Lower E2 and fT will increase and that will also make you feel better.
No need to ever test LH/FSH again, might be a cheaper panel.
Increase iodine and see if body temps improve, if they do, that can make a big change in how you feel.
[/quote]
I took .2mg Adex per day for week or so. Started to feel quite a bit better after a few days. Stopped on Monday, which will be a week out from my doc appt for more blood work. Will start it again immediately after. I’ll actually see the doc and go over bw a week after BW. It took me awhile to find someone willing to treat me, so don’t want to turn him off by doing Adex on my own. Pretty sure he’ll give me a script for adex, so I can gut it out for another week.
The blood work above was only $60. I was really only interested in E2 at the time, but another for another $30 I figured what the hell.
The bought some iodine she hasn’t been taking, so I’ll try that and see if body temps come up. I do use Iodized salt and take some in my multi.
Latest results. The morning of my scheduled bi-weekly injection of 100mg. He doesn’t want to see me back for 4 months. This a bit scary seeing how far away I am from optimizing treatment, so I guess I’ll be tweaking and testing on my own.
E2
He obviously gave me a script for Arimidex. I had already been taking liquidex for a week, .2mg per day. Started up again after this blood draw. He wants me to start Arimidex at 1mg per day and adjust if I get joint pain. That seems like a bit too much, but I might use the script to do 1mg twice weekly with my injection and test after a few weeks.
Test
He wants me to up my dose from .5cc to .6cc twice a week. Said my T wasn’t that high, so I must be metabolizing fast. I guess I’d rather get E2 down to at least 30 and see where T sits after that. 700 seems pretty good for 72hrs after injection. Free T doesn’t look that good though.
HCG
I started 250IU every other day a couple weeks ago. Nuts were really pulled up tight and uncomfortable. Helped almost immediately, but didn’t notice any other effect. Not religious about this. Don’t take it with me when I travel for a couple days.
Progesterone
I mentioned I use 20mg transdermally before bed to help with sleep. He have me a script for 100mg capsules. Quite a bit cheaper than the cream. We’ll see how it compares.
Thyroid
Still thinks I have Hashi’s but doesn’t want to mess with it until we have T and E sorted. Fine, but kind of sucks he doesn’t want to do any testing or tweaking for 4 months. Oh well. Some odd test results here, but maybe that just verifies some issues. Total T4, Total T3 and Free T4 are a bit low, but Free T3 looks pretty good. weird.
Other oddities. Seems strange that E2 was so high and SHBG was so low. Seems strange that SHBG was so low but free T was also low. Pregnenolone is a little low. Probably indicative of continuing adrenal issues. Thinking about going back on Preg cream to get that up a bit and maybe help with anxiety that’s come back.
Thyroid numbers are not right. fT3 is good, but others low. Still suggests that iodine might be low and that your fT4–>fT3 rate is high, or that rT3 is very low, but that is a wild guess.
Doc is prescribing female dose of anastrozole and female HRT dose of progesterone. Too much progesterone may have adverse effects, could increase E2 by loading up liver enzyme pathways. All oral progesterone passes through the liver first and the serum concentrations in the portal vein can be very high.
T @ 120mg/week seems reasonable. hCG can lift T as well
Thanks for sharing. I have a lot of the same questions and symptoms.
Reading this really makes me want to look into pregnenolone.
I know what you’re saying about the waiting. I always think about how much more productive I could be if I could just feel better RIGHT NOW. Frustrating!
I agree that the prescibed AI dose seems high. Figuring out the Arimidex has been the hardest thing for me. I still cannot get it just right for some reason.
HCG has made a big difference for me. I have had trouble being consistent at times but I’ve learned its worth the effort. - Make an extra effort to be consistent and see it that helps. - Because HCG has a short half life, getting your dose frequently/consistently is important.
Question: is there something specific that makes your doc think you have Hashimotos and not just a Thyroid problem? Is there a test or something to differentiate the two?
[quote]KSman wrote:
Thyroid numbers are not right. fT3 is good, but others low. Still suggests that iodine might be low and that your fT4–>fT3 rate is high, or that rT3 is very low, but that is a wild guess.
[/quote]
I’ve use iodized salt and my multi has iodine. I started taking some Iodine drops as well, but have not been consistent. It’s in the wife’s supplement cabinet, so I forget. Is there a particular type or brand of iodine that you like?
I’ve been taking quite a bit of selenium, which I believe is supposed to help with T4-T3. Ran out this week and didn’t plan on refilling. I guess we’ll see if anything changes without the extra selenium.
I’ll stick with 20mg transdermally. Just bought some KAL brand, per your suggestion, last week anyway. With E2 at 80, what would be a sensible dose of Adex? When my T was in the 400s and E2 was in the 40s, .2mg per day got it into the 20s. Would doing 1mg with each bi-weekly injection be a good start, or just stick with the liquid version and do a daily dose? The 1mg pills are covered by insurance, so a bit cheaper. I’ll test E2 in couple weeks.
