Shakes and Tremors

beastblob · July 17, 2006, 4:12pm

Hello, all. I decided it was time to “shit or get off the pot” I bought a 60ml bottle of liquid clen. I found nothing but conflicting info, on how much to take, for how long, and for cycle duration. So I’ve been experementing, it comes with a droper that is marked off in .25ml incraments. the first day I had taken .50 the next I tryed 1ml (hands shake really noticable) and the third .75. thats it so far.

My plan is to take it for 2 weeks at .75 (if this is not enough or is to much somebody that has used this before please let me know). then go off for two weeks and go agian.

Prisoner · July 17, 2006, 8:04pm

If you are experiencing these effects, you are overdosing, and you need to back off on your dose untill these sides are no longer noticeable.

The drug is beta2 specific, therefore, any other effects other than to the beta2 receptor means it is ‘spilling’ over and causing other stimulatory effects that are unneeded, and frankly since clen is very dangerous, risky business.

biscuite · July 18, 2006, 12:01am

If I were you, I would cut that dosage in half at least. let us know how it goes.

Good luck man

biscuite

beastblob · July 23, 2006, 3:35am

well so far so good my hands shake alittle bit with the .75ml but not to much that it interfers with any thing, one thing that I did notice is that the muscles contract HARD. most of the lifts I did the muscles contracted so hard that I cramped bad.

had to cut my squat session short due to it, did my warmup and then was doing box squats (my box is 4" below parallel) my legs started cramping up in my 2nd and my 3rd was almost unbearable, went on to other movements at that time, but kept cramping. I’m not sure if this is related but I’m pissing about every 5min. I’ll check my weght and bodyfat at the end of this week and see were I got.

cadav · July 23, 2006, 1:03pm

[quote]beastblob wrote:
well so far so good my hands shake alittle bit with the .75ml but not to much that it interfers with any thing, one thing that I did notice is that the muscles contract HARD. most of the lifts I did the muscles contracted so hard that I cramped bad.
[/quote]

clen is not an easy drug to use.
i have a lot of sides related mainly to its stimulant effects and its taurina depletion.

hard contractions is one of the common sides of clen. you can prevent it adding taurina and potassium to the cycle

vitaman1971 · July 23, 2006, 8:55pm

There is no doubt that clen as well as other simulants such as ephedra and caffeine will inhibit absorption of electrolytes to some degree i.e. potassium, calcium, magnesium and Na.

Takeing extra with meals throughout the day can definately help to lessen if not prevent the cramps altogether.

Prisoner · July 23, 2006, 11:56pm

[quote]vitaman1971 wrote:
There is no doubt that clen as well as other simulants such as ephedra and caffeine will inhibit absorption of electrolytes to some degree i.e. potassium, calcium, magnesium and Na.

Takeing extra with meals throughout the day can definately help to lessen if not prevent the cramps altogether.[/quote]

O.k this post is completely wrong, as you missed the absolute most important electrolyte: Sodium!

The cramps will not be solved by increasing supplementing. You don’t know what electrolytes could be low, and my bet is that none are low, so supplementing specific electroytes is a huge guessing game, as the signs and symptoms of too much electrolyte or not enough are too simmilar to distinguish, without blood work.

Clen is what is causing the cramps, and therefore lowering the doses of said stimulent is the only SAFE way to reverse the cramps. Keep also in mind that clens binds directly to receptors in your heart as well!

vitaman1971 · July 24, 2006, 1:07am

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
vitaman1971 wrote:
There is no doubt that clen as well as other simulants such as ephedra and caffeine will inhibit absorption of electrolytes to some degree i.e. potassium, calcium, magnesium and Na.

Takeing extra with meals throughout the day can definately help to lessen if not prevent the cramps altogether.

O.k this post is completely wrong, as you missed the absolute most important electrolyte: Sodium!

The cramps will not be solved by increasing supplementing. You don’t know what electrolytes could be low, and my bet is that none are low, so supplementing specific electroytes is a huge guessing game, as the signs and symptoms of too much electrolyte or not enough are too simmilar to distinguish, without blood work.

Clen is what is causing the cramps, and therefore lowering the doses of said stimulent is the only SAFE way to reverse the cramps. Keep also in mind that clens binds directly to receptors in your heart as well![/quote]

Na is sodium as I stated! Granted I didn’t put the positive charge on there due to it being an inconvience.

More times than not, supplementing electrolytes helps alleviate the cramps in my experiance.
I agree with you that lowering the dosage is a way of getting rid of the cramps, but if you lower the dosage to the point of sacraficing a body temperature increase, you are not going to get the fat burning properties that clen has to offer.

