This shooting was done by an untrained 90 lb loser crazy fuck.
Don’t think for a second that Al Quada, Hamas, and the like haven’t studied this attack.
They are not stupid people.
The next 9/11 is going to be a 9-10 well-trained guys who come in to a school or several schools one day (or any of the other stupid “gun free” zones) and slaughter everyone.
All cops can do is file reports.
It is way past time to train civilians in schools, shopping malls, and the like to be the first line of defense, because that is where the spear is going to strike.
I am a victim of terrorism, and I ask. No, I implore you, to fucking wake up.[/quote]
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I’ve thought about this a lot over the weekend, and I’ve determined that the only thing anyone can really do about any of this is to get their CCW permit (and use it) and stay vigilant. So that’s what I did/am doing.
Horrible things can happen, so it’s best to be prepared for them if they do. It runs along the same line of thinking with what I was talking about in the thread about the kid getting mauled by the dogs at the Pittsburgh zoo; protecting my family is one of my core functions as a man, father, and husband. Carrying a firearm is only logical in that sense, and failing to do so is a failure to prepare for the worst. If the worst were ti happen and I was not prepared, I would have failed as a man, father, and husband; that is unacceptable.
It is not society’s duty to protect my family.[/quote]
I give you much respect for this post.
It bears reposting after Jewbacca’s call for America to wake up, be capable, and stay vigilant.
Really? Even knowing that people tried to charge him to stop him, you think with a pistol he would have done the same damage?[/quote]
Yes, why wouldn’t he? I’m not trying to be purposefully dense, I’m not understanding what your trying to show. That somehow getting shot 3x with a 9mm pistol is better than 3x with a .223?
Really? Even knowing that people tried to charge him to stop him, you think with a pistol he would have done the same damage?[/quote]
Yes, why wouldn’t he? I’m not trying to be purposefully dense, I’m not understanding what your trying to show. That somehow getting shot 3x with a 9mm pistol is better than 3x with a .223?
[/quote]
With the few times I’ve fired guns, I’d say rifle-esque firearms were easier for me to aim with.
But that might just be me.
Don’t get me wrong in this (or the PWI) thread, I’m not for banning guns, that’s just daft - I just don’t see why you allow people to have anything more than a pistol without vetting their household and storage capability.
Really? Even knowing that people tried to charge him to stop him, you think with a pistol he would have done the same damage?[/quote]
Yes, why wouldn’t he? I’m not trying to be purposefully dense, I’m not understanding what your trying to show. That somehow getting shot 3x with a 9mm pistol is better than 3x with a .223?
[/quote]
Trust me you don’t want to try explain velocity vs size with people not familiar with guns. I tried telling someone a 223 is the same diameter as a.22 and got the " yeah right" look
This has been a very interesting thread, its great to hear all these different opinions and I’ve certainly been won round to a more pro-gun stance than I was initially, although I still have my doubts.
One thing that I was just wondering though, is about accidental shootings. I was watching a news clip showing all these untrained middle-aged women buying guns after the Colorado shooting earlier this year and couldn’t help but think that if it ever came down to it they looked more likely to blow their own foot off than anything else. Don’t get me wrong, its great for those that successfully defend themselves, but I can’t help but think with such dangerous weapons available to such untrained people how often do people end up hurting themselves or others by accident?
I have no clue of any statistics or anything, and it probably isn’t common, its just something I was wondering.
From the web, although I can’t vouch for the veracity: The number of accidental shooting deaths in the United States has been slowly declining for many years, although there was a slight jump in the number of deaths in 2008, the last year for which we have statistics. In 2008 there were 680 accidental shooting deaths in the United States, with more than 15,500 shooting injuries.
In the past 20 years, alcohol related driving deaths ranged between 10,000-15,000/yr. These number of deaths are far greater than the number of deaths from school shootings and also often involve the deaths of children. It is illegal in every state to drive while intoxicated. Drinking alcohol is not a Constitutionally protected right. It was once Constitutionally prohibited. How many people here who favor stricter gun control laws are not hypocrites and currently support stricter alcohol restriction laws? Better yet, how many of you get behind the wheel after a few drinks?
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I’ve thought about this a lot over the weekend, and I’ve determined that the only thing anyone can really do about any of this is to get their CCW permit (and use it) and stay vigilant. So that’s what I did/am doing.
Horrible things can happen, so it’s best to be prepared for them if they do. It runs along the same line of thinking with what I was talking about in the thread about the kid getting mauled by the dogs at the Pittsburgh zoo; protecting my family is one of my core functions as a man, father, and husband. Carrying a firearm is only logical in that sense, and failing to do so is a failure to prepare for the worst. If the worst were ti happen and I was not prepared, I would have failed as a man, father, and husband; that is unacceptable.