[quote]
T @ 120mg/week seems reasonable. hCG can lift T as well
Any change in body temperature observations?[/quote]
He currently has me doing 100mg twice a week, so 200 per week. He wanted me to up that a bit. I’m really hesitant to do that because of the sides I’m already having. Anxiety, no control over temper, etc. Guessing these are E2 related(I feel like I’m on the rag), so was going to get that where I wanted it and retest T.
Because of the crazy sides, which include cold and hot flashes, I have not been logging body temps. Will start again now that I’m feeling slightly better.
Question: is there something specific that makes your doc think you have Hashimotos and not just a Thyroid problem? Is there a test or something to differentiate the two?
[/quote]
Pretty sure it’s the ANTI-TPO. He said it should be at 0.
In a case like yours, I think that we should scale anastrozole dose relative to TT=800, not the T dose. If you think that you will get to TT=800, try 1 mg/week. Take 1/2 mg when you inject, that has a convenience factor.
Your mood issues are E2. You will feel if the anastrozole dose is working.
Can you test TT and E2 in two weeks? - test 1/2 way between injection.
I am going to order some more testing. It’ll probably be three weeks before my schedule allows a visit to labcorp. I’ll do it in between injections this time. I’ve been doing .2mg Adex per day. I’ll switch to .5 twice weekly. Going to be cheaper to use the script anyway.
I started out at .5mg Adex with twice weekly injections of 100mg Test C. I was still having E sides, so I upped it to 1mg with each injection. Also doing 250IU HCG EOD. This was 48hrs after my last T and HCG injection.
Looks like I can drop T and Adex a bit. Thinking I should try 50mg Test C and .5mg Adex twice weekly. The wife probably wouldn’t mind a bit less T, my libido is a bit out of control. It’s a bit much for her after being non-existent for so long. Even though my libido is sky high, my performance has dropped off a bit. Erections aren’t as strong and harder to keep. Any thoughts on cutting my dose?
I’ve also been taking Iodoral for a couple weeks. Body temps are up almost a full degree. I now start at 98.1 and get up to 98.6-98.8 during the day. Pretty amazing how quickly it started working. The wife’s temps are lower than mine were, so I have her taking it now too.
Any thoughts on ED with these lab values? Libido is great, but performance is really getting frustrating. Never had issues in the past, even feeling terrible and shitty labs. E2 is a little low, but not in the toilet.
Since these last labs I’ve switched to the following:
60mg T twice Weekly (100mg before). SubQ now.
.5mg Adex with T injections (1mg before)
250IU HCG day before T injections (250IU EOD before)
No change in ED. Feel great otherwise. Life changing considering where I was a few months ago. Other supplements:
Morning - Multi V, Vit D, Bioactive B complex, EPA/DHA, 50mg DHEA. Added recently Iodoral, 50mg Preg.
Night - Multi V, Vit D, EPA/DHA, 750mcg Melatonin, Calmplex (l-theanine, 5HTP, Gaba), Preg cream, Magnesium oil.
Probiotics with breakfast. Digestive enzymes with pretty much every meal.
More testing to come with the new protocol, but thought I would see if anyone had any thoughts.
How are body temperatures responding to Iodoral?
What dose and for how long?
You needed to reduce anastrozole dose by factor of 14.5/22
With the 20% increase in T, you need to increase anastrozole by that amount.
These can be combined. Adjust dose by 1.2*(14.5/22)=0.8
You were taking 2mg/week anastrozole which is high. So we have to consider that your testes are hyper reacting to hCG and creating large amounts of T–>E2 inside the testes where anastrozole is ineffective. How did introduction of hCG change E2? There might be an implication to reduce hCG then you might need less anastrozole.
Libido is really an indication of a good state of well-being. Many things can affect that, including neural transmitters, drugs, lack of sleep, other pathologies etc.
[quote]KSman wrote:
How are body temperatures responding to Iodoral?
What dose and for how long?
[/quote]
They get to 98.6 every day. Start around 98.1. 12.5mg/day for a few weeks now. Should I start cutting back if temps are good? I used iodized salt and have some in my multi.
2mg per week dropped E2 from 80 to 15 at 200mg/week T. I’m now doing 120mg T and 1mg Adex. I’ll order lab work to see where that puts me.
Not sure how HCG effected E2. I started a few weeks after starting T. My nuts were shrinking and drawing up very tight. I am now doing 250IU twice a week instead of EOD.
[quote]
Libido is really an indication of a good state of well-being. Many things can affect that, including neural transmitters, drugs, lack of sleep, other pathologies etc.[/quote]
Yep. Libido is great and I feel really good overall. Just having trouble staying hard for more than a couple minutes. Never had this problem before, even when libido and overall state was shit. I was thinking about re-doing neural transmitter testing at some point. Probably wait until hormone intake is stable.
New BW. 48hrs after last T injection and right before HCG injection. Protocol is:
T - 60mg x 2 SQ. Was 100mg x 2 IM.
HCG - 250IU x 2
Adex .5mg x 2
DHEA - 50mg ED (misorderd normally get 25mg)
Preg - 50mg ED - cheap non-micronized. Have LEF on hand. Going to see if it makes a diff.
Prog - KAL cream. Not sure how much but looks good.
