Shane Carwin

Training
41

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
power and mass have little to do with each other

not that I think the trainer has a clue.
its a hype video plain and simple

still have we really seen enough of either of these fighters, to judge definitively

how long have they combined been in fights something like 43 minutes?

Carwins mass loss might be part of a few things,
gassing like a goon
rehab and inactivity
and the 300lb elephant in the room AAS.
someone had to right??

carwin has the edge on big shots
not so sure that JDS has as heavy hands

I think its about game plans - who has the beter one
and who doesnt get chin checked first
[/quote]

Yeah I hate to say it KMC but I think the 300lb elephant in the room is the actual reason. I mean I’m jumping to conclusions here, and I’m no expert, but if you look at him at the weigh-in you can tell he hasn’t dropped 25lbs of fat. If you go farther back and look at his previous fights (specifically those in the WEC) he looks rather vascular, lean, and with fuller muscle bellies. Now this is pure speculation, but I’m speculating that at some point AAS has been involved. Fudge.

42

[quote]Beershoes wrote:

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
power and mass have little to do with each other

not that I think the trainer has a clue.
its a hype video plain and simple

still have we really seen enough of either of these fighters, to judge definitively

how long have they combined been in fights something like 43 minutes?

Carwins mass loss might be part of a few things,
gassing like a goon
rehab and inactivity
and the 300lb elephant in the room AAS.
someone had to right??

carwin has the edge on big shots
not so sure that JDS has as heavy hands

I think its about game plans - who has the beter one
and who doesnt get chin checked first
[/quote]

Yeah I hate to say it KMC but I think the 300lb elephant in the room is the actual reason. I mean I’m jumping to conclusions here, and I’m no expert, but if you look at him at the weigh-in you can tell he hasn’t dropped 25lbs of fat. If you go farther back and look at his previous fights (specifically those in the WEC) he looks rather vascular, lean, and with fuller muscle bellies. Now this is pure speculation, but I’m speculating that at some point AAS has been involved. Fudge.[/quote]

Of course he was juicing. He was upwards of 290lbs with abs. I’d bet dollars to donuts he’s still juicing, he’s just putting a lot less focus on the weightroom and that time that’s now open is spent working on his skills. Like I posted earlier, he’s gotten progressively less muscular and progressively more soft with each fight in the UFC, but has looked much better as a fighter. Also, didn’t see a shirt off weigh-in pic, but the pic where they’re both in their fight stance and their fists are within a couple of inches of the others, Carwin’s fist DWARFED JDS’s. I mean it is at least 1 & 1/2 the size. That’s fucking crazy.

43

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
well, the protein thing is kinda wierd…Mike Dolce has been pretty vocal about cutting fighters protein consumption in order to increase their endurance. very high protein diets may alter the pH (to what degree is debateable), hence some of these guys changing this…Couture was a hige alkaline diet proponet because of this. Alves recently started workign with Dolce as well, and apparently cut back on his protein…

with that being said, who knows how much protein Carwin was eating? he might have been eating like shit, and is eating somethign like an athlete vs a bodybilder (hence the size change)[/quote]

I’m just going to say a few things about protein consumption in general. I lift, do various cardio activities, and grapple and strike. Now I know I don’t do any of those at the levels of the guys we’re talking about, but I can still tell you without doubt that changing my protein levels did very little to change my body composition. I was literally eating 2 grams (or more) per lb of body weight, and as per a friends advice dropped that drastically. I’m now eating roughly .75 grams per lb of body weight. The only real tangible change I noticed was in the amount and stench of my farts.

I think people COULD be using protein restriction as a way to cover up mass lost from AAS use.

44

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Beershoes wrote:

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
power and mass have little to do with each other

not that I think the trainer has a clue.
its a hype video plain and simple

still have we really seen enough of either of these fighters, to judge definitively

how long have they combined been in fights something like 43 minutes?

