School Shooting in Connecticut

Off Topic
261

[quote]NikH wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I just want you all to know that you positively can buy a semi automatic assault rifle in Austria.

And we dont have this shit.

So, back to the drawing board.

I remember a guy though who went on a rampage in a subway station.

He used a hatched.

We should probably outlaw cutlery.

[/quote]

Yeah and the population of austria is 8 000 000 while the US is like 350 000 000.
So if every ten millionth is a sick fuck with access to semiautomatic rifles and plans, in austria that would be 0.8 people while in the US 35 people.
So just population wise it’s 43,75x more likely it will happen in the US than austria, if all people are assummed similar.
[/quote]

Plus, we have like 100 murders cases a year, which, with a probability of 90%, will be solved.

Admittedly, there are possibly 2-3 murders to every one that is identified as a murder, but I doubt that this is any different in the US.

262

[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
I’m shocked by how much denial is going on here and how many people think that the availability of firearms was not a contibuting factor, the “guns don’t kill people, people do” argument.

Here in the UK we too have plenty of angry, maladjusted, disaffected young men brought up on a diet of solitude, violent computer games and non existent parenting, but the key difference is that they don’t have access to their parents’ legally obtained firearms. If they did I’m sure we would have similar occurences.

It’s sad but it seems, if the comments posted on here are a fair reflection of public opinion, that the right to bear arms is too highly valued and too ingrained in your culture to ever be surrendered, in which case these horrific episodes will continue.

And those of you getting off on discussing the particular fire power and attributes of specific guns on this thread is crass in the extreme.

[/quote]

Yeah, and you guys are home to a lovely practice called “glassing.”

Glassing is a physical attack using a glass as a weapon. Glassing can occur at bars or pubs where alcohol is served, and a drinking glass or bottle is available as a weapon. The most common method of glassing involves the attacker smashing an intact glass in the face of the victim. However the glass may be smashed prior to the attack, and then gripped by the remaining base of the glass or neck of the bottle with the broken shards protruding outwards.
Common injuries resulting from glassings are heavy blood loss, permanent scarring, disfigurement and loss of sight through eye injury.
In the United Kingdom, there are more than 5,000 glassing attacks each year.

It always makes me chuckle (it’s a dark chuckle) when someone from the UK tries to pull the moral superiority card on US tendencies toward violence. You guys have plenty of problems on your own lawn you need to clean up before offering us advice.

263

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I just want you all to know that you positively can buy a semi automatic assault rifle in Austria.

And we dont have this shit.

So, back to the drawing board.

I remember a guy though who went on a rampage in a subway station.

He used a hatched.

We should probably outlaw cutlery.

[/quote]

No idea why this is so hard to figure out. Another poster pointed out this recent shooting in Brazil:

[i]Gun politics in Brazil
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because of gun politics in Brazil, all firearms are required to be registered with the state; the minimum age for ownership is 25[1] and although it is legal to carry a gun outside a residence, extremely severe restrictions were made by the federal government since 2002 making it virtually impossible to obtain a carry permit.[/i][/quote]

Well, in that case, nobody would own a gun, right?

Except of course that you can build one for cheap.

The genie is ourt of the bottle, you can ban guns but not the knowledge that guns do exist and can be built.

264

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I just want you all to know that you positively can buy a semi automatic assault rifle in Austria.

And we dont have this shit.

So, back to the drawing board.

I remember a guy though who went on a rampage in a subway station.

He used a hatched.

We should probably outlaw cutlery.

[/quote]

No idea why this is so hard to figure out. Another poster pointed out this recent shooting in Brazil:

[i]Gun politics in Brazil
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because of gun politics in Brazil, all firearms are required to be registered with the state; the minimum age for ownership is 25[1] and although it is legal to carry a gun outside a residence, extremely severe restrictions were made by the federal government since 2002 making it virtually impossible to obtain a carry permit.[/i][/quote]

Well, in that case, nobody would own a gun, right?

Except of course that you can build one for cheap.

The genie is ourt of the bottle, you can ban guns but not the knowledge that guns do exist and can be built.

http://thehomegunsmith.com/[/quote]

Wait till 3D printer technology really takes off.

265

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I just want you all to know that you positively can buy a semi automatic assault rifle in Austria.

