Seriously, Lixy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

It’s pointless.

Lixy goes round after round with people who shred his arguments, offering questions that he never answers - but then, after a while has passed, he makes statements (since refuted) in conclusory fashion, all with the amnesia of having his ideas taken apart.

For example:

  1. Iraq war under false pretenses. Even though he has been pummeled over and over again with bipartisan resolutions and the National Intelligence Estimate and UN Resolutions affirming a belief in Saddam’s WMD capabilities, Lixy fizzles out only to raise the same (refuted) arguments later.

  2. US as the cause of nearly all the misery in the world. This, despite the fact that all the sins he whines about - intolerance, illiberalism, imperialistic designs - are all done twentyfold by the societies for which he apologizes.

  3. US actions as cause of Islamism. This, despite the fact that Lixy can’t answer why the US (and Bush)…

a. Causes Muslims in Africa to slaughter African Christians and animists

b. Causes Muslim societies to hang homosexuals

c. Causes Muslims to become homicidal over political cartoons regarding their faith

d. Causes Islamists to slit the throat of authors who are critical and express themselves through dissent

e. Cause women to live under apartheid conditions (this, despite the whining over Palestinians being the victims of apartheid)

f. Cause furor at the US, despite the fact that the US has spent more blood and treasure helping Muslims in the world (see the Balkans) than the Arab League ever has

g. Cause other Arab nations to actually reject Palestinian refugees and otherwise treat them as second-class scum when they do allow them into the country

h. Cause Muslims to be poor and uneducated, despite the fact that the highest quest for knowledge in a Muslim “university” is whether a woman should be able to wear fingernail polish

i. Cause Islamists to discuss all kinds of goals of conquest, ones completely irrelevant to the US, globalization, or a Palestinian state (see reconquest of Spanish Andelusia)

Lixy tucks tail and runs when the tough questions come out, and then resurfaces later, only to re-assert these dubious claims as conclusory “truths”, as if he never got pinned down on them in the past.

It has become a tragic joke.

22

Leave lixy alone.

He does not know what he wants to be when he grows up.

23

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
It’s pointless.

Lixy goes round after round with people who shred his arguments, offering questions that he never answers - but then, after a while has passed, he makes statements (since refuted) in conclusory fashion, all with the amnesia of having his ideas taken apart.

For example:

  1. Iraq war under false pretenses. Even though he has been pummeled over and over again with bipartisan resolutions and the National Intelligence Estimate and UN Resolutions affirming a belief in Saddam’s WMD capabilities, Lixy fizzles out only to raise the same (refuted) arguments later.

  2. US as the cause of nearly all the misery in the world. This, despite the fact that all the sins he whines about - intolerance, illiberalism, imperialistic designs - are all done twentyfold by the societies for which he apologizes.

  3. US actions as cause of Islamism. This, despite the fact that Lixy can’t answer why the US (and Bush)…

a. Causes Muslims in Africa to slaughter African Christians and animists

b. Causes Muslim societies to hang homosexuals

c. Causes Muslims to become homicidal over political cartoons regarding their faith

d. Causes Islamists to slit the throat of authors who are critical and express themselves through dissent

e. Cause women to live under apartheid conditions (this, despite the whining over Palestinians being the victims of apartheid)

f. Cause furor at the US, despite the fact that the US has spent more blood and treasure helping Muslims in the world (see the Balkans) than the Arab League ever has

g. Cause other Arab nations to actually reject Palestinian refugees and otherwise treat them as second-class scum when they do allow them into the country

h. Cause Muslims to be poor and uneducated, despite the fact that the highest quest for knowledge in a Muslim “university” is whether a woman should be able to wear fingernail polish

i. Cause Islamists to discuss all kinds of goals of conquest, ones completely irrelevant to the US, globalization, or a Palestinian state (see reconquest of Spanish Andelusia)

Lixy tucks tail and runs when the tough questions come out, and then resurfaces later, only to re-assert these dubious claims as conclusory “truths”, as if he never got pinned down on them in the past.

It has become a tragic joke. [/quote]

You, sir, are a genius. Great post.

