[quote]anonym wrote:
IMO, your best options are: LEF, MRM and Nutricology. The first two I can personally vouch for, and I’ve heard nothing but good things about the third (except the price).
I’ve switched over to BAC Nutrition for preg and DHEA and have been capping them myself with a Vit C filler. As affordable as you can get once you move past the start up cost of the scale and capping machine. Plus, I feel they are a reputable company.
Hopefully, MODOK has some good advice for ya.[/quote]
I am going to start doing this(capping my own)for some suppliments that are not water soluable. I’m just starting to look at filler that will help with absorbtion. Have you thought about adding anything like that?
[quote]anonym wrote:
IMO, your best options are: LEF, MRM and Nutricology. The first two I can personally vouch for, and I’ve heard nothing but good things about the third (except the price).
I’ve switched over to BAC Nutrition for preg and DHEA and have been capping them myself with a Vit C filler. As affordable as you can get once you move past the start up cost of the scale and capping machine. Plus, I feel they are a reputable company.
Hopefully, MODOK has some good advice for ya.[/quote]
I am going to start doing this(capping my own)for some suppliments that are not water soluable. I’m just starting to look at filler that will help with absorbtion. Have you thought about adding anything like that?[/quote]
For which supplements in particular?
I’m currently only doing this for Preg and DHEA, using Vit C as a filler.
However, I really can’t recommend this highly enough. If you are willing to concede that you aren’t going to get 100% uniform dosing between all your caps (even if you geometrically dilute, the actual capping process is a little stone age with most machines), it’s really super easy to do once you figure out the initial math for mixing and get a few batches under your belt.
i probably dont have the answer to your situation, but i was in a similar situation to yours where i thought i had adrenal fatigue, hypothyroid, and hypogonad and did alot of reading up on it.
like you, tribulus makes a noticeable difference in my testosterone. upon some reading of dr bryan walsh’s stuff, those who respond well to the LH increases from tribulus usually have high cortisol which suppresses the pituitary from producing its own LH.
2nd video in that link. elevated cortisol suppresses pituitary function. i assume this could suppress your thyroid function as well since the pituitary isnt releasing TSH.
then i noticed your low cortisol and high DHEA-S, which i also had (go figure), and its because at one point your cortisol is so high that your body produces excess DHEA to keep up with producing cortisol. i found this info.
Normal – the body’s DHEA and cortisol production are normal. The body regenerates from life’s daily stresses. Cortisol normal, DHEA normal.
Stage 1 – The stimulation from the pituitary-hypothalamic-adrenal axis, because of stress, begins to overload the body, which cannot keep up. Cortisol levels begin to rise to counteract the stress, and the DHEA increases in order to make the needed precursors to supply it. Cortisol high, DHEA high.
Stage 2 – The body, due to high demand for cortisol, has begun to use up the supply of DHEA and cannot sustain. (Think of cortisol as an automobile and DHEA as the steel needed to make it.) Cortisol high, DHEA falling into normal range.
Stage 3 – The body continues to make cortisol to counteract stress, however, DHEA levels are becoming low. Cortisol high, DHEA below normal.
Stage 4 – The body continues to use DHEA at a high rate, but if there is little DHEA, eventually the level of cortisol drops as well. Cortisol low, DHEA low.
Stage 5 – Adaptive reserves almost used up, but the adrenals are so exhausted, they cannot make cortisol efficiently. So DHEA begins to rise again into the normal range because it isn’t being used as much. Cortisol low, DHEA normal.
Stage 6 – I’ll quote this directly from “Mastering Your Life” by Poesnecker…“Only rarely do we encounter a true Stage 6 patient. Most patients we see with DHEA levels this high and cortisol levels this low were taking supplemental DHEA at the time of their ASI test. However, in the true Stage Six patient the DHEA levels that were unused in the Stage 5 patient continue to rise until they exceed accepted normal levels. Thus, we may think of a Stage 6 as a worsening Stage Five…” So here, the adrenals still cannot make cortisol well, so the stockpiles of unused DHEA rise above normal levels. Cortisol low, DHEA high.