It is not society’s duty to protect my family.[/quote]
Good post. I just realized my permit to purchase (handguns/pistols) is expiring early next year, and I plan to replace it with a CCW permit.
[quote]BeefEater wrote:
This is where we will simply have to disagree as I don’t believe that the 2nd Amendment was at all concerned with concealed carry or stand your ground laws.
[/quote]
Please see my post above where the 7th Circuit explicitly stated that the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to not only keep arms in the home, but also to bear them, in other words, carry for self-defense.
[/quote]
This would be an example of where I feel that the 2nd Amendment has been expanded based on a later judgement. This judgement appears to focus solely on what the founders meant by “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” based on an educated guess. Regardless the intent of my discussion all along has been that the way we are using the 2nd Amendment now is problematic.[/quote]
So now you disagree with judicial review. Okay. So, the Constitution should mean, whatever your hormones tell you is just right, dammit?
[quote]BeefEater wrote:
This is where we will simply have to disagree as I don’t believe that the 2nd Amendment was at all concerned with concealed carry or stand your ground laws.
[/quote]
Please see my post above where the 7th Circuit explicitly stated that the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to not only keep arms in the home, but also to bear them, in other words, carry for self-defense.
[/quote]
This would be an example of where I feel that the 2nd Amendment has been expanded based on a later judgement. This judgement appears to focus solely on what the founders meant by “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” based on an educated guess. Regardless the intent of my discussion all along has been that the way we are using the 2nd Amendment now is problematic.[/quote]
So now you disagree with judicial review. Okay. So, the Constitution should mean, whatever your hormones tell you is just right, dammit? [/quote]
Now you ARE trolling. I think that I am entitled to my opinion, if the judgement had gone another way what would your “hormones” be telling you?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Question: do you believe video games like this can have an effect on antisocial loaner types?
Yes or no ?
Yes I do think it can have an effect. I think the over abundance of simulated violence can desensitize people to heinous acts which makes taking the next step toward mass murder even easier.
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
In the past 20 years, alcohol related driving deaths ranged between 10,000-15,000/yr. These number of deaths are far greater than the number of deaths from school shootings and also often involve the deaths of children. It is illegal in every state to drive while intoxicated. Drinking alcohol is not a Constitutionally protected right. It was once Constitutionally prohibited. How many people here who favor stricter gun control laws are not hypocrites and currently support stricter alcohol restriction laws? Better yet, how many of you get behind the wheel after a few drinks?[/quote]
I don’t support stiffer alcohol restriction but am all for stiffer DUI penalties.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Question: do you believe video games like this can have an effect on antisocial loaner types?
Yes or no ?
[/quote]
Yes I do think it can have an effect. I think the over abundance of simulated violence can desensitize people to heinous acts which makes taking the next step toward mass murder even easier.[/quote]
Some people. I remember playing ‘No Russian’ when MW2 first came out and thinking about how far too far is to maintain undercover status in situations like that.
This shooting was done by an untrained 90 lb loser crazy fuck.
Don’t think for a second that Al Quada, Hamas, and the like haven’t studied this attack.
They are not stupid people.
The next 9/11 is going to be a 9-10 well-trained guys who come in to a school or several schools one day (or any of the other stupid “gun free” zones) and slaughter everyone.
All cops can do is file reports.
It is way past time to train civilians in schools, shopping malls, and the like to be the first line of defense, because that is where the spear is going to strike.
I am a victim of terrorism, and I ask. No, I implore you, to fucking wake up.[/quote]
We’re waking up. Some rather quickly. This is one county to the north of where I live.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Question: do you believe video games like this can have an effect on antisocial loaner types?
Yes or no ?
In this country (usa) we hold the fredom of speech in high regard. This includes video games and movies. This freedom will not be limited because a few crazy individuals cant handle it. These violent games and movies have an age recommendation. Would you limit this further?
Sure they have an effect. So do comics. So do some cartoons.
IMO freedom is more important than security in this instance.
Fear mongering of the highest calibre.
Let’s live in Al-Quaida proof bunkers with cameras all over the place.
And don’t forget heavily armed policemen and anti terror agencies.
It’ll be so safe!
Having a scholl shootout every x months is the horrible price of enjoying mostly liberal gun laws + modern western culture.
Something has to change here.
@general premise
Was there a kindergarten shooter before?
I think a new level of monstrosity has been reached.
Be it Columbine or Utoya, you can at least try to make sense of that particular kind of hatred.
But little children?
I’m certainly not squeamish, and I don’t have kids myself.
But just glimpsing at the victim’s photos made my stomach turn.
