'Sarah Palin is a F'ing Retard' - Colbert

[Nick_Danger]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

You know what you did. I know what you did. Every reasonable reader here knows what you did. You made a post that essentially said, “All Reagan cared about was the rich.”[/quote]

There you go yet again…

You’re responding not to what I said but what you divine I meant.

What I said is:

“First, Reagan also took on debt to:
-reduce taxes for the rich
-squeeze the budget in the hopes that it’d lead to cutting social services”

Reagan did reduce taxes for the rich. I made no mention of what the trickle-down effects may or may not have been, no mention of who/what Reagan cared about, etc.

All that crap is your imagination.

You’re arguing not against what I said, but what you claim I meant – Strawman.

Kids these days…

When you say, "Reagan wanted tax cuts for the rich…

Since I didn’t say that…

[cremaster]

[quote]Nick Danger wrote:
…What I said is:

“First, Reagan also took on debt to:
-reduce taxes for the rich
-squeeze the budget in the hopes that it’d lead to cutting social services”

Reagan did reduce taxes for the rich. I made no mention of what the trickle-down effects may or may not have been, no mention of who/what Reagan cared about, etc.
…[/quote]

Since you are such a stickler for the truth, you’ll have to admit that

Reagan cut did not ‘cut taxes for the rich’ he cut the TAX RATE.

(But, I feel this will be like pointing out a flaw to Ryan P.)

[Nick_Danger]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Simply because the right wing says it does not mean that it’s wrong.[/quote]

I agree. I never said it was, thus this is Strawman.

The fact is Obama uses a teleprompter far more than any of his predecessors.

What are you relying on for this. This is a quantitative statement, thus amenable to numbers. Please to provide.

You can’t dismiss everything because it may have once been said by someone from the right.

Again, I agree, and I don’t. Note I criticized the loony extremes, not the right. Note I also equally criticized the loony left.

And that doesn’t make them (teleprompter parroting) wrong, does it?

It makes them silly/hypocritical. As I mentioned it’s the right wing attack machine tactic of attacking their foe’s perceived strengths (intelligence is a perceived strength of obama’s, so is attacked using the teleprompter thing – which all politicians use to a great degree, and it ignores the times he doesn’t and is articulate).

Did he not try to push through a massive spending bill called National Health Care? Did he not bow to foreign leaders? Did he not push a foolish program called “Cash for Clunkers”?

Yes he did. And I was not addressing those points (other than to specifically agree on clunkers with you, and say the bowing thing is silly. As for health care I think he’s handled it very badly, and what he’s contributed to the plan is harmful (for example his the deals with the private insurers to require all to sign up, and the deal with pharma to not use the power of the gov’t to negotiate lower prices).

Just because I criticize parroting crap like telempromter does not mean I disagree with you on many points. Don’t fall into pushharder’s mistake and intuit what I think – instead stick with what I’ve said.

Why don’t you point out ONE item on my original list that you would consider silly?

I did – you mentioned teleprompter again on the list, and the bowing thing. I think it was wrong to bow, and I think it’s silly to make a big deal about it.

But, in reality the teleprompter is important simply because the left wing media painted Bush as an idiot because of verbal gaffes. Obama needs a telepromter 24/7 to avoid this and he’s still making them.

Ok - I mentioned bush wasn’t as dumb as he’s portrayed, and obama isn’t as smart.

I mentioned the teleprompter crap is the RWAM (right wing attack machine) tactic to attack obama’s perceived strength. I mentioned all(most?) politician’s do it so it’s silly/hypocritical to attack obama for it and not attack palin/bush/etc for it. I mentioned we have serious problems and that silly/hypocritical attacks only distract from them, and so hurt not help.

Finally, obama doesn’t use them 24/7 – no politician does. Every politician ‘wings it’ occasionally. Making the 24/7 claim is silly and obviously false, and frankly cedes the argument.

Are you new to this game? They’ve [reps/dems] been fighting since their inception and will continue to do so. It’s called p o l i t i c s.

And working together to fix the problems is called g o v e r n i n g.

[quote] Lobbyists? Oh you mean the ones that have over run the White House since Obama took office? The exact ones that Obama pledged would be out if he was elected, those lobbyists?
[/quote]

Yep those. The same lobbyists that have bought both parties. The same lobbyists that both parties have claimed they’d curtail.

This relates to the point I made about standing on Principle – go ahead and attack obama for not living up to his words regarding transparency and curtailing lobbyist’s influence – he deserves that. But you also have to hold everyone accountable on this – reps too.

Everyone must be held accountable, not just those you disagree with or dislike.

