We, as a nation, would need a cultural change in order to see a drastic drop in abortion rates. That takes work beyond what I see out of a lot of both camps on the issue.
[/quote]
THIS.
If a fraction of the energy spent on arguing back and forth over what is and probably always will be a stalemate were transferred to the thing we can ALL agree on, we’d be much better off.
[/quote]
The thing about it is, once you start down this path you run into a lot of fractional issues too. It is a long road, but one better taken than the road to “just make a new law”.
The effects of the 60’s and all the hippy free love and fuck-a-thons as taken a firm grasp in our society, and we aren’t as cultured about sex as say Europe is. (Or at least my perception of what Europe’s view on sex is, which may be worng)
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Personally I do not need to be told when I convince a lady to save the life of her unborn child, though it would be quite nice. In fact it would light a fire big enough in my soul that I would never falter in my attempts. Though as I type these words, I have been praying and fighting for life for nearly a decade while never once being told that I directly saved the life of a perfectly innocent child. My passion grows every year and I am proud to know: I survived Roe v Wade, yet Roe v Wade will NOT survive me!
ps - Does everyone still see the videos? They still have their secured address, that is why I ask ; )[/quote]
There’s no such thing. A sperm is not an autonomous living human being. It carries information, that’s all.[/quote]
A fetus would be %50 more autonomous and probably %50 more a living human being but it is not yet a complete being until it is completely Autonomous
[/quote]
So, what like 7 or 8 years old?
My two year old certainly isn’t autonomous. So you support the “right” to abort her then?
My two year old certainly isn’t autonomous. So you support the “right” to abort her then?[/quote]
I’m sorry to hear that
My children could live and govern their own body functions at birth . I believe law has it around 12 weeks . Where feasibly you could remove the child and it could live
My children could live and govern their own body functions at birth .
[/quote]
So your newborn infant was potty trained at birth? You should be in record books.
I assume your infant fed itself too, and your toddler never had to be told not to touch a hot stove.
Back to reality, your kids, like every kid, would survive a couple hours if left alone for the first 12-18 months of life outside the womb and you know it.
Dont’ feel bad, this is where a whole lot of the pro-choice stance falls apart when they use the twisted immoral logical road you are traveling on.
We, as a nation, would need a cultural change in order to see a drastic drop in abortion rates. That takes work beyond what I see out of a lot of both camps on the issue.
[/quote]
THIS.
If a fraction of the energy spent on arguing back and forth over what is and probably always will be a stalemate were transferred to the thing we can ALL agree on, we’d be much better off.
Showing pictures of aborted fetuses to pro-choicers tends only to make them hate anti-abortionists more.[/quote]
They hate us anyway, it doesn’t matter what they see or don’t see. Certainly, pro-abortionists would love nothing more than to see us go away. It’s not going to happen.
There is not really a middle ground in this debate. Abortion is the willful taking of a human life. I don’t see how you can convince the pro-life person that this is ok. The facts are on the side of life.
There’s no such thing. A sperm is not an autonomous living human being. It carries information, that’s all.[/quote]
A fetus would be %50 more autonomous and probably %50 more a living human being but it is not yet a complete being until it is completely Autonomous
[/quote]
A fetus is a verifiable autonomous living human being. It’s a scientific fact. You’re just making shit up out of thin-ass air.
So your newborn infant was potty trained at birth? You should be in record books.
Back to reality, your kids, like every kid, would survive a couple hours [/quote]
Potty trained does not = Autonomy
I think you and I may not agree on the definition of autonomy . I think it means being able to function on your own . I could see it as being able to go out and kill a buffalo also but that is not my definition for this particular purpose
I at least am speaking about a child to live on it’s own until some force (MAY BE LACK OF FOOD) brings about it’s demise
My two year old certainly isn’t autonomous. So you support the “right” to abort her then?[/quote]
I’m sorry to hear that
My children could live and govern their own body functions at birth . I believe law has it around 12 weeks . Where feasibly you could remove the child and it could live
[/quote]
Your children governed their own functions from conception. The host provides support for that, but the living human inside is a separate autonomous human being from the host. It’s not the same as the host. Born babies are totally dependent still on a host without it it dies.
There’s no such thing. A sperm is not an autonomous living human being. It carries information, that’s all.[/quote]
A fetus would be %50 more autonomous and probably %50 more a living human being but it is not yet a complete being until it is completely Autonomous
[/quote]
A fetus is a verifiable autonomous living human being. It’s a scientific fact. You’re just making shit up out of thin-ass air.[/quote]
what is your definition of autonomy , listen to beans , his definition would be applicable given a different conversation
[quote]H factor wrote:
I would love to see a huge step up in support for birth control and condom use to reduce unwanted pregnancies. Both sides can (and should) work together to limit the amount of unwanted pregnancies. [/quote]
Agree again, but preventing pregnancy goes well into personal responsibility as well.
I mean I can teach the most comprehensive course on sex ed the world has ever seen and stand on a corner and pass out pills and condoms… I, however, can’t be there to put them on.
I never wore the damn things, and I knew damn well the consequences. [/quote]
Of course not, but it’s all steps to reducing unwanted pregnancies.
If pro-lifers REALLY wanted to limit the amount of abortions they would start right here. Many of them are so caught up in simply getting roe v. wade to be overturned that they lose sight of what they hope is the result of that.
Your children governed their own functions from conception. The host provides support for that, but the living human inside is a separate autonomous human being from the host. It’s not the same as the host. Born babies are totally dependent still on a host without it it dies.[/quote]
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
The USA (and other countries as well) have changed the definition of innocent in regard to people to fit a policy decision. We have put a value on people we have defined as innocent. Is there a difference between an aborted fetus and a dead child called collateral damage? How many Pro-lifers cheered on Shock and Awe? Maybe Pro-lifers would be looked at differently if they were consistent. [/quote]
I live in rural Kansas and I can’t tell you the amount of staunch pro-lifers who have suggested the solution in Iraq and Afghanistan was “nuke those towel heads.”
How pro-life and Christian of you good sirs! [/quote]
Yup funny how those same folks are down with shoot to kill when some douche bag steals your car stereo, but somehow when sperm touches vag its a miracle… Welcome to America where the only life you cant take is a fetus
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I at least am speaking about a child to live on it’s own until some force (MAY BE LACK OF FOOD) brings about it’s demise
[/quote]
You are in over your head here.
Autonomous means Autonomous Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster which would require survival due to its own action or accord. Therefore not being able to feed itself means it is not autonomous.
There isn’t an “it isn’t really human in the womb so we can murder it” logical path that won’t apply to a 3 month old infant. So I suggest you find a new peg to stand on.
Look it isn’t magic fairy dust that grows the egg and sperm into a baby, it is life. And it isn’t some zombie being until after the 12 week mark, it is human. Just admit you are okay with selective murder and be honest with yourself.