Stage 7 – The adrenals put out little cortisol, and the DHEA has dropped because of the reduced hormonal supply from the adrenals (it’s sort of a feedback loop). Cortisol low, DHEA low.
they recommend fixing adrenal function even before going on thyroid meds. they recommend licorice root in the morning to raise cortisol throughout the day (i personally wanna try revamp) and phosphadtidylserine or melatonin at night to lower cortisol.
sorry for the long post, or if you already knew all this, my bad, but i figured id bounce some ideas off you and see if they work.
[quote]anonym wrote:
I’m currently only doing this for Preg and DHEA, using Vit C as a filler.
However, I really can’t recommend this highly enough. If you are willing to concede that you aren’t going to get 100% uniform dosing between all your caps (even if you geometrically dilute, the actual capping process is a little stone age with most machines), it’s really super easy to do once you figure out the initial math for mixing and get a few batches under your belt.[/quote]
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
No, thanks for the info. It’s good to be reminded as my memory is pretty sucky right now.
From what I can tell a good book about all this is “Adrenal Fatigue” by James Wilson.
You said you thought you had adrenal fatigue, what ended up being your issue?[/quote]
well, i still have symptoms of adrenal fatigue, i just mask them so i can function day to day. i always start my morning with l-tyrosine and a cup of coffee. l-tyrosine pretty much keeps me functioning everyday. getting up in the morning is a bitch. and i usually sleep 9-12 hours a night. could be from the melatonin though. and without all my herbal testosterone boosters my strength in the gym plummets. and l-tyrosine in the afternoon to keep me from crashing around 4-5pm. licorice root or revamp and phosphadtidylserine are my next purchases to get all my cortisol symptoms resolved.
i read james wilson’s book and took his diet advice, started adding some carbs, im talking like only 20g worth from brown rice and oatmeal to 2 or 3 meals. gained fat real quick. and all the supplements he recommends (b complex, lots of vitamin c, b5, rhodiola) did nothing to help.
i really, really think revamp would help. its got licorice root, pregnenolone (25mg per cap), and bovine adrenal extract.
have you tried supplementing with iodine? i just got a multivitamin that has 225mcg of iodine, wondering if itll help.
EDIT: dr.wilson’s adrenal rebuilder looks pretty good too. also, my adrenal fatigue comes from abusing thermogenics and energy drinks for probably 6 years. was taking a caffeine based fat burner everyday for years (all different kinds). or 2 energy drinks with 200mg caffeine during the day and then a preworkout with 200-300mg caffeine at night.
A sleep aid that was recommended to me by KSman was “doxylamine succinate”. I haven’t tried it yet but it may worth looking into.
I’ve seen Revamp before but the reviews are pretty mixed. Can’t find a consensus, though…
I was planning on adding in all the supps Wilson mentioned but now I don’t know.
I have taken Ioderal and pound iodized sea salt. Never noticed any benefits but not to say it didn’t do anything.
I’m wondering if Tyrosine is just a quick fix or good in restoring adrenal health… Tyrosine can be converted to dopamine, and dopamine can then be converted to noradrenaline and adrenaline. Since the adrenals aren’t directly producing either hormone directly, I would assume Tyrosine would be good for a boost/maybe letting adrenals rest a bit more. I’m not sure if I’m missing something though as I’ve never noticed any energy from it. Doses?
I’m looking into all the supps, Wilson talked about but I think I want a bit more validation before I put a good amount of money into that. Sorry to hear they didn’t help. Licorice root seems pretty solid, not sure what dose I should be at though.
I PMed Modok but he still hasn’t got back to me. I’ll share any info he gives me.
[quote]anonym wrote:
I’m currently only doing this for Preg and DHEA, using Vit C as a filler.