[Nick_Danger]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Nick Danger wrote:

First, Reagan also took on debt to:
-reduce taxes for the rich[/quote]

I know you’re not stupid so please stop saying stupid things.

Reagan lowered taxes fore every single American who paid taxes, not just for the rich.[/quote]

I didn’t say he only lowered taxes for the rich (top personal tax bracket dropped from 70% to 28%).

And I didn’t say that lowering taxes for the rich is a bad thing.

Some experts (Center on Budget and Policy Priorities) argue that the large reductions in 1981 were followed by abnormally slow growth in income tax receipts. Combine that with increased spending and debt more than tripled from 900 billion dollars to 2.8 trillion dollars during Reagan’s tenure – that was my point regarding tax cuts for the rich and debt increases.

One can argue that the tax cuts increased revenue, and one can argue that it slowed the growth of tax receipts resulting in lowered receipts that otherwise would have occurred. We can’t even know, as it’s impossible to know what would have happened had things been done differently, we can only guess.

Should the rich be punished and not get a tax hike? Why should the rich be punished? Should they be punished for contributing more to the economy than the poor? No certainly not.

Again – Strawman, as I never said they should be punished. You’re reading into my post things I didn’t say.

[Nick_Danger]

[quote]cremaster wrote:

[quote]Nick Danger wrote:
…What I said is:

“First, Reagan also took on debt to:
-reduce taxes for the rich
-squeeze the budget in the hopes that it’d lead to cutting social services”

Reagan did reduce taxes for the rich. I made no mention of what the trickle-down effects may or may not have been, no mention of who/what Reagan cared about, etc.
…[/quote]

Since you are such a stickler for the truth, you’ll have to admit that

Reagan cut did not ‘cut taxes for the rich’ he cut the TAX RATE.

(But, I feel this will be like pointing out a flaw to Ryan P.)
[/quote]

You’re right, I should have phrased it better than I did. Thank you for the correction (not sarcasm! ).

By some measures, total taxes paid by some of the ‘rich’ increased even tho the rate decreased.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics – one can find studies/numbers to support both sides of this argument.

[Cockney_Blue]

I have to wonder how many of the people going on about the corpsman thing or TelePrompters or notes on hands have ever had to give a speech in front of a large group.

Palin’s stupidity was in the hypocrisy, not in using notes.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I have to wonder how many of the people going on about the corpsman thing or TelePrompters or notes on hands have ever had to give a speech in front of a large group.[/quote]

I’m one of those people. Yes, I have spoken before large groups many times.[/quote]

How long were you rehearsing the speech before you gave it without notes or prompter? Remember that politicians often give multiple speeches in a day and often have last minute changes to those speeches. Naturally there are times where they are just reading and not actually processing the information, same thing happens to news readers. Doesn’t mean they are stupid.

[quote]

Palin’s stupidity was in the hypocrisy, not in using notes.[/quote]

Palin’s stupid for being hypocritical? You bloody well better offer an explanation for that gem.

By slating Obama for using a teleprompter whilst having notes written on her hand she gave an open goal to her detractors. That is pretty ill advised. Stupidly so in my opinion.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I have to wonder how many of the people going on about the corpsman thing or TelePrompters or notes on hands have ever had to give a speech in front of a large group.[/quote]
[/quote]
I’m one of those people. Yes, I have spoken before large groups many times.[quote]

[/quote]

How long were you rehearsing the speech before you gave it without notes or prompter? Remember that politicians often give multiple speeches in a day and often have last minute changes to those speeches. Naturally there are times where they are just reading and not actually processing the information, same thing happens to news readers. Doesn’t mean they are stupid.

Palin’s stupidity was in the hypocrisy, not in using notes.[/quote]

Palin’s stupid for being hypocritical? You bloody well better offer an explanation for that gem.

By slating Obama for using a teleprompter whilst having notes written on her hand she gave an open goal to her detractors. That is pretty ill advised. Stupidly so in my opinion.
[/quote]

Am I the only one that sees a constant reliance on a teleprompter for word for word speeches as entirely different from a few words scribbled on your palm? I honestly donâ??t see the hypocrisy. If those words had been written on a note card would you think differently about it? Is it just because it was on her palm that makes it magically hypocritical?

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I have to wonder how many of the people going on about the corpsman thing or TelePrompters or notes on hands have ever had to give a speech in front of a large group.[/quote]
[/quote]
I’m one of those people. Yes, I have spoken before large groups many times.[quote]

[/quote]

How long were you rehearsing the speech before you gave it without notes or prompter? Remember that politicians often give multiple speeches in a day and often have last minute changes to those speeches. Naturally there are times where they are just reading and not actually processing the information, same thing happens to news readers. Doesn’t mean they are stupid.

