Sarah Palin Resigns

[quote]borrek wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
I think Wired magazine, during the campaign, said he could be the “First Geek President,” and that resonated even if it sounds silly in retrospect and even though I knew then that I disagreed with quite a few of his policies. A young, cerebral, pragmatic guy who reminded me of the academic people I grew up with: I wanted to see “one of us” succeed in politics.

So, the wierd fucking twerp who fixes my computer…is POTUS? No wonder we’re goat fucked.

Sarah Palin comes from somewhere ‘else’ to you? A woman who is a successful businesswoman, mayor, and governor, who is honest, decent, married to the father of their children…is alien to you? So you voted for a Kenyan nerd?

Wow!!

Right, because all successful married women are the same.

Try thinking a little less boolean, and a little more decimal.[/quote]

Voting someone to be POTUS isn’t supposed to be something you do because its ‘trendy’. I don’t care if someone is young and hip, geeky, but I DO care if people vote like lemmings rushing to the sea, because someone is trendy.

Anyhow, McCain had been in the Senate and had faced death for his country. If we’re going to vote trendy, how about being trendy for an honest-to-God hero, instead of a geek nerd ‘with it’ guy?

BTW: he’s not a very good geek. He can’t fix his teleprompter.

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
I think Wired magazine, during the campaign, said he could be the “First Geek President,” and that resonated even if it sounds silly in retrospect and even though I knew then that I disagreed with quite a few of his policies. A young, cerebral, pragmatic guy who reminded me of the academic people I grew up with: I wanted to see “one of us” succeed in politics.

So, the wierd fucking twerp who fixes my computer…is POTUS? No wonder we’re goat fucked.

Sarah Palin comes from somewhere ‘else’ to you? A woman who is a successful businesswoman, mayor, and governor, who is honest, decent, married to the father of their children…is alien to you? So you voted for a Kenyan nerd?

Wow!!

I was being honest. I don’t doubt that she’s decent – I didn’t say she wasn’t.

There are cultural differences. Evangelical Christianity. Hunting. Marrying young and having many children. Rural life, with very little contact with foreigners, foreign countries, or nonwhites (except Native Americans). Family in the military. None of these are bad – and I’d say the military service is admirable – but they are a long way outside my own experience. I mean, my mom didn’t bring home caribou meat, she brought home extra issues of Signs University of Chicago Press Journals: Cookie absent from the office. Sarah Palin does come from somewhere else: she comes from Wasilla.

I did think Palin was inexperienced, and she’s a social conservative and I’m not. Those are more serious reasons than the cultural stuff, which I’ll admit is something we ought to strive to look beyond.
[/quote]

Abe Lincoln was born in a log cabin, told racist jokes, and had one term in Congress. So based on what you’ve said, since he’s not like you, you’d have voted against Abe?

I get it, Head, and I respect McCain. Maybe he would have been a better president; it’s hard for me to tell these things.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
I think Wired magazine, during the campaign, said he could be the “First Geek President,” and that resonated even if it sounds silly in retrospect and even though I knew then that I disagreed with quite a few of his policies. A young, cerebral, pragmatic guy who reminded me of the academic people I grew up with: I wanted to see “one of us” succeed in politics.

So, the wierd fucking twerp who fixes my computer…is POTUS? No wonder we’re goat fucked.

Sarah Palin comes from somewhere ‘else’ to you? A woman who is a successful businesswoman, mayor, and governor, who is honest, decent, married to the father of their children…is alien to you? So you voted for a Kenyan nerd?

Wow!!

I was being honest. I don’t doubt that she’s decent – I didn’t say she wasn’t.

There are cultural differences. Evangelical Christianity. Hunting. Marrying young and having many children. Rural life, with very little contact with foreigners, foreign countries, or nonwhites (except Native Americans). Family in the military. None of these are bad – and I’d say the military service is admirable – but they are a long way outside my own experience. I mean, my mom didn’t bring home caribou meat, she brought home extra issues of Signs University of Chicago Press Journals: Cookie absent from the office. Sarah Palin does come from somewhere else: she comes from Wasilla.