However, I really can’t recommend this highly enough. If you are willing to concede that you aren’t going to get 100% uniform dosing between all your caps (even if you geometrically dilute, the actual capping process is a little stone age with most machines), it’s really super easy to do once you figure out the initial math for mixing and get a few batches under your belt.[/quote]
What capper do you like?[/quote]
Well, I used to have one called “The Capsule Machine” that allowed for filling 24 capsules per time.
Now, I have a Cap-M-Quick that allows 50 per batch.
The two are about 75% interchangeable, the main differences coming from a) the number of caps per batch and b) the Capsule Machine has a setup that automatically connects the halves for you after filling; the Cap-M-Quick requires one to join them individually (note that this doesn’t require much dexterity or time). Also, you still need to individually press the Capsule Machine halves together to get them to “click” into place (people who use empty capsules know what I’m talking about here).
In my mind, they’re entirely interchangeable in terms of general use. Which one you would find best depends on if you prefer to make a large batch at once or two smaller ones. Neither takes much time to use once you get the hang of it and any differences in the amount of time it takes to make X number of capsules is pretty negligible, I think.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
A sleep aid that was recommended to me by KSman was “doxylamine succinate”. I haven’t tried it yet but it may worth looking into.
I’ve seen Revamp before but the reviews are pretty mixed. Can’t find a consensus, though…
I was planning on adding in all the supps Wilson mentioned but now I don’t know.
I have taken Ioderal and pound iodized sea salt. Never noticed any benefits but not to say it didn’t do anything.
I’m wondering if Tyrosine is just a quick fix or good in restoring adrenal health… Tyrosine can be converted to dopamine, and dopamine can then be converted to noradrenaline and adrenaline. Since the adrenals aren’t directly producing either hormone directly, I would assume Tyrosine would be good for a boost/maybe letting adrenals rest a bit more. I’m not sure if I’m missing something though as I’ve never noticed any energy from it. Doses?
I’m looking into all the supps, Wilson talked about but I think I want a bit more validation before I put a good amount of money into that. Sorry to hear they didn’t help. Licorice root seems pretty solid, not sure what dose I should be at though.
I PMed Modok but he still hasn’t got back to me. I’ll share any info he gives me.[/quote]
i think the reason the revamp reviews arent great is because alot of doucebags use it thinking they can fix their adrenals and expect to get a massive workout changing buzz from a redbull again. nobody with legit adrenal fatigue has written a review. it used to be called “palo alto labs reset a.d” so you can find a bunch of good reviews on that too.
everything i read about tyrosine mentioned the exact thing you said, it just takes pressure off the adrenals so they dont have to produce the adrenaline hormones. i take 500-600mg in the morning 15 minutes before food, and another 500-600mg around 4-5pm. ive done 1g instead of 500-600mg and it was a really nice boost, but its so expensive.
Herbal Adrenal Support Formula and Adrenal Rebuilder look really, really good for helping your symptoms. the other 2 just look like a weak multivitamin with some b5 and vitamin c. i think if youre taking a basic men’s multivitamin with additional b5 and c, plus the herbal adrenal support and adrenal rebuilder, it would do alot to help. i might just buy them as well. im curious where you ended up on the adrenal fatigue test? i got 86 which is borderline mild/moderate.
keep us up to date if MODOK figures anything out. good luck man.
also i just noticed revamp uses bovine extract, and wilson uses porcine extract. reason being is if not processed correctly, bovine extract can pass on mad cow disease thats fucked.
Now, the first reason why hypothyroid women should be concerned about their adrenals is that the adrenal gland is highly dependent upon thyroid hormone. It cannot function properly if you become hypothyroid. I have a study (I?ve got to find it again) which shows that almost 100% of women with thyroid disease are deficient in DHEA. Yep, that?s right! If you?ve got thyroid disease, you are probably facing an adrenal insufficiency. This is especially true if you were hypothyroid for a long time and denied treatment (I was denied treatment for more than 5 years). Also, if you spend years on incomplete thyroid therapy (such as the synthetic thyroid hormones), you are more likely to have weak adrenals. The adrenals just can?t do their job if they?re getting only T4.