24

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Leave lixy alone.

He does not know what he wants to be when he grows up.[/quote]

LOL!

25

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

  1. Iraq war under false pretenses. Even though he has been pummeled over and over again with bipartisan resolutions and the National Intelligence Estimate and UN Resolutions affirming a belief in Saddam’s WMD capabilities, Lixy fizzles out only to raise the same (refuted) arguments later. [/quote]

Screw that talk. We’ve rehashed it too many times. High ranking officials (head of the CIA, military officials) assert that the decision to attack Iraq was taken on 9/11. The justifications were just tricks to get public support. So, as far as I am concerned, it was under false pretenses. This is not the first time a casus belli is elaborated in order to start a war and the world knows it only too well.

People have died for no reason because Saddam was no threat to anyone, least of who is the United States. Yet, instead of sitting down and talking with the Iraqis you rushed into war like it was some kind of bus to catch.

The US is not the cause of all the misery in the world. But it sure has waged its share of wars that devastated whole countries. For that alone, it takes a lot of blame.

Neo-colonialism is alive and well. And while Friedman sells you fairy tales about everybody getting benefiting, the reality is totally different. People are hit very hard by globalization in the third world. But that has nothing to do with the US.

I see you learned about subsets. You’re growing before our very eyes! (Credits to Crabman)

Us actions didn’t create militant Islam. Matter of fact, it predates the era where the US military adventured its nose outside the American continent. I’ll skip the history lesson and go right to facts:

  • The most dangerous and influential Islamist organization stems from the US-backed Mujahideens of Afghanistan.

  • The Iraqi and Syrian regimes, both secular were possibly your best choices as far as the war on terror was concerned. You chose to demonize them and went as far as military confrontation. That, at a time where the Pakistanis and Saudis were harboring and financing terrorists under your nose.

  • I never condoned hanging of queers, mistreatment of women or anything of the sort. The US has NOTHING to do with it, and you brought it up in a desperate attempt to divert from the main topic. I must have said it a thousand times now: All regimes in the Arab world are corrupt dictatorships! I don’t see why you’d think that I’d support what they do. I merely point out that force should be the LAST resort and, unless faced with an immediate threat, one should always try to solve disagreements some other way.

Clear enough?

26

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
It’s pointless.

Lixy goes round after round with people who shred his arguments, offering questions that he never answers - but then, after a while has passed, he makes statements (since refuted) in conclusory fashion, all with the amnesia of having his ideas taken apart.

For example:

  1. Iraq war under false pretenses. Even though he has been pummeled over and over again with bipartisan resolutions and the National Intelligence Estimate and UN Resolutions affirming a belief in Saddam’s WMD capabilities, Lixy fizzles out only to raise the same (refuted) arguments later.

  2. US as the cause of nearly all the misery in the world. This, despite the fact that all the sins he whines about - intolerance, illiberalism, imperialistic designs - are all done twentyfold by the societies for which he apologizes.

  3. US actions as cause of Islamism. This, despite the fact that Lixy can’t answer why the US (and Bush)…

a. Causes Muslims in Africa to slaughter African Christians and animists

b. Causes Muslim societies to hang homosexuals

c. Causes Muslims to become homicidal over political cartoons regarding their faith

d. Causes Islamists to slit the throat of authors who are critical and express themselves through dissent

e. Cause women to live under apartheid conditions (this, despite the whining over Palestinians being the victims of apartheid)

f. Cause furor at the US, despite the fact that the US has spent more blood and treasure helping Muslims in the world (see the Balkans) than the Arab League ever has

g. Cause other Arab nations to actually reject Palestinian refugees and otherwise treat them as second-class scum when they do allow them into the country

h. Cause Muslims to be poor and uneducated, despite the fact that the highest quest for knowledge in a Muslim “university” is whether a woman should be able to wear fingernail polish

i. Cause Islamists to discuss all kinds of goals of conquest, ones completely irrelevant to the US, globalization, or a Palestinian state (see reconquest of Spanish Andelusia)

Lixy tucks tail and runs when the tough questions come out, and then resurfaces later, only to re-assert these dubious claims as conclusory “truths”, as if he never got pinned down on them in the past.