I did think Palin was inexperienced, and she’s a social conservative and I’m not. Those are more serious reasons than the cultural stuff, which I’ll admit is something we ought to strive to look beyond.

Abe Lincoln was born in a log cabin, told racist jokes, and had one term in Congress. So based on what you’ve said, since he’s not like you, you’d have voted against Abe?

[/quote]

Compared to Douglas, Breckenridge or Bell, Lincoln was an intellectual, literary-minded serious and politically brilliant man. He wasn’t perfect, of course, but he was clearly the best candidate in 1860. Comparing Palin (or McCain, though less so) to Obama along these metrics doesn’t exactly do her any favors.

Look, I may have misspoken. Guess it doesn’t pay to be too forthcoming around here.

Nobody’s upbringing is a disqualification from office. Nobody’s private lifestyle is a qualification. Regardless of that, the subjective factor does matter to people. It helped Palin among her supporters and hurt her among her detractors. It helped Bush and hurt Kerry in 2004. It’s not a very high-minded way to pick politicians, but that’s psychology for you. And I was admitting that it mattered a little to me. I do try to get beyond that in general.

And, at any rate, I don’t have a problem with humble origins.

I agree that Lincoln would have stood out head and shoulders above the other candidates. He was the closest thing to an abolitionist that national politics was going to see, and he was visibly a moral and intelligent man. Experience meant something different then anyhow, as the US was less involved in foreign policy, and publicity was very different. It’s not that one term in Congress or one term as governor isn’t enough – I think it can be enough. But a national candidate has to spend time reading up on the issues and preparing for media coverage; Palin simply didn’t have enough of that kind of time.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
pushharder wrote:

FTR, Irish, even if someone had laid a piece of pipe to your head and you started talking trash about Nancy Pelosi’s husband and children I would’ve jumped your case.

Another litmus test: take Obama’s girls and lay out the same diatribe against them, even making fun of their unusual names.

It would be just as trashy and pathetic. Party is irrelevant.

I obviously don’t like Obama nor his policies. But I cannot fathom a day where I would ever think much less type the malignant venom about his beautiful wife and children that I’ve seen in this thread and elsewhere.

[/quote]

Trashing her and her family is one thing and is uncalled for. But certain aspects of their family’s personal life have a relevance to politics and Palin’s own stated positions that is not the case with Obama. Such as the appropriateness of abstinence-only education when even girls raised in devoutly religious homes preaching abstinence have sex and also FAIL to use protection and get preganant. Of which Bristol Palin is only one example (but one who has stated that abstinence is not realistic).

Lincoln was truly an extraordinary man and president, but he gets way too much credit for his “abolitionist” tendencies.

Lincoln was about preventing the secession of the south. Freeing the slaves was way down his list of priorities and in the debates with Douglas he made it abundantly clear that he did not view Negroes as the innate equals to Caucasians except in their right to not be slaves.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

As opposed to the Republicans, who truly represent “working class commoners.”

You seem confused - I didn’t say the Republicans truly represened the “working class commoners”, and you still fail to account for the Democrats’ wide eyed advertising that they do.

Liberals can’t stand “common men” - what, with their crazy sky god, less-than-libertine social values and their Puritan work ethic and what not.

Except if you live in the city. Or are a minority. Or don’t agree with massive tax cuts for the rich. You know, cause no “common men” think like that.

How could you possibly know what a “common man” thinks?

And more besides, you are offering a red herring - Republicans may or may not be the champion of the “common man”, but that is irrelevant to whether the Left/Democrats are.

Hint: they aren’t, despite their self-marketing. You know as well as anyone - you wouldn’t be caught dead spending time with an Ohio pipefitter or a Tennessee farmer, or an Alaskan moose hunter, for that matter.

That is fine you (and others) have your reasons, but my point is - why keep up the fiction that you do? [/quote]

Why keep up fiction that those are the only “common men?” What about the urban teacher who makes $30,000 a year. Or the struggling social worker. Or any plethora of middle-income Americans who live in suburbs or the city. Whose lives still focus on family, teeball, kids soccer games, daughter’s ballet recitals, etc… Or is your defintion of “comman man” limited to those who perform manual labor for a living.