Carwins mass loss might be part of a few things,
gassing like a goon
rehab and inactivity
and the 300lb elephant in the room AAS.
someone had to right??

carwin has the edge on big shots
not so sure that JDS has as heavy hands

I think its about game plans - who has the beter one
and who doesnt get chin checked first
[/quote]

Yeah I hate to say it KMC but I think the 300lb elephant in the room is the actual reason. I mean I’m jumping to conclusions here, and I’m no expert, but if you look at him at the weigh-in you can tell he hasn’t dropped 25lbs of fat. If you go farther back and look at his previous fights (specifically those in the WEC) he looks rather vascular, lean, and with fuller muscle bellies. Now this is pure speculation, but I’m speculating that at some point AAS has been involved. Fudge.[/quote]

Of course he was juicing. He was upwards of 290lbs with abs. I’d bet dollars to donuts he’s still juicing, he’s just putting a lot less focus on the weightroom and that time that’s now open is spent working on his skills. Like I posted earlier, he’s gotten progressively less muscular and progressively more soft with each fight in the UFC, but has looked much better as a fighter. Also, didn’t see a shirt off weigh-in pic, but the pic where they’re both in their fight stance and their fists are within a couple of inches of the others, Carwin’s fist DWARFED JDS’s. I mean it is at least 1 & 1/2 the size. That’s fucking crazy.[/quote]

Yeah he looked at about the body fat of the lesnar fight (not that this is an indication of anything other than body fat!) so that’s why I was finally giving in and agreeing about AAS. I just won’t accuse anyone of it, I’ll only speculate.

Yeah, Carwin has the largest fists in the UFC.

45

[quote]Beershoes wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
well, the protein thing is kinda wierd…Mike Dolce has been pretty vocal about cutting fighters protein consumption in order to increase their endurance. very high protein diets may alter the pH (to what degree is debateable), hence some of these guys changing this…Couture was a hige alkaline diet proponet because of this. Alves recently started workign with Dolce as well, and apparently cut back on his protein…

with that being said, who knows how much protein Carwin was eating? he might have been eating like shit, and is eating somethign like an athlete vs a bodybilder (hence the size change)[/quote]

I’m just going to say a few things about protein consumption in general. I lift, do various cardio activities, and grapple and strike. Now I know I don’t do any of those at the levels of the guys we’re talking about, but I can still tell you without doubt that changing my protein levels did very little to change my body composition. I was literally eating 2 grams (or more) per lb of body weight, and as per a friends advice dropped that drastically. I’m now eating roughly .75 grams per lb of body weight. The only real tangible change I noticed was in the amount and stench of my farts.

I think people COULD be using protein restriction as a way to cover up mass lost from AAS use. [/quote]

I never thought that eating 2grams of protein per pound of body weight was a good idea. The best research that I’ve ever read says that anything over .75 per pound of body weight is a waste. Naturally supplement company’s want you to consume more. And ice cream company’s want you to eat more ice cream - Hey it’s called capitalism, I don’t blame them. Anyway, I have no idea how much protein Carwin has been eating but I didn’t like the reports from his nutritionist.

All of that aside I thought Carwin looked good at the weigh in, in fact far better than I expected. I also think that he has a very nasty attitude, not that JDS is a pusscat in the octagon. But, 24 hours out if I were to bet it, I’d bet on Carwin.

46

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Beershoes wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
well, the protein thing is kinda wierd…Mike Dolce has been pretty vocal about cutting fighters protein consumption in order to increase their endurance. very high protein diets may alter the pH (to what degree is debateable), hence some of these guys changing this…Couture was a hige alkaline diet proponet because of this. Alves recently started workign with Dolce as well, and apparently cut back on his protein…

with that being said, who knows how much protein Carwin was eating? he might have been eating like shit, and is eating somethign like an athlete vs a bodybilder (hence the size change)[/quote]

I’m just going to say a few things about protein consumption in general. I lift, do various cardio activities, and grapple and strike. Now I know I don’t do any of those at the levels of the guys we’re talking about, but I can still tell you without doubt that changing my protein levels did very little to change my body composition. I was literally eating 2 grams (or more) per lb of body weight, and as per a friends advice dropped that drastically. I’m now eating roughly .75 grams per lb of body weight. The only real tangible change I noticed was in the amount and stench of my farts.

I think people COULD be using protein restriction as a way to cover up mass lost from AAS use. [/quote]

I never thought that eating 2grams of protein per pound of body weight was a good idea. The best research that I’ve ever read says that anything over .75 per pound of body weight is a waste. Naturally supplement company’s want you to consume more. And ice cream company’s want you to eat more ice cream - Hey it’s called capitalism, I don’t blame them. Anyway, I have no idea how much protein Carwin has been eating but I didn’t like the reports from his nutritionist.

