Russian President

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Otep wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
So it doesn’t look like Obama is rolling over for the Russkies…

It looks like he is weasel wording it. Not good.

Looks like he’s standing up without necessarily sparking a confrontation. The talk is soft, and it seems as though any time he needs a big stick he can declare the military technology ‘workable’.

The question is whether or not he’ll be able to see accurately when that time comes.[/quote]

He is weasel wording it and the Russians (and the world) will interpret it as backing down. Not good.

82

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
pushharder wrote:

Yeah, you’re right, they’ve never done it before. Why would they start now?

Gdollars has an explainable school girl crush on all things Russian - he can’t be convinced that Russia has any designs outside of peace, harmony, and international goodwill.
[/quote]

You’re getting lazy around here, tossing out baseless one-liners. I’ve never said anything like that. I don’t even have the crush on Putin that many posters here can claim.

I do think it’s particularly idiotic, even for this administration, to needlessly and ceaselessly antagonize a country that is no threat to us, and whose cooperation we could really use against Islamic terrorism. Especially given the issue of loose nukes. I’m not sure why it makes any sense to fund and encourage pissant semi-authoritarian states in Russia’s backyard. I don’t have to have any special empathy for Russia to see why that would piss them off. Do you have a real argument otherwise?

83

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:

(text)[/quote]

You said:

And when and why would Russia be “conquering” Eastern Europe? They had enough trouble in Chechnya over the past decade. You may have noticed in Georgia that they rolled in and rolled out.

When someone says “why, ole Russia wouldn’t bother anyone!” - in light of painfully obvious information to the contrary w/r/t posturing towards Europe - is either woefully ignorant or an apologist.

Take it as a compliment that I don’t think you are the former.

84

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
pushharder wrote:

Yeah, you’re right, they’ve never done it before. Why would they start now?

Gdollars has an explainable school girl crush on all things Russian - he can’t be convinced that Russia has any designs outside of peace, harmony, and international goodwill.

You’re getting lazy around here, tossing out baseless one-liners. I’ve never said anything like that. I don’t even have the crush on Putin that many posters here can claim.

I do think it’s particularly idiotic, even for this administration, to needlessly and ceaselessly antagonize a country that is no threat to us, and whose cooperation we could really use against Islamic terrorism. Especially given the issue of loose nukes. I’m not sure why it makes any sense to fund and encourage pissant semi-authoritarian states in Russia’s backyard. I don’t have to have any special empathy for Russia to see why that would piss them off. Do you have a real argument otherwise?[/quote]

Perhaps they could ask us for billions of dollars to “secure” their “loose” nukes.

85

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Sloth wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Failure to stand firm will encourage rogue countries the world over to act.

I bet they see our actions in the same light. They have to stand firm. Then we get into another missile crisis, neither side backing down, other nations in the region yelling at us and them to stop the penis waving contest, and missiles/missile defense on both sides will be withdrawn to cool down the heated situation, leading us back to square one. How about stop putting ourselves into dangerous positions where we have to stand firm for no other reason than to save face?

What is your solution? Be specific.

Don’t place missile defense in a location that excites the Russian Regime’s own fears? Why are we placing ourselves between Iran/Russian and Europe. Europe can siphon money off it’s welfare programs if it needs the extra defense. We don’t need to play Paladin all over the world, looking for monsters to slay, and getting ourselves into tense situations where then we supposedly can never backdown. Secure OUR borders, and give the American people thier peace dividend. It’s long overdue.

That philosophy went out hundreds of years ago. Countries that try to hide behind their own borders get squashed.[/quote]

Bull…shit. This is not Germany or France. Do you realize that after the War of 1812, it became widely acknowledged that a European power would never again be able to invade this country by land or sea? The Monroe Doctrine was a direct outgrowth of this realization.

Please explain to me how America would get squashed if, say, all foreign troops were recalled next week.

This is sheer paranoia. I tell you, there is NOTHING that can happen to this country in the way of a military attack. We are surrounded by two oceans. We have the capability to obliterate anyone who threatens us.

Non-interventionism works. In 1850 and 2050.

Harry Browne offered this great advice: Drastically cut the military budget, bring the troops home from around the world, and put what’s left of it into border defense and research for a working missile defense shield. Within a few years, it will be up and running, and this country will never again have anything to fear from any other state in the world. A true national defense, rather than a national offense.

86

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Sloth wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Failure to stand firm will encourage rogue countries the world over to act.

I bet they see our actions in the same light. They have to stand firm. Then we get into another missile crisis, neither side backing down, other nations in the region yelling at us and them to stop the penis waving contest, and missiles/missile defense on both sides will be withdrawn to cool down the heated situation, leading us back to square one. How about stop putting ourselves into dangerous positions where we have to stand firm for no other reason than to save face?

What is your solution? Be specific.

Don’t place missile defense in a location that excites the Russian Regime’s own fears? Why are we placing ourselves between Iran/Russian and Europe. Europe can siphon money off it’s welfare programs if it needs the extra defense. We don’t need to play Paladin all over the world, looking for monsters to slay, and getting ourselves into tense situations where then we supposedly can never backdown. Secure OUR borders, and give the American people thier peace dividend. It’s long overdue.

That philosophy went out hundreds of years ago. Countries that try to hide behind their own borders get squashed.