And the thyroid gland cannot do its job without the adrenals. The amazing Dr. Barry Durrant-Peatfield of Great Britain has found repeatedly that if a woman on thyroid therapy continues to exhibit symptoms, if he treats her adrenals, her symptoms go away. Without the adrenal hormones, the body cannot use the thyroid hormones. Treatment of the adrenals results in the thyroid hormone finally making it into the cells and tissues. This usually results in the patient being able to lower her thyroid medication. In addition, over time the adrenal support will help heal the damaged cell receptor sites so that thyroid hormone can pass into the cell to the mitochondria again. In other words, proper adrenal support means the difference between a life of good health and a life full of nagging, miserable, painful hypo symptoms.
This should make you pretty mad. Why? Because if your adrenals have become weakened by your thyroid disease and aren?t functioning well, when you are put on thyroid hormone it can cause an adrenal crisis. If the situation is very bad, it can KILL you. That?s right—death. But are the doctors testing our adrenals ahead of time? No, they are not, even though it clearly states that they must do so in the Physicians Desk Reference. Every doctor who prescribes thyroid hormone without testing the patient?s adrenals first is putting the patient?s life at risk (in other words, almost every doctor on this planet).
If a person has evidence of weak adrenal function, the adrenal gland problem must be treated first or simultaneous to the thyroid treatment. The reason for this is that hydrocortisone is necessary for the conversion of T4 to the active T3. If the weak adrenal is not addressed, the patient may actually feel worse and/or develop symptoms of an overactive thyroid gland, such as palpitations, a rapid heart beat and increased sweating. Clues to low adrenal functioning include a low blood pressure (less than 120/80), allergies, asthma, breathing difficulties, skin problems (such as acne, eczema, psoriasis, lupus, dry flaky skin), joint or muscle pains, as in arthritis, and emotional problems, such as mood swings, weeping, fears and phobias. Using low physiologic doses of hydrocortisone along with Armour Thyroid, when the patient shows evidence of both low adrenal and low thyroid function, will help to assure the desired results.
Ok, maybe Revamp is worth a shot then. I would just much rather buy in bulk/separately to save money… Same goes for Wilson’s stuff.
I just took the test and got a 94 so bias aside I am mild/moderate too.
I’ll be sure to share any info MODOK gives. PM still unread but I’m sure he’ll get back to me.
I saw something about the Bovine Extract ‘dangers’ this morning. As long as you stay away from products in countries where MCD hasn’t broken out, you should be fine although it’s hard to tell if an ‘unaffected’ company buys beef adrenals from an ‘affected’ area.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
Ok, maybe Revamp is worth a shot then. I would just much rather buy in bulk/separately to save money… Same goes for Wilson’s stuff.
I just took the test and got a 94 so bias aside I am mild/moderate too.
I’ll be sure to share any info MODOK gives. PM still unread but I’m sure he’ll get back to me.
I saw something about the Bovine Extract ‘dangers’ this morning. As long as you stay away from products in countries where MCD hasn’t broken out, you should be fine although it’s hard to tell if an ‘unaffected’ company buys beef adrenals from an ‘affected’ area.[/quote]
if you want to save some money, i found Raw Adrenal Glandular on swanson’s website for $4.99. not sure if its safe though lol. another product that is fairly cheap you might wanna look into is AOR ortho adapt. looks top notch.
Yah, my Internist actually performed the test but told me it indicative of thyroid function not adrenals. Any way yeah, I didn’t see it myself but he said my pupil dose the dilation/contraction thing.