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Look, I may have misspoken. Guess it doesn’t pay to be too forthcoming around here.

Nobody’s upbringing is a disqualification from office. Nobody’s private lifestyle is a qualification. Regardless of that, the subjective factor does matter to people. It helped Palin among her supporters and hurt her among her detractors. It helped Bush and hurt Kerry in 2004. It’s not a very high-minded way to pick politicians, but that’s psychology for you. And I was admitting that it mattered a little to me. I do try to get beyond that in general.

And, at any rate, I don’t have a problem with humble origins.

I agree that Lincoln would have stood out head and shoulders above the other candidates. He was the closest thing to an abolitionist that national politics was going to see, and he was visibly a moral and intelligent man. Experience meant something different then anyhow, as the US was less involved in foreign policy, and publicity was very different. It’s not that one term in Congress or one term as governor isn’t enough – I think it can be enough. But a national candidate has to spend time reading up on the issues and preparing for media coverage; Palin simply didn’t have enough of that kind of time.[/quote]

The thing that really condemns Palin in my book isn’t really her lack of knowledge. Anyone suddenly thrust in the national spotlight will be a newbie at first. Now, I don’t entirely buy this as an excuse - I’m pretty sure any random mid-level blogger knows more about foreign policy than she does - but it’s understandable.

It’s that, having had her ignorance exposed, she did absolutely nothing to correct it. One of the most damning stories bits in that Vanity Fair article talks about how the McCain campaign sent over squads of aides to desperately attempt to get her up to speed, and she largely blew them off, or just sort of moped to herself while they tried to teach her. And nothing she’s said since the election has given any indication that she’s improved at all. It amazed me that during the Couric interview she couldn’t name a single newspaper that she read. Not a stock respectable conservative paper like the Journal or the Washington Times? Not the goddamn Anchorage Daily News? Nothing? That’s an embarrassment, to herself and to her supporters.

Together with this, she has a tendency to avoid things that don’t go well for her. Good politicians understand the art of compensating for a bad media appearance. Nixon learned the value of stage-makeup and grooming after the 1960 Kennedy debate. Bill Clinton, after giving an awful speech at the 1988 DNC, went on Letterman, kidded himself, played the sax and repaired much of the damage. But after Palin had a few embarrassing interviews, she decided to ignore the media entirely. Avoiding interviews - even with a sympathetic outlet like the WSJ, say, or the National Journal - is not a trait that a serious would-be-national-politician should have.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Lincoln was truly an extraordinary man and president, but he gets way too much credit for his “abolitionist” tendencies.

Lincoln was about preventing the secession of the south. Freeing the slaves was way down his list of priorities and in the debates with Douglas he made it abundantly clear that he did not view Negroes as the innate equals to Caucasians except in their right to not be slaves.[/quote]

um… we all know that.
Even the “best” of the abolitionists weren’t too big on civil equality, and Lincoln wasn’t one of them. You’re right, he primarily wanted to save the Union.

Well said. And I think this “appeal to ignorance” will continue to harm the GOP as long as it sticks with it.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

Most who can’t stand Palin don’t wish for her death. Anymore than twisted, venomous, and perverted Mick is representative of most conservatives.

I call the act of homosexuality twisted and perverted so therefore you say that I’m twisted and perverted…Another 20 something PC boy who has it ass backwards.

I am not talking about your belief system. I am talking about the venon and vitriol (and somteimes unsubtantiated bullshit) you spew on these forums. Or maybe I’m talking about another Mick entirely.

Since you attacked me with no reason on a thread that I wasn’t even taking part in…and you seem hell bent on taking this thread off course…why don’t you tell me about all of the alleged unsubstantiated bullshit…give me a few examples…or shut up PC boy.