And we dont have this shit.

So, back to the drawing board.

I remember a guy though who went on a rampage in a subway station.

He used a hatched.

We should probably outlaw cutlery.

[/quote]

No idea why this is so hard to figure out. Another poster pointed out this recent shooting in Brazil:

[i]Gun politics in Brazil
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because of gun politics in Brazil, all firearms are required to be registered with the state; the minimum age for ownership is 25[1] and although it is legal to carry a gun outside a residence, extremely severe restrictions were made by the federal government since 2002 making it virtually impossible to obtain a carry permit.[/i][/quote]

Well, in that case, nobody would own a gun, right?

Except of course that you can build one for cheap.

The genie is ourt of the bottle, you can ban guns but not the knowledge that guns do exist and can be built.

http://thehomegunsmith.com/[/quote]

Wait till 3D printer technology really takes off.
[/quote]

So far they do fire but they are plastic toys.

Its a toss whether it will fire or blow up in your hands.

The BSP though stands for British Standard Plumbing.

If you use high pressure plumbing parts and get a tool to actually rifle the barrel what you get is a pretty decent piece of equipment.

What is even more interesting is that to build a full auto is way easier to build than a semi auto.

266

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]NikH wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I just want you all to know that you positively can buy a semi automatic assault rifle in Austria.

And we dont have this shit.

So, back to the drawing board.

I remember a guy though who went on a rampage in a subway station.

He used a hatched.

We should probably outlaw cutlery.

[/quote]

Yeah and the population of austria is 8 000 000 while the US is like 350 000 000.
So if every ten millionth is a sick fuck with access to semiautomatic rifles and plans, in austria that would be 0.8 people while in the US 35 people.
So just population wise it’s 43,75x more likely it will happen in the US than austria, if all people are assummed similar.
[/quote]

True, but if those things happen a few times a year in the US, including the failed attempts, you would expect one every 5 years or so.

Also, Germany, where the laws are similar which is 10 times bigger.
[/quote]

No there’s no time frame. If this ratio would be anywhere close to the truth, it would just mean that on average for every 54.6875 school massacres in the US there would be 1 in Austria.

And yes you can 3D print guns or make your own explosives. But most murderers have below average IQ (not talking about any specific case) according to research, and certainly it’s easier to buy a gun than make one yourself.

And what I understood about this news of this particular school shooting was that it wasn’t ‘planned’. That he killed his mom and it escalated that he decided to go to the school and shoot people with his moms gun.
So we could argue that if the mom didnt own a gun, she would still be alive with a bruise and none of the school shooting would have happened.

267

[quote]NikH wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]NikH wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I just want you all to know that you positively can buy a semi automatic assault rifle in Austria.

And we dont have this shit.

So, back to the drawing board.

I remember a guy though who went on a rampage in a subway station.

He used a hatched.

We should probably outlaw cutlery.

[/quote]

Yeah and the population of austria is 8 000 000 while the US is like 350 000 000.
So if every ten millionth is a sick fuck with access to semiautomatic rifles and plans, in austria that would be 0.8 people while in the US 35 people.
So just population wise it’s 43,75x more likely it will happen in the US than austria, if all people are assummed similar.
[/quote]

True, but if those things happen a few times a year in the US, including the failed attempts, you would expect one every 5 years or so.

Also, Germany, where the laws are similar which is 10 times bigger.
[/quote]

No there’s no time frame. If this ratio would be anywhere close to the truth, it would just mean that on average for every 54.6875 school massacres in the US there would be 1 in Austria.

And yes you can 3D print guns or make your own explosives. But most murderers have below average IQ (not talking about any specific case) according to research, and certainly it’s easier to buy a gun than make one yourself.

And what I understood about this news of this particular school shooting was that it wasn’t ‘planned’. That he killed his mom and it escalated that he decided to go to the school and shoot people with his moms gun.
So we could argue that if the mom didnt own a gun, she would still be alive with a bruise and none of the school shooting would have happened.[/quote]

You’re missing the point. When you outlaw something you create a black market for it. Most people in the 1930’s didn’t have either the means or the information to make a high quality whiskey, but it was certainly no problem to obtain good booze during that time.