It has become a tragic joke. [/quote]

Damn good post.

27

[quote]lixy wrote:

  • The most dangerous and influential Islamist organization stems from the US-backed Mujahideens of Afghanistan.

[/quote]
Who? And if you meant AL Qaeda, could you please share hard proof of this. Not “source said,” or some such thing. I’ve seen this claim refuted a couple of times, and wonder if you have new evidence I’ve not seen. Assuming you’re speaking of Al Qaeda, that is.

28

[quote]John S. wrote:
Lixy how many Americans do you see strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up little kids and elderly? not a lot right? now lets take a look at your friends in Iraq. A lot of retards willing to blow themselves up.[/quote]

A better question is why they do this?

Answer: In alot of cases it is there only form of retribution. They do not have the massive military power of the U.S. and could never compete in a conventional military conflict. Who could?

It in most cases is a desperate measure of self-defense and a form of protestation!

How many innocents have been killed by the U.S. the last 100 years by bomds, guns and the overwhelming military machinery.

Terrorism comes in many forms. It is not the exclusive domain of guerilla style actions and suicide bombers.

29

Blowing your ass up is never acceptable, WHEN YOU BLOW UP LITTLE CHILDREN YOUR NOT ACTING IN DEFENCE. Get your head out of your ass. America has helped many people around the world. These guys are monsters.

Your hero’s hide behind children and shoot. After all this the US military is still destroying these people. Long live the USA and FUCK Terrorists

30

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Lixy,

If we (the USA) were evil, like you have said we are, would Karbala, Tehran, Falujah, Mecca, and so on still exist? If we were like Nazis, do you know what would have happened to the Muslim population via reprisals?

It doesn’t happen. Why not? Check your premises.

Remember all the Iraqis with blue fingers? They did a thing called VOTING? Some of the candidates were extremist whack jobs — they got few votes. Why?

The Middle Eastern countries cannot even wipe out tiny Israel. If we were evil, what do you think would happen if we unleashed our power on these countries? They still exist. Why?

Terrorists are often called Muslim extremists. What does that mean? Does it mean that they take Islam to its extremes? As a system, is this a religion of death? Who worships death more, the country that builds schools and hospitals, bridges and power plants, or a system that unleashes animals to wear suicide bombs into crowds of old ladies and children?

Now I think you can fathom what America is all about. We love life. We are joyful. We hope others will join us in this approach to living. You stand with those who oppose this worldview when you denounce us. Is this what you SERIOUSLY want to do?[/quote]

I have not read all of Lixy’s posts on here but I would hedge my bets by saying that Lixy doesn’t believe that the majority of U.S. citizens are evil.

He most likey is speaking of the actions taken by our government. They are truly evil and vile. Most Americans are kept in the dark by a complict press who are often owned by larger corporations who also own military production factories. They have a vested interest in giving you a filtered version of the news.

You cannot use the corporate media in hopes of finding the truth. You must circumvent this by going to non-corporate news sources and foreign press. Try this and you will see a world you never knew existed. You will truly see an alternative and a real dissenting point of view. Not the bullshit that passes for debate amonst dems and reps.

31

[quote]lixy wrote:

Screw that talk. We’ve rehashed it too many times. High ranking officials (head of the CIA, military officials) assert that the decision to attack Iraq was taken on 9/11. The justifications were just tricks to get public support. So, as far as I am concerned, it was under false pretenses. [/quote]

Poor Lixy - even when important facts stare his in the face, he has to obfuscate.

Your theory taken at face value - the decision to attack Iraq on 9-11, if it occurred, was not done under “false pretenses” - it was done in the context of what happened on 9-11. Then, of course, it doesn’t matter what was decided on 9-11 - Bush went and got a biaprtisan Congressional resolution based on the same intelligence he had.

The decision went through the ordinary civic audit - so even if you are right regarding when the decision was made (and you aren’t), there is no basis for peddling the argument the war was started under false pretenses. The intelligence was there, and Congress - both Democrats and Republicans - agreed.

