Keep simping for your man-crush Putin.
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@punnyguy Did we call that one or what? Has he ever explained this alternative reality where going along with his neurotic policy ideas would have prevented the deaths that occurred?
@loppar Thatâs a lot of words to say what I summed up earlier. Projection, perhaps?
âWhat you need to understand is that they (meaning the pro-mandate, pro-lockdown, pro-camp, pro-two-tier society people like @loppar) may have been wrong about everything that they were saying, but they firmly believe that they were wrong for the right reasons.â
I can stand by every word I wrote during the pandemic. I still hold the same basic position, even as the Stand With Ukraine folks here in the USA are seemingly gearing up for a new round of COVID measures.
I am pro-vaccine development and pro-medical research
I am anti-lockdown
I am anti-mandate
I am anti-camp
Here are the receipts for my policy positions at the time, along with your unhinged rantings about American conservatives which are, as Iâve helpfully pointed out, very similar to your unhinged rantings in this thread. I found my positions then, as I do now, to be in the broad interests of the American society I live in.
I found your positions then, as I do now, to be against the broad interests of the American society I live in. I have no interest in funding a never-ending bloodbath in Ukraine, or anywhere. Let alone sending my son over there to die in the same part of the world my grandparents fled. It is time for peace talks.
We can always hop in the wayback machine to see exactly what we both said two years ago.
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I see a lot of young people in favor of helping Ukraine. I donât know how you came to this idea itâs a generational thing.
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So can I.
Edit: During a quick search, I was able to find a good example of the seriousness with which I treated COVID-19, 19.1, 19.2, 19.3, 19.4, etc.(what round of vaccination are we on now, anyhow?);
Got some more:
That âhidden replyâ on one of those is @H_factor because, as he got increasingly crazy about the Rona I realized that heâd previously admitted to having some problems âŠand I realized it wasnât worth reading and fighting the temptation to respond to his posts.
Are tailors not kosher or something?
This is childish, but is to be expected. Not everything revolves around your culture wars and dumb petulant contrarianism. âWell, the libs are for Ukraine so I have to be against it to make them angryâ.
Well, thereâs this guy Mitt Romney who vehemently disagrees with this, but whoâs he to know whatâs in Americaâs interest.
Donât worry. Neither you nor son will be even be called to fight a foreign wars (unless he enlists of course). You can LARP with your guns and ostensibly prepare for the civil unrest that will never happen knowing full well that youâll never ever have to fire a shot in anger
Yes, and I fully stand with what I said.
The world doesnât work that way. Itâs not a kindergarten where you can wish away bad things just because theyâre affecting your feelings.
A nation of men and women decided that they wonât let be biologically exterminated without putting up a hell of a fight. Now, this decision to fight for oneâs liberty or die trying may be incomprehensible to you personally (ironic considering all the 2A/incoming liberal tyranny bitching throughout the years) but theyâre commited to this course of action.
As at the moment Russia has not publicly walked back their pledge to take over Ukraine and exterminate the ânationalist elementâ (which per Russian count is now in the millions as Dr. Snyder succintly put) thereâs nothing to negotiate about, and Ukrainians are sure as hell not going to surrender.
SoâŠthere was a pandemic, 1,1 million Americans died and you took the time to pull up links showing that you were a dumb jerk the entire time? And you think that itâs a flex of some sort? Thatâs really sad.
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I am sure that you do.
Weave whatever broad narrative you wish. As you know, facts are not necessary to support your hyper-emotional storytelling about Americans, particularly American conservatives. I find it refreshing when someone like you comes out and says.
Put them out of work
Make them in stay in their homes
Donât let them participate in society
While also holding out your hand and saying âSend hundreds of billions overseas, you stupid and selfish Americans.â
It takes a special blend of ignorance and confidence to spout the opinions you do in the way that you do it.
Meanwhile, you cannot seem to answer some fairly straightforward questions about this conflict.
What is the goal?
How can it be achieved?
At what cost?
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Well stated. I feel as if Iâm in a nightmare, where I keep screaming âtheyâre manipulating us!â but everyone else is too set on whatever hot button has been pushed to care. This is equally true on the left.
Very Emperorâs New Clothes, and enormously distressing.
