Bump
Like I had said before. I wish my T levels reached what KSman wrote about on his TRT Protocol sticky but I haven’t been able to get there.
We have no info??
How old are you?
How much do you wiegh?
Are you primary???
Let me post my last BW. I just weigh 234. I’m 44. And I’m not sure what primary means. I don’t know if I’m a hyperexreter of Test as someone mentioned it to me. Does it mean my body needs more of it as the same dose many use, my body uses it up and I don’t see the same T spike others do? Anyway, here’s my BW.
I welcome any and all suggestions.
This is my TRT protocol that I ran for 5 months before this BW. The protocol was 120mg. Test Cyp weekly (60mg. 2X week) injected SQ and 250ius. HCG M-W-F and no AI.
Total Reference Range
Free Test 12.3 5.0-40.0
Total Test 452 291-739
IGF 199 52-238
LH 0.17L 1.2-8.6
FSH 0.22L 1.27-19.25
Estradiol 24 20-75
Prolactin 7.82 2.64-13.13
PSA 0.86 0-4.00
Cortisol 7.2 No Reference given
WBC 4.4L 4.8-10.8
Lymphocytes 19.1L 20.5-51.1
Mid Cells 6.6 1.7-9.3
Polys 74.3H 35-71
RBC 5.58 4.20-6.10
HGB 17.9 14.0-18.0
HCT 52.6H 42.-52
MCV 94.4 80-100
MCH 32.2H 27-31
MCHC 34.1 32-36
RDW 12.3 11.5-14.5
PLATELETS 173 130-400
SODIUM 141 133-145
POTASSIUM 4.9 3.3-5.1
CHLORIDE 106 96-108
C02 22 22-29
GLUCOSE 87 74-106
BUN 24.7H 6-20
CREATININE 1.20H 0.67-1.17
BUN/CREA RATIO 20.6 9-28
eGFR 65.8 >60
CALCIUM 9 8.6-10.2
ALBUMIN 4.2 3.5-5.2
ALK PHOSPHATASE 52 40-129
AST 43H 0-40
ALT 33 4-41
TOTAL BILIRUBIN 1 0-1.2
TOTAL PROTEIN 6.40 6.4-8.3
GLOBULIN 2.20 2.0-5.0
A/G 1.9 1.1-2.5
VITAMIN D 46.3 30-100
CHOLESTEROL 134 <200
TRIGLYCERIDES 123 0-150
DIRECT LDL 88 <100
HDL CHOLESTEROL 32L >40
CHOL/HDL RATIO 4.19 5.60
TSH 1.49 0.34-5.60
T4, FREE 0.90 0.54-1.24
T3, FREE 2.34L 2.50-3.90
Thanks again for any input.
Primary would be your testicles don’t work
Secondary it’s in the head pituitary
Thanks. I learn all the time here. What do you think about my numbers? I just finished up 2 months of IM running the same protocol and drew BW on Friday. My Dr wants to compare numbers side by side and see which yield better results number wise. I will say my head feels ‘clearer’ after 2 months on IM.
I think 60 mg eod would help alot as Far as your numbers. And would try and stay sub q so ur not poking to many holes in your muscles.
We’re lh and fsh tested prior to trt? What were your numbers?
So, you think I can go up to 180mg. SQ weekly (60mg. EOD)? You’re right. I don’t want pinholes all over me and I’d love to stay with SQ. Maybe it’s not that SQ wasn’t working for me, It might be I needed more T?
The highest that my numbers ever were was T level of 780, but that was 200mg. weekly AND before I started using hCG. And for those 2 months I felt like I could conquer the world.
Can you tell from my numbers about primary and secondary that you’d talked about.
I did have lh and fsh tested. BUT, the Dr that ran those tests (who originally got me on TRT in the first place: March 2012) abruptly quit and they can’t locate the records (that’s back when I didn’t think to ask for them for my own records: now I know better) Another Dr took over and is willing to work with me to get me sorted out and continue the protocol.
I forgot to mention that I’m a stay at home dad to a 6 year old girl. The reason I mention it is (and I had know idea about this) is that there was a study that stay home Dads and how they can suffer from Low T.
As an update, my total T was back to where it “should” be after my latest BW - it was up over 700 in a valley. I’d guess peak is somewhere close to 1000. My free T has always been on the high side of the range - actually marked high on most draws, but just slightly. So, it may just take a bit longer for levels to even out after making the swithc to SQ - I’ve been injecting SQ for several months now. Also - i did bump my dose to 120mg/wk, up from the 100mg/wk. That wouldn’t make a difference of over 300 points on the scale though, I wouldn’t think.
Crisler has even moved to recommending SQ now, FWIW. I would say that if you “feel” better going IM, then that’s what I would stick with.
The doctor ordered the labs but they were from a lab if you know what lab maybe they have the record and your new doctor could order it?? Not sure but worth looking into I think… The doctor is required to keep your records for 10 years there must be a way to get them… Not that it matters but if your balls were completely pooched maybe hcg isn’t doing anything for you. Just a thought
Your a big guy and yes I would say a hyper excreter so you would need more of a dose then me who is 180 for sure…
No I cannot tell if you are primary or secondary without lh and fsh and even then sometimes it is difficult cause it could be a little bit of both sometimes
Even if you went to 66 mg per shot and landed around 200 I say go for it if that’s what u need bro
The lab results are YOURS, the doctor has to give them to you if you ask. Period.