You mean like whining for weeks about examples about how harmful and dangerous polygamy is in most situations? And then utterly failing to response because your foot is stuck in your mouth when I provide many? You’re not worth it. It’s your entire hateful posting style. You wouldn’t understand. I’m out to celebrate the 4th. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

I think I remember part of that, but as I recall you were the one who disappeared from the thread unable to come up with any good answers. But it figures you’d be pro polygamy PC boy. Have a nice 4th.
[/quote]

I was and am against polygamy you dumb shit. And provided a whole host of reasons why it is a detrimental and disastrous instiution with a host of resources for you to evaluate after numerous complaints and demands from you to do so. And once I did you had shit to say. You really are dumber than shitstains.

Quidnunc: that’s my problem with her as well. (Was trying to be a little more charitable.)

But it’s true. She avoided cramming on the facts, avoided being coached for public media appearances, and, after the Couric interview, avoided the press altogether. The danger of becoming so down on the “Mainstream Media” is that you actually don’t get enough national and international news. It becomes very easy to live in an echo chamber. She really seemed more confused than she should have been, and that’s because she prioritized her folksy image over getting up to speed on the details.

Not the same as being a bad politician. It’s being incurious. Maybe a little stumble in front of the camera is endearing and shows she’s not fake. But not educating herself shows she’s not interested in what’s important.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
Look, I may have misspoken. Guess it doesn’t pay to be too forthcoming around here.

Nobody’s upbringing is a disqualification from office. Nobody’s private lifestyle is a qualification. Regardless of that, the subjective factor does matter to people. It helped Palin among her supporters and hurt her among her detractors. It helped Bush and hurt Kerry in 2004. It’s not a very high-minded way to pick politicians, but that’s psychology for you. And I was admitting that it mattered a little to me. I do try to get beyond that in general.

And, at any rate, I don’t have a problem with humble origins.

I agree that Lincoln would have stood out head and shoulders above the other candidates. He was the closest thing to an abolitionist that national politics was going to see, and he was visibly a moral and intelligent man. Experience meant something different then anyhow, as the US was less involved in foreign policy, and publicity was very different. It’s not that one term in Congress or one term as governor isn’t enough – I think it can be enough. But a national candidate has to spend time reading up on the issues and preparing for media coverage; Palin simply didn’t have enough of that kind of time.

The thing that really condemns Palin in my book isn’t really her lack of knowledge. Anyone suddenly thrust in the national spotlight will be a newbie at first. Now, I don’t entirely buy this as an excuse - I’m pretty sure any random mid-level blogger knows more about foreign policy than she does - but it’s understandable.

It’s that, having had her ignorance exposed, she did absolutely nothing to correct it. One of the most damning stories bits in that Vanity Fair article talks about how the McCain campaign sent over squads of aides to desperately attempt to get her up to speed, and she largely blew them off, or just sort of moped to herself while they tried to teach her. And nothing she’s said since the election has given any indication that she’s improved at all. It amazed me that during the Couric interview she couldn’t name a single newspaper that she read. Not a stock respectable conservative paper like the Journal or the Washington Times? Not the goddamn Anchorage Daily News? Nothing? That’s an embarrassment, to herself and to her supporters.

Together with this, she has a tendency to avoid things that don’t go well for her. Good politicians understand the art of compensating for a bad media appearance. Nixon learned the value of stage-makeup and grooming after the 1960 Kennedy debate. Bill Clinton, after giving an awful speech at the 1988 DNC, went on Letterman, kidded himself, played the sax and repaired much of the damage. But after Palin had a few embarrassing interviews, she decided to ignore the media entirely. Avoiding interviews - even with a sympathetic outlet like the WSJ, say, or the National Journal - is not a trait that a serious would-be-national-politician should have.

To sum up what you think about Palin: “She is not a very good politician.”

And therein lies her appeal.

Shitarooski, that was easy. Do not quit your day job just to try out for a major league pitching position.

[/quote]

Her appeal as a candidate for political office?

We could debate whether being a bad “politician” is an objectively bad characteristic in a candidate. I say it is, romantic Bullworth-type fantasies notwithstanding, because someone without political instincts cannot get anything done.

But being ignorant, being willfully ignorant, priding herself on that ignorance and refusing to remove her ignorance, were pretty much inexcusable characteristics in her.