Palin’s stupidity was in the hypocrisy, not in using notes.[/quote]

Palin’s stupid for being hypocritical? You bloody well better offer an explanation for that gem.

By slating Obama for using a teleprompter whilst having notes written on her hand she gave an open goal to her detractors. That is pretty ill advised. Stupidly so in my opinion.
[/quote]

Am I the only one that sees a constant reliance on a teleprompter for word for word speeches as entirely different from a few words scribbled on your palm? I honestly donâ??t see the hypocrisy. If those words had been written on a note card would you think differently about it? Is it just because it was on her palm that makes it magically hypocritical? [/quote]

Everyone knows that politicians don’t write their own speeches and use teleprompters and notes. It really shouldn’t be an issue because it is the same from all sides.

There are far too many talking heads that make their living scrutinizing and ripping down, the annoying thing is that it distracts the discussions away from the lack of real ideas coming out from either side.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I have to wonder how many of the people going on about the corpsman thing or TelePrompters or notes on hands have ever had to give a speech in front of a large group.[/quote]
[/quote]
I’m one of those people. Yes, I have spoken before large groups many times.[quote]

[/quote]

How long were you rehearsing the speech before you gave it without notes or prompter? Remember that politicians often give multiple speeches in a day and often have last minute changes to those speeches. Naturally there are times where they are just reading and not actually processing the information, same thing happens to news readers. Doesn’t mean they are stupid.

Palin’s stupidity was in the hypocrisy, not in using notes.[/quote]

Palin’s stupid for being hypocritical? You bloody well better offer an explanation for that gem.

By slating Obama for using a teleprompter whilst having notes written on her hand she gave an open goal to her detractors. That is pretty ill advised. Stupidly so in my opinion.
[/quote]

Am I the only one that sees a constant reliance on a teleprompter for word for word speeches as entirely different from a few words scribbled on your palm? I honestly don�¢??t see the hypocrisy. If those words had been written on a note card would you think differently about it? Is it just because it was on her palm that makes it magically hypocritical? [/quote]

Everyone knows that politicians don’t write their own speeches and use teleprompters and notes. It really shouldn’t be an issue because it is the same from all sides.

There are far too many talking heads that make their living scrutinizing and ripping down, the annoying thing is that it distracts the discussions away from the lack of real ideas coming out from either side.[/quote]

What real ideas are those?

I completely disagree. I think no idea is generally much better than a terrible one. First do no harm.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I have to wonder how many of the people going on about the corpsman thing or TelePrompters or notes on hands have ever had to give a speech in front of a large group.[/quote]
[/quote]
I’m one of those people. Yes, I have spoken before large groups many times.[quote]

[/quote]

How long were you rehearsing the speech before you gave it without notes or prompter? Remember that politicians often give multiple speeches in a day and often have last minute changes to those speeches. Naturally there are times where they are just reading and not actually processing the information, same thing happens to news readers. Doesn’t mean they are stupid.

Palin’s stupidity was in the hypocrisy, not in using notes.[/quote]

Palin’s stupid for being hypocritical? You bloody well better offer an explanation for that gem.

By slating Obama for using a teleprompter whilst having notes written on her hand she gave an open goal to her detractors. That is pretty ill advised. Stupidly so in my opinion.

Am I the only one that sees a constant reliance on a teleprompter for word for word speeches as entirely different from a few words scribbled on your palm? I honestly don�¢??t see the hypocrisy. If those words had been written on a note card would you think differently about it? Is it just because it was on her palm that makes it magically hypocritical? [/quote]

Knowing Cock, he’ll fabricate some unequivocal notion how they are virtually the exact same thing.[/quote]

Knowing Push he will avoid the direct question and instead try to talk down to people and insult their masculinity.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I have to wonder how many of the people going on about the corpsman thing or TelePrompters or notes on hands have ever had to give a speech in front of a large group.[/quote]
[/quote]
I’m one of those people. Yes, I have spoken before large groups many times.[quote]

[/quote]

How long were you rehearsing the speech before you gave it without notes or prompter? Remember that politicians often give multiple speeches in a day and often have last minute changes to those speeches. Naturally there are times where they are just reading and not actually processing the information, same thing happens to news readers. Doesn’t mean they are stupid.

Palin’s stupidity was in the hypocrisy, not in using notes.[/quote]

Palin’s stupid for being hypocritical? You bloody well better offer an explanation for that gem.