Bull…shit. This is not Germany or France. Do you realize that after the War of 1812, it became widely acknowledged that a European power would never again be able to invade this country by land or sea? The Monroe Doctrine was a direct outgrowth of this realization.

Please explain to me how America would get squashed if, say, all foreign troops were recalled next week.

This is sheer paranoia. I tell you, there is NOTHING that can happen to this country in the way of a military attack. We are surrounded by two oceans. We have the capability to obliterate anyone who threatens us.

Non-interventionism works. In 1850 and 2050.

Harry Browne offered this great advice: Drastically cut the military budget, bring the troops home from around the world, and put what’s left of it into border defense and research for a working missile defense shield. Within a few years, it will be up and running, and this country will never again have anything to fear from any other state in the world. A true national defense, rather than a national offense.[/quote]

Dead wrong.

87

I’m sorry, I didn’t read the whole thread, but ya know what? Screw the Russians.

Tell them the missiles are in Europe to defend against Iranian nukes.

Tell them the missiles are not aimed at Russia. Let them know if they aim missiles into Poland, we will retaliate by aiming missiles back at them.

Those missiles will stay there as long as they continue to help Iran with their nuclear program.

And if they do not, we can soround them with missiles in everyone of their breakaway provinces who are now our allies.

They don’t like this? Too freaking bad. I don’t like nuclear bombers in Venezuela and Cuba either.

They want this bs to stop? then get the hell out of our hemisphere and stop helping Iran also.

sorry, I guess it’s old pent up cold war anger.

88

…if i had to choose the USA or Russia, i’d go for Russia. At least with russians you know what you get…

89

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…if i had to choose the USA or Russia, i’d go for Russia. At least with russians you know what you get…[/quote]

agreed

92

[quote]pushharder wrote:
orion wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…if i had to choose the USA or Russia, i’d go for Russia. At least with russians you know what you get…

agreed

Betcha your pappy felt differently when the Bear was shuffling through your neck of the woods during the Cold War.[/quote]

No, I think he was pretty sure what he would get from the Russians.

93

…how the two nations ‘sell’ their ideologies is different, but the goal is the same for both. I do think that because the US has been far better at public relations than the russians, they’ve won the aura of ‘good guy’ but that doesn’t mean that they actually áre the good guys. The only ones still believing that are the gullible americans themselves…

94

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I’m sorry, I didn’t read the whole thread, but ya know what? Screw the Russians.

Tell them the missiles are in Europe to defend against Iranian nukes.

Tell them the missiles are not aimed at Russia. Let them know if they aim missiles into Poland, we will retaliate by aiming missiles back at them.

Those missiles will stay there as long as they continue to help Iran with their nuclear program.

And if they do not, we can soround them with missiles in everyone of their breakaway provinces who are now our allies.

They don’t like this? Too freaking bad. I don’t like nuclear bombers in Venezuela and Cuba either.

They want this bs to stop? then get the hell out of our hemisphere and stop helping Iran also.

sorry, I guess it’s old pent up cold war anger.[/quote]

I wouldn’t be so quick to play a game of chicken. Not when we can’t secure Afghanistan with NATO’s help. If third-worlders kick our ass…

95

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…how the two nations ‘sell’ their ideologies is different, but the goal is the same for both. I do think that because the US has been far better at public relations than the russians, they’ve won the aura of ‘good guy’ but that doesn’t mean that they’re actually áre the good guys. The only ones still believing that are the gullible americans themselves…[/quote]

idiotic

96

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I wouldn’t be so quick to play a game of chicken. Not when we can’t secure Afghanistan with NATO’s help. If third-worlders kick our ass…[/quote]

The Russians couldn’t secure Afghanistan. Third worlders kicked their ass as well.

And they were stronger back then.

97

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…how the two nations ‘sell’ their ideologies is different, but the goal is the same for both. I do think that because the US has been far better at public relations than the russians, they’ve won the aura of ‘good guy’ but that doesn’t mean that they’re actually áre the good guys. The only ones still believing that are the gullible americans themselves…

idiotic[/quote]

Yeah, that’s why Eastern European countries are lining up to join Nato and the West, while people are dying to sneek into America.

Anyone sneeking into Russia? They had to build walls to keep their people in.

98

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I wouldn’t be so quick to play a game of chicken. Not when we can’t secure Afghanistan with NATO’s help. If third-worlders kick our ass…

The Russians couldn’t secure Afghanistan. Third worlders kicked their ass as well.

And they were stronger back then.[/quote]

Right, but now we’re in Afghanistan and Iraq. And, we’re bowing up our chest at Iran. But, yeah, we need another crises. The people are weary. They’re owed a period of peace, and a focus on our domestic woes.

100

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I wouldn’t be so quick to play a game of chicken. Not when we can’t secure Afghanistan with NATO’s help. If third-worlders kick our ass…

The Russians couldn’t secure Afghanistan. Third worlders kicked their ass as well.

And they were stronger back then.

Right, but now we’re in Afghanistan and Iraq. And, we’re bowing up our chest at Iran. But, yeah, we need another crises. The people are weary. They’re owed a period of peace, and a focus on our domestic woes.[/quote]

Yes, Sloth, I am not saying to go to war with Russia. I am merely saying that we should not back down. If we armed their satellite nations, how would it hurt our economy?