So again, despite important facts that refute your theory, you just pretend they aren’t there.

Saddam had the choice to leave and go into exile. Further, Saddam was a threat all right - 15 out of 16 members of the UN Security Council said he was (Syria abstaining).

You say he wasn’t a threat. The UNSC said he was. Hmmm.

Tell me about it - Islamic nations are looking to reclaim old land and find their way into new ones.

Yes, Lixy, everyone can see that you have the credibility to act arrogant regarding your intelligence level compared to mine. Well done.

Your claimed level of support is overblown, and you know that, it has been covered - and whatever level of support was designed to beat back an advancing totalitarian monster.

Nonsense - trusting “secular” regimes to deliver up Islamists is perhaps the most naive foreign policy you could think of. Both regimes assist terror elements against Israel - how far of a stretch would it be to help those terrorist elements who wanted to mess with the US?

The long-term goal of securing the West from the barbarians requires the isolation and demonization of Iranian and Syrian regimes - not making nice with them.

Nope, and again you try and deflect - there is a huge laundry list of problems with the part of the world you apologize for. The misery there is self-inflicted - that is the main topic. The list of homegrown backwardsism continues to mount - isn’t it easier to apply common sense and start placing the blame where it belongs: directly on the barbarian societies themselves?

And “queers”? Nice.

And that is what Muslim societies have always allowed - nowhere is there an impretus for a liberal consensual government, unless you import the ideas of the West. But doing so would mean colonialism - so what are you gonna do?

And note what you said earlier - all regimes in the Arab world are corrupt dictatorships (including in there Iran and Syria). And yet you suggested above the US should have worked with them?

Make up your mind, Lixy. Should the US stand firmly against all these corrupt dictatorships - seemingly the left-wing thing to do - or should the US deal with the devil to get at some Islamist terror groups - your suggestion?

Not really, and one another thing:

You still have yet to explain how Bush is an “idiot” on one page of a thread, but how he is an “evil genius” type on the very next page.

Can Lixy the Obfuscator ever square that circle?

32

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Try this and you will see a world you never knew existed. [/quote]

And still doesn’t.

33

[quote]JeffR wrote:
To my dem friends (bradley, tme, beowolf):

Does it ever give you pause when guys like lixy name you as allies?

If I were you, I’d be checking my premises.

JeffR[/quote]

He’s said some radical stuff, but you guys really don’t get the core of his message.

He doesn’t think we’re MORE evil than terrorists and dictators, he just thinks we’re blind to the evil we do. We like to pretend America is the good guy, always looking out for the little guy. When, in reality, we are most definetly not.

While I don’t agree with everything he’s said, and I think some of his arguments about Israel and Palestine are absolutely ridiculous, he still does a decent job of pointing out when we’ve done wrong and all of our hypocrisies.

Question reflected back to you, my conservative friends (JeffR, TB, Zap) does it ever give you pause when guys like HH name you as allies?

HH has literally condemned the entire religion of Islam as being evil, and has requested that we bomb the hell out of them and kill them all, while trying to say he supports there freedom and democracy in the Middle East. Thats hypocritical. Very, very hypocritical.

While I can honestly say I’ve learned and agreed with at times the three of you (JeffR, Zap and TB), I cannot say the same for HH. 90% of everything he says has no substantial backing. He makes little to no truly admissible argument (everything he says has fallacies). He’s a closed minded hack.

So, same question back to you… and no, the “He’s still better than Lixy” is not a real answer :wink:

34

[quote]John S. wrote:
Blowing your ass up is never acceptable, WHEN YOU BLOW UP LITTLE CHILDREN YOUR NOT ACTING IN DEFENCE. [/quote]

What I don’t understand is how you can be tricked into thinking the bombs you dropped on Baghdad (or the ones you gave to Israel to drop on Beirut) differentiated between the little children and the rest of the population?