That said, you are replying to @twojarslave, who I trust to have thought through his positions and who I often look to to explain the far rightâs thought processes. My husband largely shares his views but is not able to articulate them as clearly. Generally when something is non-politicized, I agree with twojar to a large extent.
@loppar, can you remind me where you live? I know Iâve seen it mentioned along and along, but donât remember.
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Clear Ukraine of hostile russians.
By killing them.
Why do you keep asking that? Is it supposed to be some sort of âgotcha!â?
Its like this- Putin ordered an invasion of Ukrain. So the ruskis lined up all of their shit and one day said Go!
Then they (russians) drove in and started the mass killing of the population, striking hospitals and necessary non-military infrastructure along with dense population centers.
Now the Ukrainians have to kill them to make them go away.
What arenât you getting about that?
(See? Theres my gotcha too!)
-
What donât you get about that?
-
Why the fuck not?
If you can answer those two questions to my satisfaction (fat chance), Iâll move the goalpost and change the subject to something I still think Iâm right about.
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If youâre interested, check out this absolutely valid, intelligent scientist and his thoughts on covid, especially his policy recommendations. Apparently, he got black listed by social media due to govât âinfluenceâ, and his thoughts and ideas became very difficult to find.
:
Iirc, he was one of the leaders of the Great Barrington declaration, which was a lot more âcorrectâ than anything âofficial govâtâ sources were telling the people. These scientists were deemed a âmassive media-political-grifter complexâ by sheeple that lacked a mirrorâŠdue to the fact that obvious crazies also linked themselves to the GB declaration.
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To be clear, you believe pushing Russia out of Ukraine should be the strategic goal of the USA, not simply Ukraine?
Assuming the answer is âyesâ, what sort of limitations should there be on our support?
Given the limited gains of 2023, it seems clear that the massive support weâve given has produced a stalemate. With many dead and many more grievously wounded.
To what end should Americans support Ukraine?
To the last Ukrainian?
To the last American middle class household?
Or victory at all costs, with no limits on American support?
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A huge irony here is that the richest and most powerful grifters in the US are in the govât, running things, and dictating the policies that people are arguing about in this thread.
examples: Biden, Pelosi, Clinton, ObamaâŠ
Add: oops, Biden is not that rich, because heâs too stupid and too much of a hack to leverage his grifting in optimal fashion
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The strategic goal of Ukraine. If it were our goal as a nation we would be there in full force fighting instead of providing weapons and support.
Sorry man. It just doesnt work like that.
See, This is the part where you refuse to accept anything that may contradict your assessment, even after admitting that you havenât been following it and donât know shit about it.
That, and Ive seen this before. Somebody from management goes on a tear saying âlook at all this money weâre spending! I wanna see results!â.
So that weâre clear- I donât care how much we spend on this. Its barely a droplet of mist compared to what we spent in the last century on stopping the spread of communism and the nuclear arms race. And narry a drop in the bucket of our annual military budget.
The only limit Iâd place is on troops. There are already some of our guys there for training, support, and leading some operations. Thats about as much as Iâd agree to.
This contradicts your later suggestion that the only limit to our support is sending our troops to fight. When there is no limit on duration, no limit in the type of weapons and no limit in the funding, I hear that we should simply go along with whatever this administration suggests we do in perpetuity. To me that means that we absolutely have the same strategic goal as Ukraine.
Going along with whatever this administration suggests we do has not produced a good pattern of results, when their policies are taken as a whole.
In summary, is it fair to say that you believe the fighting should continue for as long as it takes, funded and supplied by Americans, as long as Americans arenât doing the fighting?
Nope. If Putin ordered a withdrawl or the russian troops just plain quit or what ever, I would be perfectly happy with that. Actually moreso that than both sides gutting it out to a bitter end.
Of course Russian surrender/withdrawal would be ideal and would fulfill the strategic goal you outlined.
With that said, would you agree I gave an accurate description of your opinion on the USAâs Ukraine policy?
I think we should arm Ukraine as much as possible, nukes included. That way we can legitimately be fearful when it inevitably turns against us(and, likely, reunites with Russia). Look at all the shit we were able to change after 9/11. Just imagine what we could accomplish when faced with an adversary we REALLY supplied!
You must not know any Ukrainians. And what does reunite mean? They were never united. It was an arranged marriage by Russian commie mass murderers.