000 Muslims in Britain. Now there are between 1 and 2 million British Muslims (2% - 4% of the population), and over half of them were born in Britain.”
Americans bitching about Muslims immigrating to the US should be lobbying their representatives to stop the influx of Muslims into their land. I don’t know how you can deal with Americans converting to Islam or the increasing number of mosques in the US, but I’m sure you can figure something out without resorting too much to mass-slaughter.
Once again, you guys are making abstraction of the “voluntary” aspect of Lord Phillips’ statement. Not only is opposing it a disregard for a fundamental component of British law, but it’s also an attack on freedom. Next thing you know, you’ll be telling us that people can’t put an end to their suffering through euthanasia or that girl can’t have abortions…Oh wait, nevermind…[/quote]
Lixy, shut the fuck up. You know as well as I do there is nothing voluntary about this for the women involved. The women that need the protection of the law the most are the ones that lose it under Sharia law.