Or maybe they are out arresting murderers, rapists, sex offenders, and other criminals.
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
Prof X you must be a huge fan of Chubby Checker because you are the master of the twist. I clearly articulated in my post that the assertion many people made that because possibly up to 1.8% of LEO’s abuse the power they have then all LEO’s therefore are guilty of the same is ridiculous. I will say it once again since you don’t seem to understand…I don’t condone and find it reprehensible any abuse of power by any LEO, but 1.8% of bad apples does not spoil the bunch. If you have studies that show the incidence of abuse is higher then by all means present it.[/quote]
So, what do you do when you make a bust?
Lets say 5 people are standing around and one in particular is selling crack. You have observed the behavior and concluded that there are 2 spotters, 1 dealer, and a couple of others just chilling out and shooting the shit.
You make the bust, taking down all five, charging one with possession and any other relevant charges, and the rest with disorderly conduct, conspiracy, and what ever other shit you think will stick, right?
It goes both ways, man.
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
Prof X you must be a huge fan of Chubby Checker because you are the master of the twist. I clearly articulated in my post that the assertion many people made that because possibly up to 1.8% of LEO’s abuse the power they have then all LEO’s therefore are guilty of the same is ridiculous. I will say it once again since you don’t seem to understand…I don’t condone and find it reprehensible any abuse of power by any LEO, but 1.8% of bad apples does not spoil the bunch. If you have studies that show the incidence of abuse is higher then by all means present it.[/quote]
1,8% of bad apples will spoil any amount of apples if you do not remove them.
True story.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
Prof X you must be a huge fan of Chubby Checker because you are the master of the twist. I clearly articulated in my post that the assertion many people made that because possibly up to 1.8% of LEO’s abuse the power they have then all LEO’s therefore are guilty of the same is ridiculous. I will say it once again since you don’t seem to understand…I don’t condone and find it reprehensible any abuse of power by any LEO, but 1.8% of bad apples does not spoil the bunch. If you have studies that show the incidence of abuse is higher then by all means present it.[/quote]
1,8% of bad apples will spoil any amount of apples if you do not remove them.
True story. [/quote]
1.8% includes alleged misconduct, by the way.
I live in IA where blacks make up 2.9% of the population. I myself have been robbed at gunpoint by 2 black males, my girlfriend was attacked with a knife by a black guy(in MO), and when I watch the news it’s honestly dang near 75% blacks committing the serious crimes. Last time I took my kids shopping we arrived at a Wal-Mart where 3 black women were getting arrested. Why is this honestly? Oh yeah, I have friends that are black so please don’t call me a racist.
PS I hate white trash, I hate black trash, I hate “x” color trash but it honestly seems like blacks have more trash. Sure seems like a small % of people committing a large % of crimes.
Please explain this, please.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
Prof X you must be a huge fan of Chubby Checker because you are the master of the twist. I clearly articulated in my post that the assertion many people made that because possibly up to 1.8% of LEO’s abuse the power they have then all LEO’s therefore are guilty of the same is ridiculous. I will say it once again since you don’t seem to understand…I don’t condone and find it reprehensible any abuse of power by any LEO, but 1.8% of bad apples does not spoil the bunch. If you have studies that show the incidence of abuse is higher then by all means present it.[/quote]
1,8% of bad apples will spoil any amount of apples if you do not remove them.
True story. [/quote]
1.8% includes alleged misconduct, by the way.[/quote]
And excludes those that never filed a complaint because they are in prison now or dead.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
Yeah! Go fuck yourself because a few people who have the same job as you did something terrible! Fuck yourselves!
/sarcasm[/quote]
It happens too often. Do you live in or near a big city?
In addition, it’s a systematic problem when you have LEO audacious and arrogant enough to commit these crimes ON FUCKING VIDEO TAPE. Furthermore, it’s “institutionalized” when you have fellow LEO witness said crimes, and say or do nothing to intervene. Finally, the retort from the Department is ALWAYS the same; “they were performing as trained”.
Fuck em.[/quote]
One could argue that the news doesn’t report every time a service officer does his job correctly, or attempts to do the right thing and gets screwed or killed as a result. Not to say that I justify this at all, just countering.