At that point it would be useless to take.
Most people on a low carbohydrate diet find it hard to get much potassium in there regimen. The average sized avocado has around 1200-1300 mgs of potassium. This would be a great item to add to the diet.
Getting sodium is easy to add, while magnesium is quite difficult to find in food. A supplement could be used here. A Magnesium Glycinate is excellent.

With all due respect to you Prisoner I do not see how you can make the statement that my post was completely wrong.
Electrolytes regulate muscle contraction as well as heart beat.

beastblob · July 24, 2006, 5:21am

thanx for the advice I’m adding ZMA, and pottasium to my suppluments. and thanx for the concern prisoner i’ve been reading up on clen for awhile now and hope I’ve weighed the pro’s and con’s of this. so far the sides have not been that bad, less than expected the shakes are not bad, i’ve had not had my heart racing or pounding out my ears. so, so far so good, if it works I’ll probably cycle this every few months and in between see if I can’t find some oral liquid AAS. we’ll see

cadav · July 24, 2006, 11:49am

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:

Clen is what is causing the cramps, and therefore lowering the doses of said stimulent is the only SAFE way to reverse the cramps. Keep also in mind that clens binds directly to receptors in your heart as well![/quote]

Clen is a dangerous drugs, there is no dubt. it is dangerous for the heart and for the miocardio.

but from my own experience i found that supplementing with 1/2gr of taurine every 50mcg of clen “clean” muscle related sides (cramps, hard contraptions)

BTW i have to specify that i am very tollerant to all the stimulants (from caffeina to clen, ephedrine and “others”)

vitaman1971 · July 24, 2006, 6:03pm

It is true that the kidneys do a fantastic job of keeping ions in the blood at a balanced level. (Homeostatis)

You could get your blood levels checked for the electrolytes and they would come out normal even if you drank one gallon of coffee a day and were having severe muscle spasms.

There is a fine line that is crossed with electrolyte balance for normal survival like the heart beating normal and normal cellular function and having some muscle cramps.

If one of the electrolytes are depleated or inbalanced even just a tad it could cause muscle cramps.

Of Course the CLEN is causing the cramps!!! But how???
Someone Please tell me HOW…
If it isn’t an electrolyte thing that regulates normal muscle contraction then what is it???

trojanman · July 24, 2006, 6:20pm

this is a great read so far.

beastblob · July 24, 2006, 8:20pm

[quote]vitaman1971 wrote:If one of the electrolytes are depleated or inbalanced even just a tad it could cause muscle cramps.

Of Course the CLEN is causing the cramps!!! But how???
Someone Please tell me HOW…
If it isn’t an electrolyte thing that regulates normal muscle contraction then what is it???[/quote]

the way that I see it is that clen is a Beta-2 antagonist and that while its telling the fat cells to let go its also pushing out the NA(sodium) and potassium and not in equel numbers. another possability is that it deplets taurine levels which is the most abundant amino acid in the body. thats probably why I’m pissing every 5min.

vitaman1971 · July 25, 2006, 3:31am

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
vitaman1971 wrote:
It is true that the kidneys do a fantastic job of keeping ions in the blood at a balanced level. (Homeostatis)

You could get your blood levels checked for the electrolytes and they would come out normal even if you drank one gallon of coffee a day and were having severe muscle spasms.

There is a fine line that is crossed with electrolyte balance for normal survival like the heart beating normal and normal cellular function and having some muscle cramps.

If one of the electrolytes are depleated or inbalanced even just a tad it could cause muscle cramps.

Of Course the CLEN is causing the cramps!!! But how???
Someone Please tell me HOW…
If it isn’t an electrolyte thing that regulates normal muscle contraction then what is it???

Well as I understand it, a cramp is a form of tetany, ie a summation of nervous motor impulses (just like any sustained muscular contraction), BUT all the motor units fire at once and won’t release immediately. Whether a ‘clen cramp’ is a result of nervous system interference (clen is a NS stimulator after all, though there are no beta 2 receptors in skeletal muscle - as far as I’m aware), altered cellular biochemistry or a mixture of both - I really have no idea, lol. HOWEVER, a single subQ injection of clen into rats has been shown to a rapid increase in both cyclic AMP and lactate concentrations, as well as a drop in glycogen levels (1). I am just throwing idea around now, but since it requires chemical energy (ATP) to RELEASE contractile protein binding, and since clen (in rats) fucks around with intracellular energy (glycogen) reserves, could this not be the reason why clen causes muscles to not want to relax, post-contraction?..

REF:…Effects of clenbuterol and propranolol on muscle mass. Evidence that clenbuterol stimulates muscle beta-adrenoceptors to induce hypertrophy.
MacLennan PA, Edwards RH.
Biochem J. 1989 Dec 1; 264(2): 573-579.[/quote]

Bushy, I had a feeling that you would come up with a very valid response here.
I think that what you said could be a likely reason.
I am glad you took the effort to look into this, and I will do some follow- up on this topic as well.

