Sad State of Affairs

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]vroom wrote:
Okay, I see a lot of people saying “don’t respond”, but there is a different issue…

When the top twenty threads are all shit, then you aren’t going to dig down and find the threads that are worth responding to.

After looking at the top several, to see if there is useful conversation in them or not, and there isn’t, the game is over and it’s time to move on.

Just as in money, the bad drives out the good. The Internet has a way of sinking to the lowest common denominator if there are no imposed quality metrics.[/quote]

What you fail to understand, Vroom, is that on an internet forum the threads that are on the top are the ones that people are most interested. The fact that my threads tend to stay on the top even when I don’t post for a day or two, just tells you that the marketplace finds this an interesting topic for discussion or debate.

Your diatribes against these make as much sense as people bemoning T.V. shows like “Survivor,” or “American Idol,” while at the same time tuning in to watch every week.

People on a forums like T-Nation vote with their responses. If you have a thread to start, then start one.

Take care.

82

[quote]pookie wrote:
vroom wrote:
When the top twenty threads are all shit, then you aren’t going to dig down and find the threads that are worth responding to.

After looking at the top several, to see if there is useful conversation in them or not, and there isn’t, the game is over and it’s time to move on.

Why not start one, or a few, of your own threads then? “On which side of my thinking tree should I sit?” or similar…[/quote]

Pookie – we are on the same wavelength lately. We gotta stop! :slight_smile:

83

[quote]rainjack wrote:
And…I just gotta laugh at “imposed quality metrics”. Good sounding words that kinda mean censorship if taken to the extreme.[/quote]

Yeah, but it’s true. Just about any popular forum on the planet has some type of editorial process…

84

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
What you fail to understand, Vroom, is that on an internet forum the threads that are on the top are the ones that people are most interested. [/quote]

LOL. Yeah, I’m really inexperienced with this Internet stuff. Good thing you are around to help me out… freaking idiot.

The fact that your responses border on trolling, which entices plenty of return responses, doesn’t mean the thread is of any quality or that people are “voting” for it.

85

[quote]pookie wrote:
Why not start one, or a few, of your own threads then? “On which side of my thinking tree should I sit?” or similar…[/quote]

Because I’m not an attention whore who intentially starts threads on topics that I don’t think other people will be interested in discussing?

86

[quote]vroom wrote:
Because I’m not an attention whore who intentially starts threads on topics that I don’t think other people will be interested in discussing?[/quote]

There’s a difference between starting dumb threads to get attention and starting interesting ones. Even so, some of the “dumb” threads often develop interesting conversations; it mostly depends on the participants.

As for other people not being interested in discussing a topic, you can’t really know until you’ve tried, right? If it doesn’t interest anyone, it’ll fall down the page quick enough, no harm done, except to your ego. :slight_smile:

Hell, there’s a thread about flooding your ass that’s gone over three pages now, who would’ve tought?

87

[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
What you fail to understand, Vroom, is that on an internet forum the threads that are on the top are the ones that people are most interested.

LOL. Yeah, I’m really inexperienced with this Internet stuff. Good thing you are around to help me out… freaking idiot.

The fact that your responses border on trolling, which entices plenty of return responses, doesn’t mean the thread is of any quality or that people are “voting” for it.[/quote]

Your insults aside, you didn’t address my thesis which I believe has merit. You can hem and haw all you wish and express superiority in your answers to me (e.g. “Good thing you are around to help me out…”) but my point was a good one and you need to answer it.

If you do indeed “know all about this internet stuff,” then why do you post as if you don’t understand.

If I don’t like something on the radio or if I find something on radio that is offensive to me, I have the power of the “off” button. I don’t have the right to tell others not to tune in, although I have the right to suggest it, nor to tell the station to get rid of it. If the marketplace doesn’t want something, it will die of its own accord.

You have a problem with these types of threads and when all else fails, you try the “troll angle,” which is ridiculous to use against me because it simply doesn’t fit.

Vroom, get over yourself, your importance, and most of all stop posting in the very threads that you say should’t be here in the first place. It doesn’t make sense and it is quite hypocritical.

Take care!

88

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I used to love debate in this forum. It was damn near inspiring to actually debate some topics in depth. Sure, the occasional troll or JeffR would fuck things up for a little while, but eventually, they tired themselves out or forgot to take their meds and lost the ability to type their password so everything returned to normal.

That was how things used to be. BB would post something completely one sided but avoid actually giving his own personal opinion. He would then follow it with 5,000 links and page after page of blogs and then pretend these were facts without bias.