Who is more “common man”, the $30k/year urban union teacher or the rancher? Which is the “real” America, the urban coasts or the rural middle? Which is more beneficial, the liberal urban ideal or the conservative rural ideal?

It’s impossible to answer these questions, and the idea that we must answer them (or worse, compromise) is a false choice.

All this talk of regionalism and different cultures within the U.S. should be convincing us all that an all-encompassing, one-size-fits-all federal government is the wrong way to go.

Read this thread: it’s clear that the federal government is wholly unable of doing anything without a sizable chunk of the country feeling upset, as if they “lost”, and it’s not the government’s fault. It’s because the U.S. is simply too large and too varied to be effectively governed by one central authority.

A wise, just, and necessary law for the Alisa’s in Chicago may be worthless and tyrannical for the Push’s in Montana. So should we compromise? Should we force one group or another to just deal with it? Why can’t we just allow the Alisas to govern Chicago and the Push’s to govern Montana?

Let states and municipalities handle the brunt of legislating, and a much larger chunk of the country will be satisfied because the law will more closely represent what they believe to be right.

[quote]quidnunc wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
I think Wired magazine, during the campaign, said he could be the “First Geek President,” and that resonated even if it sounds silly in retrospect and even though I knew then that I disagreed with quite a few of his policies. A young, cerebral, pragmatic guy who reminded me of the academic people I grew up with: I wanted to see “one of us” succeed in politics.

So, the wierd fucking twerp who fixes my computer…is POTUS? No wonder we’re goat fucked.

Sarah Palin comes from somewhere ‘else’ to you? A woman who is a successful businesswoman, mayor, and governor, who is honest, decent, married to the father of their children…is alien to you? So you voted for a Kenyan nerd?

Wow!!

I was being honest. I don’t doubt that she’s decent – I didn’t say she wasn’t.

There are cultural differences. Evangelical Christianity. Hunting. Marrying young and having many children. Rural life, with very little contact with foreigners, foreign countries, or nonwhites (except Native Americans). Family in the military. None of these are bad – and I’d say the military service is admirable – but they are a long way outside my own experience. I mean, my mom didn’t bring home caribou meat, she brought home extra issues of Signs University of Chicago Press Journals: Cookie absent from the office. Sarah Palin does come from somewhere else: she comes from Wasilla.

I did think Palin was inexperienced, and she’s a social conservative and I’m not. Those are more serious reasons than the cultural stuff, which I’ll admit is something we ought to strive to look beyond.

Abe Lincoln was born in a log cabin, told racist jokes, and had one term in Congress. So based on what you’ve said, since he’s not like you, you’d have voted against Abe?

Compared to Douglas, Breckenridge or Bell, Lincoln was an intellectual, literary-minded serious and politically brilliant man. He wasn’t perfect, of course, but he was clearly the best candidate in 1860. Comparing Palin (or McCain, though less so) to Obama along these metrics doesn’t exactly do her any favors. [/quote]

Lincoln was a railroad lawyer who was put in to get the transcontinental railroad through Congress (which he promptly did). He also happened to have recently acquired some land in Council Bluffs, Iowa…where the railhead was. He then sent Federal troops into states that decided they wanted to leave the ‘Union’ (union by force, that is).

And Douglas was easily Lincoln’s intellectual equal. The only difference was that Lincoln had the railroad money. And he was trendy.

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Quidnunc: that’s my problem with her as well. (Was trying to be a little more charitable.)

But it’s true. She avoided cramming on the facts, avoided being coached for public media appearances, and, after the Couric interview, avoided the press altogether. The danger of becoming so down on the “Mainstream Media” is that you actually don’t get enough national and international news. It becomes very easy to live in an echo chamber. She really seemed more confused than she should have been, and that’s because she prioritized her folksy image over getting up to speed on the details.

Not the same as being a bad politician. It’s being incurious. Maybe a little stumble in front of the camera is endearing and shows she’s not fake. But not educating herself shows she’s not interested in what’s important.[/quote]

What did Obama know, sans teleprompter, that Palin didn’t? How to say: “uh…and then we’ll…uh…change will be my…uh…our goal will be…uh…uh…” ?

You voted for someone because they had a teleprompter?