Results
Total T - 508 ng/dl (348-427) Was 1200. Cut current dose to 60%.
Free T - 23.6 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)
E2 - 36.7 pg/ml (7.6-42.6) Was 15 at double the dose.
DHT - 43 ng/dl (30-85)
Progesterone - 1.3 ng/dl (.2-1.4)
Pregnenolone - 65 ng/dl (<151)
Reducing T dose from 200mg to 120mg and from IM to SQ really dropped me. I noticed. I was having issues with ED before but still had good libido. Now zero libido, no engery, bad mood, lifts dropping. Feeling burnt out again, a lot like when I had adrenal issues. Even the wife has commented on my grumpiness.
I like SQ much better than IM, but I think I’m going to switch back or bump the dose. Seems like 60mg is a lot for SQ. Anyone doing more than that SQ? Sticking with 60mg IM or doing 100mg SQ would be a good comparison. I’ve read that some guys don’t get very good results SQ. I do carry some extra inches around my midsection, so maybe circulation isn’t great where I’m injecting?
I threw out the 50mg DHEA I had and ordered some 25mg. Overshooting DHEA could be jacking up E2. Going to aim for 400 or so and see where that puts E2.
Going to swap my cheap Preg for LEF to see if that makes a difference. Will switch back to transdermal after that. Just a little experiment.
Might try using just a bit less Progesterone. I thought I read somewhere that it might lower DHT, which could be a bit higher.
Now that your T is SC and twice a week, lab results are very truthful and the TT=1200 may have been peak detection.
You can now scale up the dose and expect a linear response in TT. If you want TT=1000, factor dose by 1000/508.
You may be a high metabolizer of T.
FT is decent, but libido is not there. E2 is an obvious problem. Does not make sense unless you are freely converting DHEA–>E2 in the adrenals. We sometimes see this, but this is not now most react. Mechanism not understood.
When I changed from E2=37–>22 I turned into a porn star from a grumpy old guy and T doses and levels were constant.
Thanks KSman. This little experiment was really a step in wrong direction. The change in mood, energy and libido are obvious to me and the wife. I’m bumping Adex to .7mg x 2, and T to 80mg x 2. I’m dropping DHEA back down to 25mg (bought some with 100mg 7-keto) and bumping pregnenolone to 100mg. I’ve added DIM back in to help metabolize E. If E2 is still high, I suppose I could reduce HCG a bit to see if that’s the culprit.
I don’t know that I’m shooting for a particular T number, but I know I felt much better with higher T and lower E. I’d like to E2 in the 20s and play with T doses a bit. I’d like to take as little as possible while still feeling good. I do think I’m metabolizing it a bit faster than normal. At 100mg twice a week, I’ve had readings in the 700s, 800s and then the one 1200.
The ED issue even at the better levels has me a bit puzzled. I ordered some liquid tadalafil and will start that at 5mg every 12hrs. Sounds like low dose use has general health benefits and hopefully takes care of the random ED issues.
I have another related (I think) issue that’s really starting to become a problem. About the time I really started to have issues with adrenal insufficiency, I would get blurred vision out of nowhere. It started happening occasionally in afternoon after a full day of work. It gradually started happening earlier and more frequently. Eventually it was pretty much all day every day.
It seemed to get a bit better when I started treating adrenal issues and then going on TRT, although I didn’t tract it like I should have. Just going by memory.
I’m now a few months into TRT and it’s starting to get really bad again. It kind of crept up on me, but now my vision is very blurry most days. It’s starting to be a real challenge to read a computer screen, which is what I do all day at work.
Not sure if it’s related to adrenal issues, my supposed Hashimoto’s or maybe a growth on my pituitary which could explain my issues with T, adrenals and thyroid. I’ve found blurred vision as a not so common symptom of all these things.
Anyone else experienced blurred vision associated with adrenal issues, hahsimoto’s or pituitiary growths?
Vision was fine until my health really started taking a turn. Vision is blurred at all distances when it acting up. Reading text on a computer screen has been really tough the last couple of days.
If you relax your eyes and make them go blurry, that’s what’s happening. It’s really driving me nuts. Set a meeting with an optometrist, but thinking that’s going to get me nowhere. Really think it’s related to my health issues in some way.
Tadalafil worked great in short order. Doing 6mg ED. ED works much better for me. Easier to keep track of. Seems to have other health benefits as well, which is always nice.
Can’t say libido has come back though. Bumped back up to 80mg of T twice weekly, sticking with subQ for now. Trying a more constant adex doee at .3mg on injection days and .2 on non-injection days. HCG is still 250IU twice weekly.
I know E2 is still an issue. I still feel like my wife when she’s on the rag. Really grumpy with uncharacteristic moments of emotion for no reason, on top of zero libido. I’m going to stick with this dosing for another week and retest E2. This is proving hard for me to dial in. 2mg a week was too much. 1mg a week was too little. So far 1.6mg per week feels like it’s too little. Might have to bump to 1.8mg per week. This seems high to me, but maybe I can take it back down when I lose some weight. it’s been coming off slowly but surely since starting TRT.