By slating Obama for using a teleprompter whilst having notes written on her hand she gave an open goal to her detractors. That is pretty ill advised. Stupidly so in my opinion.
[/quote]

Am I the only one that sees a constant reliance on a teleprompter for word for word speeches as entirely different from a few words scribbled on your palm? I honestly don�?�¢??t see the hypocrisy. If those words had been written on a note card would you think differently about it? Is it just because it was on her palm that makes it magically hypocritical? [/quote]

Everyone knows that politicians don’t write their own speeches and use teleprompters and notes. It really shouldn’t be an issue because it is the same from all sides.

There are far too many talking heads that make their living scrutinizing and ripping down, the annoying thing is that it distracts the discussions away from the lack of real ideas coming out from either side.[/quote]

What real ideas are those?

I completely disagree. I think no idea is generally much better than a terrible one. First do no harm.[/quote]

I am not a politician, I am constantly coming up with creative solutions to problems within my business and areas of expertise.

If you are a politician I expect you to have some ideas. If you don’t, then don’t run.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Knowing Cock, he’ll fabricate some unequivocal notion how they are virtually the exact same thing.[/quote]

Knowing Push he will avoid the direct question and instead try to talk down to people and insult their masculinity.[/quote]

What is the direct question, nancy?[/quote]

How long were you rehearsing the speech before you gave it without notes or prompter?

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I have to wonder how many of the people going on about the corpsman thing or TelePrompters or notes on hands have ever had to give a speech in front of a large group.[/quote]
[/quote]
I’m one of those people. Yes, I have spoken before large groups many times.[quote]

[/quote]

How long were you rehearsing the speech before you gave it without notes or prompter? Remember that politicians often give multiple speeches in a day and often have last minute changes to those speeches. Naturally there are times where they are just reading and not actually processing the information, same thing happens to news readers. Doesn’t mean they are stupid.

Palin’s stupidity was in the hypocrisy, not in using notes.[/quote]

Palin’s stupid for being hypocritical? You bloody well better offer an explanation for that gem.

By slating Obama for using a teleprompter whilst having notes written on her hand she gave an open goal to her detractors. That is pretty ill advised. Stupidly so in my opinion.
[/quote]

Am I the only one that sees a constant reliance on a teleprompter for word for word speeches as entirely different from a few words scribbled on your palm? I honestly don�??�?�¢??t see the hypocrisy. If those words had been written on a note card would you think differently about it? Is it just because it was on her palm that makes it magically hypocritical? [/quote]

Everyone knows that politicians don’t write their own speeches and use teleprompters and notes. It really shouldn’t be an issue because it is the same from all sides.

There are far too many talking heads that make their living scrutinizing and ripping down, the annoying thing is that it distracts the discussions away from the lack of real ideas coming out from either side.[/quote]

What real ideas are those?

I completely disagree. I think no idea is generally much better than a terrible one. First do no harm.[/quote]

I am not a politician, I am constantly coming up with creative solutions to problems within my business and areas of expertise.

If you are a politician I expect you to have some ideas. If you don’t, then don’t run.[/quote]

That’s what I do too. However, I’m not sure what question you were answering, because it wasn’t mine. I wasn’t asking if they should have ideas, I’m asking what good ideas are being blocked?

Republican: “I have a shitty idea”
Democrat: “and I can make it worse”

Being pro-active is almost always a bad thing in today’s government. the more they do the more they screw up. I wish we could just take a mulligan on all the government “ideas” for the past few decades.

[Nick_Danger]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
the more they [Government, I’m assuming you’re referring to both sides in my reply, please to correct me if wrong] do the more they screw up. I wish we could just take a mulligan on all the government “ideas” for the past few decades.
[/quote]

Agreed. I have more faith that the gov’t (both sides) screws up things more than fix them. Health care, for example. We’re paying too much for too little, folks are paying for coverage for years then they’re dumped on irrelevant technicalities when they have claims, instead of implementing improvements insurers raise rates and drop the sickest, no real competition or free market, etc.

The health care bill that’s proposed is a mess, and likely to do more harm than good (I say ‘likely’ as we don’t really know what’s all in it, or how it’d be changed while being passed).

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]Nick Danger wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
the more they [Government, I’m assuming you’re referring to both sides in my reply, please to correct me if wrong] do the more they screw up. I wish we could just take a mulligan on all the government “ideas” for the past few decades.
[/quote]

Agreed. I have more faith that the gov’t (both sides) screws up things more than fix them. Health care, for example. We’re paying too much for too little, folks are paying for coverage for years then they’re dumped on irrelevant technicalities when they have claims, instead of implementing improvements insurers raise rates and drop the sickest, no real competition or free market, etc.

The health care bill that’s proposed is a mess, and likely to do more harm than good (I say ‘likely’ as we don’t really know what’s all in it, or how it’d be changed while being passed).
[/quote]

We’re on the same page.