Sen. Warren and End of the Minimum Wage Debate

Zeppelin795 · April 9, 2013, 4:55pm

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Do you read contracts? They have this stuff in them called information, such as terms…

You have to sign a couple when you buy a house. [/quote]

And reading a contract does not absolve the broker from imparting pertinent information.[/quote]

Dude, you being handed the contract to read is imparting information.

wow. I think you are trolling at this point.

This is like saying “teachers don’t teach by assigning reading, only by answering the test questions for you”.

Holy shit.[/quote]

You have absolutely zero understanding the responsibilities of mortgage professionals.
[/quote]

Caveat Emptor.

[/quote]

You as well have no idea of the responsibilities of mortgage professionals. This was predatory lending form the top down!

Zeppelin795 · April 9, 2013, 4:57pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Inform them about what? How much of a loan they can afford? Do you beleive any of the fault lies with the consumer? [/quote]

Most of the fault lies with the organizations who pushed theses predatory loans. To blame the consumer is a scapegoat for these organizations. Every capitalist ought to be embarrassed by this…

pittbulll · April 9, 2013, 5:01pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Inform them about what? How much of a loan they can afford? Do you beleive any of the fault lies with the consumer? [/quote]

The Bank knows whether or not the customer can afford the loan , The consumer is responsible for their own success and not the banks

anon50325502 · April 9, 2013, 5:08pm

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Inform them about what? How much of a loan they can afford? Do you beleive any of the fault lies with the consumer? [/quote]

Most of the fault lies with the organizations who pushed theses predatory loans. To blame the consumer is a scapegoat for these organizations. Every capitalist ought to be embarrassed by this…[/quote]

Well I guess I’ll be bowing out then. I don’t agree at all.

anon50325502 · April 9, 2013, 5:13pm

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Inform them about what? How much of a loan they can afford? Do you beleive any of the fault lies with the consumer? [/quote]

The Bank knows whether or not the customer can afford the loan , The consumer is responsible for their own success and not the banks [/quote]

The bank doesn’t really though. They look at income, credit score, etc…and make an educated guess. They can only predict spending trends so much. My wife and I were offered a $500K loan lst June, we both just started laughing. Ain’t no way we could have swung that and still lived a half way decent life. The point is, the bank was willing to loan this money to us (a risk on thier part) based off our income, highish credit scores, and outstanding debts. What they couldn’t know is we eat Ribeye instead of round steak and I wasn’t about to switch so we could have a couple more rooms or higher ceilings.

pittbulll · April 9, 2013, 5:30pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Inform them about what? How much of a loan they can afford? Do you beleive any of the fault lies with the consumer? [/quote]

The Bank knows whether or not the customer can afford the loan , The consumer is responsible for their own success and not the banks [/quote]

The bank doesn’t really though. They look at income, credit score, etc…and make an educated guess. They can only predict spending trends so much. My wife and I were offered a $500K loan lst June, we both just started laughing. Ain’t no way we could have swung that and still lived a half way decent life. The point is, the bank was willing to loan this money to us (a risk on thier part) based off our income, highish credit scores, and outstanding debts. What they couldn’t know is we eat Ribeye instead of round steak and I wasn’t about to switch so we could have a couple more rooms or higher ceilings. [/quote]

You take the Income minus all liabilities and probably minus some other percentage and va la you have what some one can afford . I would also look at employment history . I don’t think it to be rocket science .

anon50325502 · April 9, 2013, 5:40pm

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Inform them about what? How much of a loan they can afford? Do you beleive any of the fault lies with the consumer? [/quote]

The Bank knows whether or not the customer can afford the loan , The consumer is responsible for their own success and not the banks [/quote]

The bank doesn’t really though. They look at income, credit score, etc…and make an educated guess. They can only predict spending trends so much. My wife and I were offered a $500K loan lst June, we both just started laughing. Ain’t no way we could have swung that and still lived a half way decent life. The point is, the bank was willing to loan this money to us (a risk on thier part) based off our income, highish credit scores, and outstanding debts. What they couldn’t know is we eat Ribeye instead of round steak and I wasn’t about to switch so we could have a couple more rooms or higher ceilings. [/quote]

You take the Income minus all liabilities and probably minus some other percentage and va la you have what some one can afford . I would also look at employment history . I don’t think it to be rocket science .
[/quote]

Pitt, your’re first statement is accurate. They take you income (gross I believe, which is stupid) and subtract KNOWN liabilities. Then you write you think they probably subtract some %, but you don’t know for sure. It makes sense they subtract some % based off a risk assessment, but we don’t know for sure. Unless a banker chimes in and lets us know. Maybe it’s readily available info online, but I’ve never heard of it.

The problem is you fail to consider all of the unknowns. I might spend $100 a week in groceries and you might spend $500. So you have $400 less in available funds to pay your mortgage. How would the bank know that? They might ask, I can’t remember, but unless you have a solid budget you are also guessing. There are hundreds of examples like this where you and I could both make say $100K a year and yet I could probably afford a $300K mortgage and you a $500K mortgage based off of life choices. These cannot be accounted for by a bank.

That is one reason why the consumer should share in the blame.

anon50325502 · April 9, 2013, 5:43pm

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

You take the Income minus all liabilities and probably minus some other percentage and va la you have what some one can afford . I would also look at employment history . I don’t think it to be rocket science .
[/quote]

One other thing is that this is contingent on the consumer being HONEST with the banker about what they spend and what they can afford.