You are fooling yourself in the worst way if you don’t think that certain people with the knowhow and the wherewithal will not capitalize upon a demand for “home brew” guns; or that, in the case of the USA, a huge underground market in professionally manufactured guns will not thrive.

It will very quickly leave the alleyways and the abandoned warehouses and the trunks of gangsters and foreign criminals, and will become a home grown, fully functioning underground market. And trust me, if you think it’s unregulated now, you ain’t seen nothin yet.

268

That’s just silly. The only people who buy guns ILLEGALLY are CRIMINALS, and they will keep buying them no matter what gun-laws, and they certainly dont buy them now legally.

Whiskey and cannabis etc are addicting and pleasure giving, while as guns are bought because you are scared. Limiting guns will not bring an ‘overgrown blackmarket’ like whiskey or other substances. Limiting guns alot will not change much of anything, but it will not happend since the gun industry has a strong foot in US politics.

If you guys stopped watching TV you’d feel alot safer…

269

[quote]NikH wrote:
That’s just silly. The only people who buy guns ILLEGALLY are CRIMINALS, and they will keep buying them no matter what gun-laws, and they certainly dont buy them now legally.

Whiskey and cannabis etc are addicting and pleasure giving, while as guns are bought because you are scared. Limiting guns will not bring an ‘overgrown blackmarket’ like whiskey or other substances. Limiting guns alot will not change much of anything, but it will not happend since the gun industry has a strong foot in US politics.

If you guys stopped watching TV you’d feel alot safer…[/quote]

Last time I checked, we classified people who shoot up schools full of children as criminals.

270

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Yeah, and you guys are home to a lovely practice called “glassing.”

Glassing is a physical attack using a glass as a weapon. Glassing can occur at bars or pubs where alcohol is served, and a drinking glass or bottle is available as a weapon. The most common method of glassing involves the attacker smashing an intact glass in the face of the victim. However the glass may be smashed prior to the attack, and then gripped by the remaining base of the glass or neck of the bottle with the broken shards protruding outwards.
Common injuries resulting from glassings are heavy blood loss, permanent scarring, disfigurement and loss of sight through eye injury.
In the United Kingdom, there are more than 5,000 glassing attacks each year.

It always makes me chuckle (it’s a dark chuckle) when someone from the UK tries to pull the moral superiority card on US tendencies toward violence. You guys have plenty of problems on your own lawn you need to clean up before offering us advice. [/quote]

I thought this discussion was about a SHOOTING at a school, not what a few drunken men might do to each other on a Friday and Saturday night. I’ve never heard of dozens of innocent children being glassed, just pissed up adults. So it’s hardly the same thing at all and a pretty pathetic counter argument.

True, we do have our own problems (alcohol related violence) but at least we are trying to tackle them with the introduction of a minimum unit price for alcohol and the use of plastic glasses in rough areas etc. So we are dealing with the problem by taking away the weapons and dealing with the root cause of the violence (alcohol)

I apologize if you thought I was trying to be morally superior, I wasn’t, I was just trying to make sense of this in my own head. Obviously having access to a gun does not make a person violent, but it does cause problems when one gets in to the hands of someone who is hellbent on violence.

So what do you make of the statistics then?

Number of murders with firearms in UK 2011 - 58
Number of murders with firearms in US 2010 - 8775

Even taking in to account the population difference (US 5 x UK) you must admit that the discrepancy in the figures is striking. I’m sure we are just as violent a society, but fortunately we don’t all have guns.

271

And are you aware of how deeply rooted the gun culture in America is?

Are you saying that you believe a gun ban would deter pretty much every presently law-abiding citizen from acquiring a weapon?

Maybe if they did a thorough national registry and house to house searches, but then, well, that would be pretty similar to those pictures that push threw up earlier (if that was this thread).

272

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]NikH wrote:
That’s just silly. The only people who buy guns ILLEGALLY are CRIMINALS, and they will keep buying them no matter what gun-laws, and they certainly dont buy them now legally.

Whiskey and cannabis etc are addicting and pleasure giving, while as guns are bought because you are scared. Limiting guns will not bring an ‘overgrown blackmarket’ like whiskey or other substances. Limiting guns alot will not change much of anything, but it will not happend since the gun industry has a strong foot in US politics.