35

We drop bombs when there is a huge collection of TERRORISTS, Your friends blow there retarded asses up to kill 1 or 2 soldiers and 20-30 kids.(And war is not pretty, when you play by rules of war which means no blowing your ass up innocent deaths are minimal). If you see it as the same you are fucking retarded

36

[quote]John S. wrote:
We drop bombs when there is a huge collection of TERRORISTS, Your friends blow there retarded asses up to kill 1 or 2 soldiers and 20-30 kids.(And war is not pretty, when you play by rules of war which means no blowing your ass up innocent deaths are minimal). If you see it as the same you are fucking retarded[/quote]

Tsk. tsk. tsk.

I doubt that your soldier to civilian rate is better.

The air raids on Somalia are a good example.

And I still do not get why you think that anyone around the world gives a shit if you meant well after a bomb has wiped out his family, let alone that what you call a terrorist another man might call a freedom fighter or martyr.

And Lixy has one point:

If they had carriers and planes and bombs they would not use suicide bombers.

Would you feel better if they had enough money to nuke you?

Would that be more honorable?

As honorable as US bombs? You know, them being dropped from 30000 feet at no risk for the pilot whatsoever…

When it comes to the mindless adoration for the US military, the US flag or the US anthem and the paradigm that US lives are just worth more than the average human being, Lixy is spot on.

37

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
JeffR wrote:
To my dem friends (bradley, tme, beowolf):

Does it ever give you pause when guys like lixy name you as allies?

If I were you, I’d be checking my premises.

JeffR

He’s said some radical stuff, but you guys really don’t get the core of his message.

He doesn’t think we’re MORE evil than terrorists and dictators, he just thinks we’re blind to the evil we do. We like to pretend America is the good guy, always looking out for the little guy. When, in reality, we are most definetly not.

While I don’t agree with everything he’s said, and I think some of his arguments about Israel and Palestine are absolutely ridiculous, he still does a decent job of pointing out when we’ve done wrong and all of our hypocrisies.

Question reflected back to you, my conservative friends (JeffR, TB, Zap) does it ever give you pause when guys like HH name you as allies?

HH has literally condemned the entire religion of Islam as being evil, and has requested that we bomb the hell out of them and kill them all, while trying to say he supports there freedom and democracy in the Middle East. Thats hypocritical. Very, very hypocritical.

While I can honestly say I’ve learned and agreed with at times the three of you (JeffR, Zap and TB), I cannot say the same for HH. 90% of everything he says has no substantial backing. He makes little to no truly admissible argument (everything he says has fallacies). He’s a closed minded hack.

So, same question back to you… and no, the “He’s still better than Lixy” is not a real answer ;)[/quote]

Beowolf,

I appreciate your post. Again, you are one of the few lefties who I listen to.

When you are in error, you admit it. When you’ve made a comment you regret, you man-up.

As far as Headhunter, I think he’s guilty of going over the top at times. However, so am I. So it’s hard for me to condemn him too harshly.

I have to admit I haven’t read every word he’s written. Did he really condemn all of Islam? I find that hard to believe. However, if you produce the posts, I’ll be happy to read them.

As far as lixy goes, he’s got his agenda. It’s to divide us. Don’t lose sight of that. I’d be willing to bet his goals aren’t yours.

I’ve said this many times, America is like a family (including dems). While I may want to smack you around sometimes, you are still family. However, when other family members start ripping on you, my loyalty is to you first.

Does that loyalty have limits? Yes. However, I always bristle when twirps who are on the sideline start ripping on America. That includes ripping on billy boy clinton and the mess that is the leadership of the democratic party.

You may not believe that, however, I’ve done it in person.

Now, I think you’d be hard pressed to find an American with a reasonable IQ who thinks “we are all good.” I’ll bet, if you asked, you’d find many of us on the Right agree with you.

However, on average, it seems many of us are more solutions oriented. It isn’t enough to say, “Bush’s reconstruction plan failed.” From that it’s become, “Let’s run away.” Many of us want it fixed. Learned from.

It seems (and this is not every dem) that blame and political grandstanding is more important than national objectives.

If you’d like some examples I’d be happy to produce them.