It isn’t the banks job to tell a consumer what he/she can afford. It’s the banks job to assess the likelihood of a return of their investment + interest (profit).

pittbulll · April 9, 2013, 5:46pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Inform them about what? How much of a loan they can afford? Do you beleive any of the fault lies with the consumer? [/quote]

The Bank knows whether or not the customer can afford the loan , The consumer is responsible for their own success and not the banks [/quote]

The bank doesn’t really though. They look at income, credit score, etc…and make an educated guess. They can only predict spending trends so much. My wife and I were offered a $500K loan lst June, we both just started laughing. Ain’t no way we could have swung that and still lived a half way decent life. The point is, the bank was willing to loan this money to us (a risk on thier part) based off our income, highish credit scores, and outstanding debts. What they couldn’t know is we eat Ribeye instead of round steak and I wasn’t about to switch so we could have a couple more rooms or higher ceilings. [/quote]

You take the Income minus all liabilities and probably minus some other percentage and va la you have what some one can afford . I would also look at employment history . I don’t think it to be rocket science .
[/quote]

Pitt, your’re first statement is accurate. They take you income (gross I believe, which is stupid) and subtract KNOWN liabilities. Then you write you think they probably subtract some %, but you don’t know for sure. It makes sense they subtract some % based off a risk assessment, but we don’t know for sure. Unless a banker chimes in and lets us know. Maybe it’s readily available info online, but I’ve never heard of it.

The problem is you fail to consider all of the unknowns. I might spend $100 a week in groceries and you might spend $500. So you have $400 less in available funds to pay your mortgage. How would the bank know that? They might ask, I can’t remember, but unless you have a solid budget you are also guessing. There are hundreds of examples like this where you and I could both make say $100K a year and yet I could probably afford a $300K mortgage and you a $500K mortgage based off of life choices. These cannot be accounted for by a bank.

That is one reason why the consumer should share in the blame. [/quote]

We spend more than a hundred a week in groceries , I would bet that is factored in there some where . If I owned the bank it would be

anon50325502 · April 9, 2013, 5:49pm

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Wrong!It is their duty to inform the consumer.
[/quote]

Inform them about what? How much of a loan they can afford? Do you beleive any of the fault lies with the consumer? [/quote]

The Bank knows whether or not the customer can afford the loan , The consumer is responsible for their own success and not the banks [/quote]

The bank doesn’t really though. They look at income, credit score, etc…and make an educated guess. They can only predict spending trends so much. My wife and I were offered a $500K loan lst June, we both just started laughing. Ain’t no way we could have swung that and still lived a half way decent life. The point is, the bank was willing to loan this money to us (a risk on thier part) based off our income, highish credit scores, and outstanding debts. What they couldn’t know is we eat Ribeye instead of round steak and I wasn’t about to switch so we could have a couple more rooms or higher ceilings. [/quote]

You take the Income minus all liabilities and probably minus some other percentage and va la you have what some one can afford . I would also look at employment history . I don’t think it to be rocket science .
[/quote]

Pitt, your’re first statement is accurate. They take you income (gross I believe, which is stupid) and subtract KNOWN liabilities. Then you write you think they probably subtract some %, but you don’t know for sure. It makes sense they subtract some % based off a risk assessment, but we don’t know for sure. Unless a banker chimes in and lets us know. Maybe it’s readily available info online, but I’ve never heard of it.

The problem is you fail to consider all of the unknowns. I might spend $100 a week in groceries and you might spend $500. So you have $400 less in available funds to pay your mortgage. How would the bank know that? They might ask, I can’t remember, but unless you have a solid budget you are also guessing. There are hundreds of examples like this where you and I could both make say $100K a year and yet I could probably afford a $300K mortgage and you a $500K mortgage based off of life choices. These cannot be accounted for by a bank.

That is one reason why the consumer should share in the blame. [/quote]

We spend more than a hundred a week in groceries , I would bet that is factored in there some where . If I owned the bank it would be
[/quote]

My point is this is based off what the CONSUMER tells the bank. It’s accuracy is questionable for most consumers.

anon50325502 · April 9, 2013, 5:49pm

^It’s not like your monthly grocery bill on your credit report

pittbulll · April 9, 2013, 5:52pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

You take the Income minus all liabilities and probably minus some other percentage and va la you have what some one can afford . I would also look at employment history . I don’t think it to be rocket science .
[/quote]

One other thing is that this is contingent on the consumer being HONEST with the banker about what they spend and what they can afford.

It isn’t the banks job to tell a consumer what he/she can afford. It’s the banks job to assess the likelihood of a return of their investment + interest (profit). [/quote]

If you are in the business of loaning money you know all the LEGAL liabilities the person has by their credit score . Of course you will not know of their drug addiction, weekly visits to the local hookers , gambling problems other than they probably have had trouble paying bills in the past . I think with the credit agencies info and employment verifications it would be pretty easy to vet a customer

anon50325502 · April 9, 2013, 5:56pm

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

You take the Income minus all liabilities and probably minus some other percentage and va la you have what some one can afford . I would also look at employment history . I don’t think it to be rocket science .
[/quote]

One other thing is that this is contingent on the consumer being HONEST with the banker about what they spend and what they can afford.

It isn’t the banks job to tell a consumer what he/she can afford. It’s the banks job to assess the likelihood of a return of their investment + interest (profit). [/quote]

If you are in the business of loaning money you know all the LEGAL liabilities the person has by their credit score . Of course you will not know of their drug addiction, weekly visits to the local hookers , gambling problems other than they probably have had trouble paying bills in the past . I think with the credit agencies info and employment verifications it would be pretty easy to vet a customer
[/quote]

My point is, the bank is only getting PART of the story and is basing their decision on that part.

The consumer is responsible for the debt they take on. It is not the banks reponsibility to make sure the consumer can handle the debt.

It’s no different in other industries. Is Verizon required to make sure consumer can afford their $100 a month plan and $500 Iphone? Nope.

pittbulll · April 9, 2013, 5:58pm