If you guys stopped watching TV you’d feel alot safer…[/quote]

Last time I checked, we classified people who shoot up schools full of children as criminals. [/quote]

Yeah and he didnt use his OWN gun did he?

273

[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Yeah, and you guys are home to a lovely practice called “glassing.”

Glassing is a physical attack using a glass as a weapon. Glassing can occur at bars or pubs where alcohol is served, and a drinking glass or bottle is available as a weapon. The most common method of glassing involves the attacker smashing an intact glass in the face of the victim. However the glass may be smashed prior to the attack, and then gripped by the remaining base of the glass or neck of the bottle with the broken shards protruding outwards.
Common injuries resulting from glassings are heavy blood loss, permanent scarring, disfigurement and loss of sight through eye injury.
In the United Kingdom, there are more than 5,000 glassing attacks each year.

It always makes me chuckle (it’s a dark chuckle) when someone from the UK tries to pull the moral superiority card on US tendencies toward violence. You guys have plenty of problems on your own lawn you need to clean up before offering us advice. [/quote]

I thought this discussion was about a SHOOTING at a school, not what a few drunken men might do to each other on a Friday and Saturday night. I’ve never heard of dozens of innocent children being glassed, just pissed up adults. So it’s hardly the same thing at all and a pretty pathetic counter argument.

True, we do have our own problems (alcohol related violence) but at least we are trying to tackle them with the introduction of a minimum unit price for alcohol and the use of plastic glasses in rough areas etc. So we are dealing with the problem by taking away the weapons and dealing with the root cause of the violence (alcohol)

I apologize if you thought I was trying to be morally superior, I wasn’t, I was just trying to make sense of this in my own head. Obviously having access to a gun does not make a person violent, but it does cause problems when one gets in to the hands of someone who is hellbent on violence.

So what do you make of the statistics then?

Number of murders with firearms in UK 2011 - 58
Number of murders with firearms in US 2010 - 8775

Even taking in to account the population difference (US 5 x UK) you must admit that the discrepancy in the figures is striking. I’m sure we are just as violent a society, but fortunately we don’t all have guns.

[/quote]

274

[quote]NikH wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]NikH wrote:
That’s just silly. The only people who buy guns ILLEGALLY are CRIMINALS, and they will keep buying them no matter what gun-laws, and they certainly dont buy them now legally.

Whiskey and cannabis etc are addicting and pleasure giving, while as guns are bought because you are scared. Limiting guns will not bring an ‘overgrown blackmarket’ like whiskey or other substances. Limiting guns alot will not change much of anything, but it will not happend since the gun industry has a strong foot in US politics.

If you guys stopped watching TV you’d feel alot safer…[/quote]

Last time I checked, we classified people who shoot up schools full of children as criminals. [/quote]

Yeah and he didnt use his OWN gun did he?[/quote]

I believe he…stole it.

275

“guns dont kill, people do” is quite twisted aswell.

If the worst MMA fighter goes nuts he cant do anything.
If the best MMA fighter goes nuts he’d probably get 10 people.
If the worst shooter goes nuts with an automatic shotgun he will do more damage.
If the worst politician goes nuts he can kill 500 000.

Obviously guns kill people since the people would kill alot less without them.

276

Remember, mass shootings are media fodder, but we are interested in a safer overall society.

Again, please, somebody show me how extremely restrictive gun laws in Washington D.C. and Illinois resulted in a better, safer place to live.

277

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.

I think there’s a pretty clear decrease.

278

[quote]NikH wrote:
“guns dont kill, people do” is quite twisted aswell.

If the worst MMA fighter goes nuts he cant do anything.
If the best MMA fighter goes nuts he’d probably get 10 people.
If the worst shooter goes nuts with an automatic shotgun he will do more damage.
If the worst politician goes nuts he can kill 500 000.

Obviously guns kill people since the people would kill alot less without them.[/quote]

Yeah and if you get your hand on ammoniumnitrate and diesel you can kill even more people.

What if you got your hands on a truck !?!

279

Or a truck and ammoniumnitrate, which is basically what Timothy McVeigh did.

280

Thanks for proving my point. “what if you get your hands on atombomb”. The fact is if a guy goes nuts he grabs what ever he can to do most destruction.