The recent trip of nancy pelosi comes to mind. It was an absolute DISASTER. NOTHING good and one hell of a lot of bad came from that trip.

Not only was it Constitutionally very questionable, it brought joy to our enemies.

Divide and conquer.

Believe me, lixy understands this.

I’ll say again, it should make you SHUDDER when lixy names you directly as an ally.

One more point, if you think that the democrats cannot go too far, I think you are wrong.

The democrats are acting as though they’ve been annointed.

If you put 2006 in historical perspective, you’ll find it pretty underwhelming.

I do give credit to the dems for fending off the coup de grace. However, I think they are in imminent danger of overplaying their hand badly.

This discussion of cutting off troop funding is WAY BEYOND the pale.

JeffR

38

[quote]orion wrote:
John S. wrote:
We drop bombs when there is a huge collection of TERRORISTS, Your friends blow there retarded asses up to kill 1 or 2 soldiers and 20-30 kids.(And war is not pretty, when you play by rules of war which means no blowing your ass up innocent deaths are minimal). If you see it as the same you are fucking retarded

Tsk. tsk. tsk.

I doubt that your soldier to civilian rate is better.

The air raids on Somalia are a good example.

And I still do not get why you think that anyone around the world gives a shit if you meant well after a bomb has wiped out his family, let alone that what you call a terrorist another man might call a freedom fighter or martyr.

And Lixy has one point:

If they had carriers and planes and bombs they would not use suicide bombers.

Would you feel better if they had enough money to nuke you?

Would that be more honorable?

As honorable as US bombs? You know, them being dropped from 30000 feet at no risk for the pilot whatsoever…

When it comes to the mindless adoration for the US military, the US flag or the US anthem and the paradigm that US lives are just worth more than the average human being, Lixy is spot on.

[/quote]

Hey orion,

Produce one quote from any poster saying American lives are more valuable that Iraqi civilians and I’ll buy you a new bicycle.

When you fail in this quest, please drop that from your bilious rhetoric.

Deal?

Thanks in advance.

JeffR

39

[quote]orion wrote:
John S. wrote:
We drop bombs when there is a huge collection of TERRORISTS, Your friends blow there retarded asses up to kill 1 or 2 soldiers and 20-30 kids.(And war is not pretty, when you play by rules of war which means no blowing your ass up innocent deaths are minimal). If you see it as the same you are fucking retarded

Tsk. tsk. tsk.

I doubt that your soldier to civilian rate is better.

The air raids on Somalia are a good example.

And I still do not get why you think that anyone around the world gives a shit if you meant well after a bomb has wiped out his family, let alone that what you call a terrorist another man might call a freedom fighter or martyr.

And Lixy has one point:

If they had carriers and planes and bombs they would not use suicide bombers.

Would you feel better if they had enough money to nuke you?

Would that be more honorable?

As honorable as US bombs? You know, them being dropped from 30000 feet at no risk for the pilot whatsoever…

When it comes to the mindless adoration for the US military, the US flag or the US anthem and the paradigm that US lives are just worth more than the average human being, Lixy is spot on.

[/quote]

Listen you Moron, We do not blow are asses up to get them, These guys are killing there own country men. IS THAT TO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND? ARE YOU THAT FUCKING STUPID TO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERANCE? IF WE WHERE BLOWING THE SHIT OUT OF ARE OWN SOLDIERS ON A DAILY BASIS(OH AND DON’T USE THE FEW FRIENDLY FIRE THESE ARE RARE AND DON’T HAPPEN ON A DAILY BASIS).

you sir need to learn when to shut the fuck up.

40

He’s right.

In Iraq, we did not set out to attack civillians, we bombed military targets, took out their capability to make war. If we just carpet bombed baghdad, then I’d see your comparison to terrorists.

The terrorists use suicide and car bombers to attack CIVILLIANS. They set off suicide and car bombs in heavily populated markets or mosques to try to kill as many as possible.

Look at the London bombings, how many military targets were hit in that attack,

or the Bali bombings, or the hotel in Africa?

I hope you can see a diference here.