Sensationalist reporting is just that, and is meant to generate responses just like yours.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
Prof X you must be a huge fan of Chubby Checker because you are the master of the twist. I clearly articulated in my post that the assertion many people made that because possibly up to 1.8% of LEO’s abuse the power they have then all LEO’s therefore are guilty of the same is ridiculous. I will say it once again since you don’t seem to understand…I don’t condone and find it reprehensible any abuse of power by any LEO, but 1.8% of bad apples does not spoil the bunch. If you have studies that show the incidence of abuse is higher then by all means present it.[/quote]
1,8% of bad apples will spoil any amount of apples if you do not remove them.
True story. [/quote]
1.8% includes alleged misconduct, by the way.[/quote]
And excludes those that never filed a complaint because they are in prison now or dead. [/quote]
Actually, I added 6000 cops to the actual number reported to account for unreported incidents. Which I think was generous considering the litigious nature of our society.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
Prof X you must be a huge fan of Chubby Checker because you are the master of the twist. I clearly articulated in my post that the assertion many people made that because possibly up to 1.8% of LEO’s abuse the power they have then all LEO’s therefore are guilty of the same is ridiculous. I will say it once again since you don’t seem to understand…I don’t condone and find it reprehensible any abuse of power by any LEO, but 1.8% of bad apples does not spoil the bunch. If you have studies that show the incidence of abuse is higher then by all means present it.[/quote]
1,8% of bad apples will spoil any amount of apples if you do not remove them.
True story. [/quote]
1.8% includes alleged misconduct, by the way.[/quote]
And excludes those that never filed a complaint because they are in prison now or dead. [/quote]
But does include those who’d make a complaint in order to complicate the case against them. Or, those who simply make a complaint as a bit of get back, even if the officer executed his duty lawfully.
Two things. First, I’m not impressed by the number. Especially in the face of hysterics. You would’ve thought there was a pitched battle going on, having read this thread. Secondly, I know the number of misconduct reports COULD never be 0.0. So, when I look at a figure like 1.8%, and then at how many folks are put away for assault, battery, murder, robbery, fraud, rape, drunk driving, child-molestation, kidnapping…1.8% is pretty damn tiny, as far as trade-offs go. Again, 0.0% isn’t happening. Ever.
Faulted logic, Sloth…considering many people wouldn’t report many instances for fear of retaliation BY the cops themselves especially in lower class neighborhoods.
From: http://leoforceoptions.com/statistics.html
[quote]Citizen complaints data must be interpreted with caution. Differences in how agencies receive, process, and record complaints can account for differences in the volume and rate of complaints across agencies. Likewise, the citizenâ??s decision whether to file a complaint may be influenced by both citizen and agency characteristics, and other factors.
The data presented in this report represent the number of officially recorded citizen complaints reported to BJS by large State and local law enforcement agencies. Administrative factors, including the overall quality of agency records as well as specific policies and procedures related to complaint processing, may vary across departments. In addition, the categories and definitions of complaint dispositions used in LEMAS may not be used by all agencies. Some agencies may record multiple dispositions, or other unique outcomes.
Force complaints represent a subset of all force events. That is, not all force events result in citizens filing formal complaints. How often do citizens actually complain? Estimates from the 2002 Police-Public Contact Survey indicated that although 75% of citizens experiencing force thought the level of force used was excessive, about 10% filed a complaint with the agency employing the officer(s). About 1% filed a complaint with a CCRB.[/quote]
Read that last sentence again…even though 75% thought they experienced excessive force, only 10% filed a complaint.
That blows your “math” out of the water.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
What makes your post really ingenuine is that you live in Japan and know that too.[/quote]
Yet again, you demonstrate your ignorance.[/quote]
Maybe they beat the shit out of people in Japan too, or you are too dumb to know the difference.
If I am ignorant of either, I plead guilty.
Question…if they know that most people (75%) don’t report excessive force due to fear or “citizen characteristics”…what good are the stats of the small number who actually report it?
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
Yeah! Go fuck yourself because a few people who have the same job as you did something terrible! Fuck yourselves!
/sarcasm[/quote]
It happens too often. Do you live in or near a big city?
In addition, it’s a systematic problem when you have LEO audacious and arrogant enough to commit these crimes ON FUCKING VIDEO TAPE. Furthermore, it’s “institutionalized” when you have fellow LEO witness said crimes, and say or do nothing to intervene. Finally, the retort from the Department is ALWAYS the same; “they were performing as trained”.
Fuck em.[/quote]
One could argue that the news doesn’t report every time a service officer does his job correctly, or attempts to do the right thing and gets screwed or killed as a result. Not to say that I justify this at all, just countering.