I think I’m gonna go with the Swanson product. I actually found a bovine adrenal powder and Swanson (capped) was only like 3-5% more expensive. Still waiting to see what MODOK says to order though. Just don’t want him to tell me not to waste my time on the supp approach and waste the cash.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
Yah, my Internist actually performed the test but told me it indicative of thyroid function not adrenals. Any way yeah, I didn’t see it myself but he said my pupil dose the dilation/contraction thing.
I think I’m gonna go with the Swanson product. I actually found a bovine adrenal powder and Swanson (capped) was only like 3-5% more expensive. Still waiting to see what MODOK says to order though. Just don’t want him to tell me not to waste my time on the supp approach and waste the cash.[/quote]
any word from MODOK yet? if he doesnt think the supp route would help then the only thing ive seen to cure adrenal fatigue besides supplements, is prescription hydrocortisone. although there is also “T3 Circadian Protocol for Adrenals”.
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
any word from MODOK yet? if he doesnt think the supp route would help then the only thing ive seen to cure adrenal fatigue besides supplements, is prescription hydrocortisone. although there is also “T3 Circadian Protocol for Adrenals”.[/quote]
Nope, still no word… He mentioned he’s been pretty busy w/ his newsletter, though.
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
any word from MODOK yet? if he doesnt think the supp route would help then the only thing ive seen to cure adrenal fatigue besides supplements, is prescription hydrocortisone. although there is also “T3 Circadian Protocol for Adrenals”.[/quote]
Nope, still no word… He mentioned he’s been pretty busy w/ his newsletter, though.[/quote]
well ive been supplementing with adaptogens, licorice, and adrenal glandular since monday. since were in similar positions, ill say it does help with afternoon energy and getting to sleep at night. morning energy is still low.
EDIT: just made a cup of coffee and im buzzed off my ass. i feel like a caffeine virgin. maybe… it is… doing something.
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
well ive been supplementing with adaptogens, licorice, and adrenal glandular since monday. since were in similar positions, ill say it does help with afternoon energy and getting to sleep at night. morning energy is still low.
EDIT: just made a cup of coffee and im buzzed off my ass. i feel like a caffeine virgin. maybe… it is… doing something.[/quote]
Did you get my PM from the other day? Think they’re broken… Anyway, good to hear, what brands/doses of each?
Random Q, have you tried/responded to nootropic supps?
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
well ive been supplementing with adaptogens, licorice, and adrenal glandular since monday. since were in similar positions, ill say it does help with afternoon energy and getting to sleep at night. morning energy is still low.
EDIT: just made a cup of coffee and im buzzed off my ass. i feel like a caffeine virgin. maybe… it is… doing something.[/quote]
Did you get my PM from the other day? Think they’re broken… Anyway, good to hear, what brands/doses of each?
Random Q, have you tried/responded to nootropic supps?
[/quote]
i got your PM about tyrosine…i tried to respond but i cant respond to PMs. i use regular l-tyrosine right now, but im designing a noop based pre-workout with n-acetyl-tyrosine.
i use AOR ortho adapt.
full dose is 4 capsules. i do 1 cap with breakfast, lunch, post workout, and pre bed meal.
Adrenal Tissue (porcine) 250mg
Adrenal Cortex (Porcine) 200mg
Vitamin C 500mg
Pantethine 200mg
Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra) 800mg
Siberien Ginseng (Eleutherococcus senticosus) extract (0.8% eleutherosides) 200mg
Rhodiola (Rhodiola rosea) extract (3%rosavins, 1.6% salidroside) 150mg
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) extract (2.5% withanolides) 200mg
i do use noops once in a while. mainly neurostim and ALCAR. with noops i find i only respond to low doses. i.e. neurostim 1 cap a day is perfect. if i dose 2 caps im loopy and spacey all day and actually have decreased focus.
So the PM’s got a little screwy but essentially MODOK has recommended that I stop IF’ing and resume a more normal diet. I’ll start that tomorrow… Wish there was more useful information I could give but he said that was really the main thing that stuck out to him in my case.
thats fucked.
but I’m sure he’ll get back to me.