Vitaman

Prisoner · July 25, 2006, 9:09pm

[quote]vitaman1971 wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
vitaman1971 wrote:
There is no doubt that clen as well as other simulants such as ephedra and caffeine will inhibit absorption of electrolytes to some degree i.e. potassium, calcium, magnesium and Na.

Takeing extra with meals throughout the day can definately help to lessen if not prevent the cramps altogether.

O.k this post is completely wrong, as you missed the absolute most important electrolyte: Sodium!

The cramps will not be solved by increasing supplementing. You don’t know what electrolytes could be low, and my bet is that none are low, so supplementing specific electroytes is a huge guessing game, as the signs and symptoms of too much electrolyte or not enough are too simmilar to distinguish, without blood work.

Clen is what is causing the cramps, and therefore lowering the doses of said stimulent is the only SAFE way to reverse the cramps. Keep also in mind that clens binds directly to receptors in your heart as well!

Na is sodium as I stated! Granted I didn’t put the positive charge on there due to it being an inconvience.

More times than not, supplementing electrolytes helps alleviate the cramps in my experiance.
I agree with you that lowering the dosage is a way of getting rid of the cramps, but if you lower the dosage to the point of sacraficing a body temperature increase, you are not going to get the fat burning properties that clen has to offer.

At that point it would be useless to take.
Most people on a low carbohydrate diet find it hard to get much potassium in there regimen. The average sized avocado has around 1200-1300 mgs of potassium. This would be a great item to add to the diet.
Getting sodium is easy to add, while magnesium is quite difficult to find in food. A supplement could be used here. A Magnesium Glycinate is excellent.

With all due respect to you Prisoner I do not see how you can make the statement that my post was completely wrong.
Electrolytes regulate muscle contraction as well as heart beat.[/quote]

oops, sorry I missed the NA - usually in my line of work NA is the first of all electrolytes listed. So speed reading, my eyes didn’t catch that.

Anyways supplementing vitamens and minerals is good, however making the assumption that you are low on a specific electrolyte, then superdosing youself to compensate is bad.

Prisoner · July 25, 2006, 9:18pm

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
vitaman1971 wrote:
It is true that the kidneys do a fantastic job of keeping ions in the blood at a balanced level. (Homeostatis)

You could get your blood levels checked for the electrolytes and they would come out normal even if you drank one gallon of coffee a day and were having severe muscle spasms.

There is a fine line that is crossed with electrolyte balance for normal survival like the heart beating normal and normal cellular function and having some muscle cramps.

If one of the electrolytes are depleated or inbalanced even just a tad it could cause muscle cramps.

Of Course the CLEN is causing the cramps!!! But how???
Someone Please tell me HOW…
If it isn’t an electrolyte thing that regulates normal muscle contraction then what is it???

Well as I understand it, a cramp is a form of tetany, ie a summation of nervous motor impulses (just like any sustained muscular contraction), BUT all the motor units fire at once and won’t release immediately. Whether a ‘clen cramp’ is a result of nervous system interference (clen is a NS stimulator after all, though there are no beta 2 receptors in skeletal muscle - as far as I’m aware), altered cellular biochemistry or a mixture of both - I really have no idea, lol. HOWEVER, a single subQ injection of clen into rats has been shown to a rapid increase in both cyclic AMP and lactate concentrations, as well as a drop in glycogen levels (1). I am just throwing idea around now, but since it requires chemical energy (ATP) to RELEASE contractile protein binding, and since clen (in rats) fucks around with intracellular energy (glycogen) reserves, could this not be the reason why clen causes muscles to not want to relax, post-contraction?..

REF:…Effects of clenbuterol and propranolol on muscle mass. Evidence that clenbuterol stimulates muscle beta-adrenoceptors to induce hypertrophy.
MacLennan PA, Edwards RH.
Biochem J. 1989 Dec 1; 264(2): 573-579.[/quote]

Let’s also not forget that muscle contractions are caused by the release of calcium - not sodium and potasium, so I am sure the problem stems more along these lines - the clen possibly causing acetecholine to fire causing release of calcium channels.

never the less I will add that with all my experience of patients who are hypokalemic or hyperkalemic, I have never had any that had cramps, such as what even I have experienced while dieting and on clen.

vitaman1971 · July 27, 2006, 5:22pm

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
vitaman1971 wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
vitaman1971 wrote:
There is no doubt that clen as well as other simulants such as ephedra and caffeine will inhibit absorption of electrolytes to some degree i.e. potassium, calcium, magnesium and Na.