All of that aside I thought Carwin looked good at the weigh in, in fact far better than I expected. I also think that he has a very nasty attitude, not that JDS is a pusscat in the octagon. But, 24 hours out if I were to bet it, I’d bet on Carwin. [/quote]

So you are saying to get 2 g per pound of body weight of protein from ice cream. Got it. Seems high to me, but probably that whole eat to up my metabolism thing right? Can I eat it with chocolate sprinkles, or will the chocamine interfere with hypertrophy?

As for the fight. I have no idea. Two big unknowns for me.

First, Carwin’s recovery post surgery. This has been covered already.

Second, how is JDS on the ground? I do not recall seeing any of his ground game in the past. He is a brown belt under the Nogueira brothers and all of their fighters have been impressive, especially off their backs. If his bottom game is anywhere as good as Silva’s, Carwin could play right into the “tire myself out, get careless, get submitted” strategy.

Regards,

Robert A

47

Pudz should learn from Carwin.

48

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Beershoes wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
well, the protein thing is kinda wierd…Mike Dolce has been pretty vocal about cutting fighters protein consumption in order to increase their endurance. very high protein diets may alter the pH (to what degree is debateable), hence some of these guys changing this…Couture was a hige alkaline diet proponet because of this. Alves recently started workign with Dolce as well, and apparently cut back on his protein…

with that being said, who knows how much protein Carwin was eating? he might have been eating like shit, and is eating somethign like an athlete vs a bodybilder (hence the size change)[/quote]

I’m just going to say a few things about protein consumption in general. I lift, do various cardio activities, and grapple and strike. Now I know I don’t do any of those at the levels of the guys we’re talking about, but I can still tell you without doubt that changing my protein levels did very little to change my body composition. I was literally eating 2 grams (or more) per lb of body weight, and as per a friends advice dropped that drastically. I’m now eating roughly .75 grams per lb of body weight. The only real tangible change I noticed was in the amount and stench of my farts.

I think people COULD be using protein restriction as a way to cover up mass lost from AAS use. [/quote]

I never thought that eating 2grams of protein per pound of body weight was a good idea. The best research that I’ve ever read says that anything over .75 per pound of body weight is a waste. Naturally supplement company’s want you to consume more. And ice cream company’s want you to eat more ice cream - Hey it’s called capitalism, I don’t blame them. Anyway, I have no idea how much protein Carwin has been eating but I didn’t like the reports from his nutritionist.
[/quote]

The thing with protein consumption is that these athletes are expending a ton of calories from their skill training, conditioning (GPP) training, and sparring. Not to mention that they still must eat enough to support their basic bodily functions (BMR). So, if they are only going to eat .75 grams of protein per lb, (i.e. 150 grams for a 200 lb athlete, which equates to just 450 kcals), they are going to have to eat A LOT of their diet from carbs and fat.

Now, some naturally ectomorphic or mesomorphic individuals might be able to get away with this (especially since they are expending so much energy in the form of glycolysis), but even then most people are going to quickly run into issues from a body composition standpoint since they are also going to have to eat a lot of calories from fat to hit their necessary kcal intake (and anyone who has read any of the articles here from the nutritionists knows that lots of insulin plus lots of dietary fat is not great for body comp).

Let’s also not forget that protein has many beneficial functions in the body besides just muscle building. Protein is the building blocks for all cells (immune cells, red blood cells, hair, skin, finger/toe nails, etc…), so considering that these athletes’ bodies are already pretty much maxed out trying to repair (and hopefully improve) their muscular systems from their training, dropping things that low is probably eventually going to cause people to run into problems in terms of recovery (which of course could be somewhat negated by AAS use, which it’s a good chance many MMA fighters do use for this purpose).

I do agree though that fighters probably don’t need 2 grams per pound of bodyweight (at least not on a daily basis) like many bodybuilders prescribe due to having different goals/needs.

49

Sento, I see what you’re saying about carbs and fats and body comp, but these guys are doing so much work that they need a shit ton of calories just to function, so eating enough to work at a high level is the number 1 goal and the body comp takes care of itself due to the demands of the work being done. Also, 2 g protein per lb might be a bit much, but for someone who’s training that hard .75g is probably a bit low. 1g-ish should be enough as long as total cals are high.