I put a call in for them today.
Do you mean Crisler has recommended SQ exclusively for TRT instead of IM? Are you a patient of his or know someone that is? He seems to be go to guy for all things TRT.
Look up sub q injections on you tube and you will see him injecting sub q to himself
I have been on the road for business and will have a high workload for 6-8 months that my limit my time here.
Thyroid is suspect. Caused by low iodine?
Testing LH/FSH on TRT is stupid as they will be low. Maybe one time as FSH not going near zero can indicate testicular cancer.
Your Total cholesterol would be idea at 185, your levels are pathologically low. At 160 and below, all cause mortality increases. Cholesterol is the foundation for many of your hormones [and cortisol] and Vit-D.
Study the diagram here: Steroid hormone - Wikipedia
Something is elevating ALT/AST. But sore muscles can do that too. Lay off intense lifting before your labs.
If that cholesterol was taken at 8AM, it is way too low. If taken later on, the results are not very useful.
Can you double your T dose? With your hyper metabolization of T, injecting twice a week may not be enough. Try injecting T EOD. We have seen a few guys here who have needed 300mg T to get to decent levels.
fT3 is very low, should be near 3.2, check your body temperatures and iodine intake as per below.
This is standard advice maintained here:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/please_help_me_refine_standard_advice
There is a huge amount of knowledge in the stickies. Please study these. Start with the advice for new guys sticky.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/prototype_advice_for_new_guys
There is a lot to read there, so read carefully. There are suggestions for things that are root causes of low testosterone [T]. Low T is a symptom, not a root cause itself. But low T itself is a root cause of many of the symptoms one experiences. Note that other things cause the same spectrum of symptoms, so do not have T tunnel vision. Many docs are guilty of that and they only treat the symptom [low T] and do not attempt to find the real problem. If you go to a clinic that specializes in low T, you will get T tunnel vision for sure.
Post info about yourself as suggested in the above sticky. We need labs, almost all of your labs, not just hormones. We also need the lab ranges.
We see a very high number of thyroid issues in the population of guys that show up here. So there is a strong focus on that. Most people are iodine deficient to some degree. Your history of iodine intake from iodized salt and vitamins that list iodine is important. If you become iodine deficient, the RDA [recommended daily allowance] is inadequate for recovery of iodine stores. Please see the thyroid basics sticky for more information.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/thryroid_basics
You do not want to suffer from subclinical hypothyroidism or get Rx thyroid meds to treat iodine deficiency.
If you are injecting T or contemplating that, read the protocol for injections sticky.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/trt_protocol_for_injections
There are stickies for finding a TRT doc, estradiol [E2] and lab work.
Do not place your history or treatment details in the stickies! That belongs in your thread. Keep all of your posts in your thread so we can have a clear picture of your situation and needs.
With ft3 low was can assume rt3 is high and thus low body temps.
Do not take iodine without testing for autoimmune thyroid diseases such as hashimotos and graves disease.
50 mg of iodine is 333 times the daily recommended dose and could be dangerous, one must be careful of what we do when not under the care of an experienced thyroid professional.
No need to go to extremes here… 300 mg is alottt and I would want to see shbg numbers before driving ft sky high…
I think 66 mg or 60 mg 3 times a weeks is a good start.
I’m starting to see people that have really high free T have low shbg… This is new to me but I’m curious what your number is and would like to see what it does after adding more T.
Any chance you can test it before and after lol ?!!
Plus injecting 100 mg sub c seems like to much???
I appreciate everyone’s input. My wife was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s about 2 years ago. I just got BW done last week and should get the results in a couple of days. I think my hbg numbers were tested, but not my shbg. I’m not sure I know the difference.
I guess this means I’m a hyper metabolizer of T? Should I be concerned about this? Should I be looking for the underlying reason for this?
Aces, are you injecting SQ? And if so what is your protocol?
Thanks again guys.
Naa don’t be worried bro… It is what it is…
Shbg= sex hormone binding globulin
Not sure what hbg is but you might mean tgab if your referring to thyroid labs
I quit trt for now… I have other issues going on and did feel better on trt. I may have Lyme disease I’m pretty ill a lot of the time :(. Doctors here won’t help me. Which may be the reason I try and give help when I can… Because I know how hard it is to find answers…
Hey Aces- I looked at my labs again and it says HGB, I’ll have to ask my Dr what that is. I see him in a couple of days.
Sorry to hear about what your going through. Where do you live? They thought that my wife had Lyme disease and about to diagnose her sister with it. I’m hoping you live in SoCal. We have a great Dr where my wife finally got the answers she needed.
Your help here is very appreciated.
Hemoglobin is what he ordered.
I live in Ontario canada 
I’m not a patient of Crisler, I just read the forums on his site. Although I don’t think he recommends SQ exclusively, he does recommend them.
So Lyme turned into hashimotos?
Does she still have symptoms and what was the course of action?