Vroom would ask “why”, Rainjack would call him a few down home southern names often used to describe skunks and rats. Thunderbolt would pretend as if he had “authority” and call out a few people. I would simply be as nice as possible, debate would take off for pages and then we would do it again.

But now, now we have Steveo, Headhunter and the wake of destruction left by each. I avoid this entire forum like the plague now and I am sure I am not alone. This web site even removed the Political forum from the list of recently discussed topics. It has now been dumped into the internet guest room closet along with things we don’t want the newcomers to actually know we discuss.

All in all, this forum now sucks major donkey ass.

Will there be two or three more pseudo-religious threads tomorrow telling people they will burn and that acting like an ass and ramming your personal beliefs down everyone’s throats is the only way to save yourself? What will you do about your dumbassery?

Oh well, one and a half years until the next election. Maybe things will return to normal by then. Until then, I think I even wasted my time typing this in this forum.[/quote]

You see Pro, that’s the rub with a political forum, people are not always going to post things that you agree with or that you think add value. And by definition, posting on a forum is trying to push your opinion on someone else. If that weren’t the case then you wouldn’t post at all.

So most all of your objections are related to the process of free debate.

Perhaps the topics now are less political in nature, but most are still controversial, and hence debatable.

So perhaps it’s not that the form has changed as much as you are getting tired of people not see you as the Internet god you once were?

89

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
You see Pro, that’s the rub with a political forum, people are not always going to post things that you agree with or that you think add value. And by definition, posting on a forum is trying to push your opinion on someone else. If that weren’t the case then you wouldn’t post at all.

So most all of your objections are related to the process of free debate.

Perhaps the topics now are less political in nature, but most are still controversial, and hence debatable.

So perhaps it’s not that the form has changed as much as you are getting tired of people not see you as the Internet god you once were?

[/quote]

I think your post here says much more about you than it does me.

90

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
You see Pro, that’s the rub with a political forum, people are not always going to post things that you agree with or that you think add value. And by definition, posting on a forum is trying to push your opinion on someone else. If that weren’t the case then you wouldn’t post at all.

So most all of your objections are related to the process of free debate.

Perhaps the topics now are less political in nature, but most are still controversial, and hence debatable.

So perhaps it’s not that the form has changed as much as you are getting tired of people not see you as the Internet god you once were?

I think your post here says much more about you than it does me.[/quote]

Obviously, because it is my opinion.

91

i am tired of political debate PERIOD. nobody is willing to have an honest discussion about anything. everybody has already made up there minds and nobody wants to hear anything that opposes their political dogma. people seek out information that supports there beliefs, and ignores anything else.

i especially hate debating with liberals(in person) as they tend just to shout you down. i guess when you do not believe in any higher power(God) then politics becomes your religion and you get fanatical about it.

92

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
i am tired of political debate PERIOD. nobody is willing to have an honest discussion about anything. everybody has already made up there minds and nobody wants to hear anything that opposes their political dogma. people seek out information that supports there beliefs, and ignores anything else.

i especially hate debating with liberals(in person) as they tend just to shout you down. i guess when you do not believe in any higher power(God) then politics becomes your religion and you get fanatical about it. [/quote]

This type of debate is not limited to liberals, although I have had some pretty bad experiences with liberals who argue solely from a position of emotion and tend to think that yelling louder equals a better argument.

The religous right can be just as fanatical IMHO.

Bottom line is, fanaticism is fanaticism. The religous right drives me absolutely crazy sometimes as I’ve had the same experiences with them.

93

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
heavythrower wrote:
i am tired of political debate PERIOD. nobody is willing to have an honest discussion about anything. everybody has already made up there minds and nobody wants to hear anything that opposes their political dogma. people seek out information that supports there beliefs, and ignores anything else.

i especially hate debating with liberals(in person) as they tend just to shout you down. i guess when you do not believe in any higher power(God) then politics becomes your religion and you get fanatical about it.

This type of debate is not limited to liberals, although I have had some pretty bad experiences with liberals who argue solely from a position of emotion and tend to think that yelling louder equals a better argument.

The religous right can be just as fanatical IMHO.

Bottom line is, fanaticism is fanaticism. The religous right drives me absolutely crazy sometimes as I’ve had the same experiences with them.
[/quote]

i do not doubt that you have had that experience. for me, working in northern California and being a conservative from the south, you can imagine the conversations i have had with the Berkley-ites…LOL

BTW, living in the south for 30 years, i grew to despise bible thumping religious fundamentalists, and ignorant red-necks, but i have heard some of the most vile and insulting venom spewing from so called “educated and enlightened” liberals here in the bay area.