Sensationalist reporting is just that, and is meant to generate responses just like yours.
[/quote]
“When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all.”
-Futurama
But fuck that, these videos of police brutality don’t usually come from Fox or CNN. They come from civilians who put them on the internet and are later picked up by the mainstream media.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Faulted logic, Sloth…considering many people wouldn’t report many instances for fear of retaliation BY the cops themselves especially in lower class neighborhoods. [/quote]
Well, the 1.8% is achieved after doubling the number of cops involved in misconduct? How much more? 3X? 4X? Maybe 100X? Are we going to argue if I say doubling it is probably closer to the truth, and you say to no, it’s 20 times worse? Exchange our personal experiences with cops? What we’ve heard from others? There’d be no point to it. Completely unscientific.
I’m not impressed by what we DO know. I also know 0.0% will never happen. Most importantly, I also know none of you guys are going to investigate my robbery, take the drunk off the road who might’ve ended up killing another one of my family members, or search for months–perhaps years–for that missing child in the news. None of us will be rushing across town to drag some stranger’s violent husband off her, routinely. We’re not going to be handling a spitting, bloody, shit splattered legs, clawing, biting tranny who just got into fisticuffs with his lover…sigh, I hope he isn’t infected. Are we the first to arrive on scene with the little girl, dead on the floor with a kitchen knife up her vagina, because her insane mother tried to exercise ‘whore’ demons out of a 4 yr old?
I took a stab at this as a career, around Atlanta, before deciding my butt needed to get out and into college. It was a year of some of the darkest, vile, and disgusting behavior and filth I’d ever seen. I have no friggen clue how these folks can make out a career out of it. I couldn’t. But those who do are there when we sure as hell won’t be. So, when I see f’ the police, and then see 1.8%…knowing that 0.0% is simply impossible…the trade off is pretty darn good for the services. Be vigilant, be involved, be persistent if needed. I agree. But, the f the police stuff is silly.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Faulted logic, Sloth…considering many people wouldn’t report many instances for fear of retaliation BY the cops themselves especially in lower class neighborhoods. [/quote]
Well, the 1.8% is achieved after doubling the number of cops involved in misconduct? How much more? 3X? 4X? Maybe 100X? Are we going to argue if I say doubling it is probably closer to the truth, and you say to no, it’s 20 times worse? Exchange our personal experiences with cops? What we’ve heard from others? There’d be no point to it. Completely unscientific.
I’m not impressed by what we DO know. I also know 0.0% will never happen. Most importantly, I also know none of you guys are going to investigate my robbery, take the drunk off the road who might’ve ended up killing another one of my family members, or search for months–perhaps years–for that missing child in the news. None of us will be rushing across town to drag some stranger’s violent husband off her, routinely. We’re not going to be handling a spitting, bloody, shit splattered legs, clawing, biting tranny who just got into fisticuffs with his lover…sigh, I hope he isn’t infected. Are we the first to arrive on scene with the little girl, dead on the floor with a kitchen knife up her vagina, because her insane mother tried to exercise ‘whore’ demons out of a 4 yr old?
I took a stab at this as a career, around Atlanta, before deciding my butt needed to get out and into college. It was a year of some of the darkest, vile, and disgusting behavior and filth I’d ever seen. I have no friggen clue how these folks can make out a career out of it. I couldn’t. But those who do are there when we sure as hell won’t be. So, when I see f’ the police, and then see 1.8%…knowing that 0.0% is simply impossible…the trade off is pretty darn good for the services. Be vigilant, be involved, be persistent if needed. I agree. But, the f the police stuff is silly.[/quote]
?
I posted stats.
You can’t even argue against that. It means “doubling” your number was nowhere near enough.
People get beat on and don’t report it…BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE REPORTING IT TO THE PEOPLE WHO BEAT ON THEM.
Strange, huh?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
People get beat on and don’t report it…BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE REPORTING IT TO THE PEOPLE WHO BEAT ON THEM.
[/quote]
Hold up, people do experience excessive force and don’t report it. I didn’t need a stat to know that. Victims don’t always report crime. Then there’s unreasonable people, with whom force is lawfully used against, who’d say they were roughed up, but don’t report.
I’m not arguing that stat because there’s nothing to argue. There was no complaint. It’s percentage of people making an allegation, with nothing for me to see.