Especially macro economics.
ah that sucks. I somehow managed to make it through the entire first year without my son getting sick. we’ve been super lucky.
I haven’t read much from zep, so I have no idea if I agree that he’s economically illiterate. Can’t comment on that.
I think there’s a lot of room for argument and disagreement as far as the economics go. You can absolutely find prominent economists who believe Sanders would move our economy in a better direction. Smart, well educated people. Macro economics is a far more murky subject in the current world economy than most folks want to admit. There are a lot of moving parts, and I think both sides dumb the argument down to a level that serves no one.
I also think Sanders’ political position gets misinterpreted far too often. Buzzwords, specifically ‘socialist’, are misleading. And Sanders is certainly largely at fault for his image problems in that regard. Sanders is a capitalist though, no doubt about it. It’s weird for me to hear, as an example, that having a minimum wage in the first place is not a socialist policy, but raising it by several dollars per hour suddenly IS socialist. That’s utter nonsense. It’s simply a disagreement on how much the cheapest labor in the country should cost, and to what degree the wealthiest folk share with the poorest. I certainly don’t think paying ANYONE 8 dollars an hour at a full time job is fair or reasonable. And I would never do it.
Anyway. Maybe I’ll spend some more time over here. I’m pretty sick of politics at the moment, but I’m sicker of responding to the pervasive idiocy in certain other forums.
Damn, this is a conversation I’d love to get sucked into! You should come over to the dark side more often, lol.
Real quick, a minimum wage is definitely a socialist policy, at least imo, whether it’s $1 or $15. My perspective is there should not be a federal minimum wage. It’s a state issue, imo.
Damn it, Luke is screaming…
yes…yes, so much yes.
Just wait and see how quickly automated fast food ordering kiosks become common if a buger flipper wants $15 an hour. But, actually I have no problem with large corporations like Wal-Mart and McDonald’s raising their minimum wages, IF they show large profits.
But how is a mom and pop store supposed to play by the same rules?
$15 an hour to work in a small operation with a razor sharp profit margin? Seems suspect to me. Oh wait!! That’s because that is WHAT MY BUSINESS IS…lol.
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that’s my point. You’re consistent, which is good. What I hear from other people is that raising the minimum wage makes him a socialist. That in itself is incorrect.
And we can definitely disagree on this point. There’s no middle ground here. No federal minimum wage would be crushing for too many people for me to think that’s a good idea. We know historically how that sort of thing works out. See early 20th century farming in the US.
And Lama and Push, some mom and pop stores would go out of business, some wouldn’t. I’m ok with that. I can barely afford to pay the salaries I do, but I do it anyway because it’s what I think is just and fair for the manual laborers who support me. I’d rather cut my own pay in half than pay wages that can’t reasonably support my employees. I can’t stomach the idea of paying someone 8 dollars an hour if I’m employing them 40 hours per week. Not given how hard they work for me. Others in my industry feel differently, and do pay those sorts of wages. My laborers bust their asses every day for me, and they deserve to be able to feed their families for the work they put in.
I could be one of those businesses. I’ve lost money the last 3 years. I’m still ok with it. If the economy will not support what I do, and I can’t properly support my employees, then I’m in the wrong business, or I’ve performed poorly in my business.
no, altruism is not the most effective tool for competing in business. My actions aren’t centered around personal financial gain. I’m qualified for other more lucrative careers.
‘don’t deserve 15 dollars’ is an opinion that I think I’ve effectively expressed that we disagree on.
I agree with your point about a burger king operator paying double the ‘going rate’ failing at business. That can be used to support my argument for a higher minimum wage. If the minimum wage is 15, then he’s no longer paying higher than the going rate, and he won’t go out of business.
Similarly, if the going rate for manual labor becomes 15 dollars, my pricing in my industry becomes more competitive. And that will be true of many mom and pop businesses. Pricing can be revised, and businesses are lost less often than I think you want to argue they would be.
You are correct, you should pay your employees what you think is fair market value. Why does the federal government need to set the price? The same business in San Fran has different operating costs than middle of nowhere Texas. If the business is paying their employees too low, the employees can go elsewhere.
A better question is, why is it $15 per hour? A “living wage” varies depending on where you are living. I say let the market decide, as it does with all other salaries.
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EXACTLY.
$15 an hour in Utah, is NOT the same as in L.A.
And why does a kid looking for a job, fresh out of high school…or in high school for that matter, deserve a “living wage”?
I’ve never really heard this answered. Working in fast food is not a career, it’s a job to teach somebody how to go to work.
The basic answer here is that I believe the market is too corrupt to do what we want it to do in a fair and equitable way. I think it’s beyond reparable the means you’re suggesting. You’re obviously right that a living wage varies from region to region. A federal minimum wage is just a base line. A state can always institute a higher minimum wage when appropriate.
Side note: I’m not in the middle of nowhere Texas, I’m in Dallas. But I get your point.
I don’t believe your predictions are accurate. That’s not how real world pricing works in a competitive market. The minimum wage is a couple dollars higher today than it was when I was a teenager, and there is a plethora of essential products (see grocery stores) with lower prices now than then. The market competition will still be strong with a higher minimum wage, in my opinion.
And you know what? If we institute a higher minimum wage, and the things I’ve said DON’T prove to be true, the minimum wage can be lowered again. It’s not as if these things must be permanent. I’d sure as shit like to see it tried though.