94

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
i do not doubt that you have had that experience. for me, working in northern California and being a conservative from the south, you can imagine the conversations i have had with the Berkley-ites…LOL[/quote]

I can imagineshudder and I imagine those were tough “debates” :-]

I read a book called “Intellectual Morons” that talks alot about these types. I think my football coach would slap them in the back of the head and say “your thinking too much!”

[quote]
BTW, living in the south for 30 years, i grew to despise bible thumping religious fundamentalists, and ignorant red-necks, but i have heard some of the most vile and insulting venom spewing from so called “educated and enlightened” liberals here in the bay area. [/quote]

I know that it upsets some when I say this, but I try not to let “religion” get in the way of my faith. I have a different aproach to faith that works for me, but that doesn’t sit well with some religious folks. Especially a VERY catholic mother and family :-]

I just don’t like the way that alot of religions push their own beliefs on others.

It’s the bible thumpers in the GOP who usually make me wonder if I belong in the libertarian party.

95

[quote]vroom wrote:
rainjack wrote:
And…I just gotta laugh at “imposed quality metrics”. Good sounding words that kinda mean censorship if taken to the extreme.

Yeah, but it’s true. Just about any popular forum on the planet has some type of editorial process…[/quote]

I wonder if the following would be feasible?

Biotest installs thread-organizing software that puts the threads in order in the “Politics” and “Get a Life” forums according to an alternating two-tier system. The moderators flag each thread as passing or failing “quality metrics”.

Then, if the twenty most-recently posted-on threads fail: instead of being the first twenty threads you see, the “bad” threads would be 2nd, 4th, 6th, … , 40th; while 1st, 3rd, 5th, … , 39th would be the twenty most-recently posted-on “good” threads. Every other slot would be reserved for a thread that passes the quality metrics according to the judgement of the moderators, down to the point where there are no more such threads.

Assuming that the moderators would not usually flag “crap” threads as “good”: this would eliminate the phenomenon of the first page or two being entirely filled with “crap” threads, while still giving them plenty of space.

96

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
You see Pro, that’s the rub with a political forum, people are not always going to post things that you agree with or that you think add value. And by definition, posting on a forum is trying to push your opinion on someone else. If that weren’t the case then you wouldn’t post at all.

So most all of your objections are related to the process of free debate.

Perhaps the topics now are less political in nature, but most are still controversial, and hence debatable.

So perhaps it’s not that the form has changed as much as you are getting tired of people not see you as the Internet god you once were?

I think your post here says much more about you than it does me.[/quote]

Actually, I think Lorisco hit the proverbial nail on the head, Prof.

97

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:

Actually, I think Lorisco hit the proverbial nail on the head, Prof.
[/quote]

LOL. Your endorsement now confirms that I was right to begin with.

98

Steveo,

Something you fail to understand is that there is a big difference between having a discussion and preaching to someone.

In general, most people posting in the politics forum are not representing something else. They do not have an external motivation. They represent a somewhat unique point of view and share it with us.

When it comes to mainstream religion, you often (though sometimes you will actually discuss issues - which is much more interesting) are just posting to follow your need to prosyletize.

So, while it is not commercial, you are still externally motivated, which changes the nature of your posts. Honestly, if you have half a brain you’ll see that I’m willing to “discuss” religion, but I’m not interested in being preached to, which is not a discussion.

Again, consider people with financial motivation, trying to post links to affiliate sites and so forth. This is frowned on and can quickly drown out discussion as everyone tries to spam their commercial messages.

Now, just because your message is for religious gain, instead of commercial gain, doesn’t mean that it can’t have the same effect. Combined with your at times trollish style, you personally can have a chilling effect on decent conversation. I also suspect you don’t give a shit, as you feel your message is more important than any other message.

As much as you may like to cry and hide behind the concept of persecution, that is not the issue.

You don’t get a free pass to be an asshole just because you are trying to shroud yourself in the robes of Christianity instead of spammy commercialism. The impact is the same. You are externally motivated to push, push and push your message ad nauseam.

Show some love for your fellow man when he expresses the desire to find respite from your message, because you are not the only person on the planet pushing it at us. It is not a unique point of view that we don’t have access to on a daily basis.

99

That was a burning reproach, Vroom. Take a bow.

100

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
That was a burning reproach, Vroom. Take a bow.[/quote]

Agreed… ouch. I hope he can still have babies.