ALDurr, you’re my hero! Seriously those were great posts! Even though I woudn’t agree with Pat Buchanan on any domestic issues, I think his views on the war are right on the money.
Al
You are a prodigous “cut and paster”. Any thoughts on the articles you have posted. Perhaps a better idea?
I think Biotest’s Strong Words posts have been right on the money lately. I particularly liked today’s.
“A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.”
Bertrand de Jouvenel
Let’s hope the hate that many of you have for the administration does not impede it’s important work.
[quote]hedo wrote:
I think Biotest’s Strong Words posts have been right on the money lately. I particularly liked today’s.
“A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.”
Bertrand de Jouvenel
Let’s hope the hate that many of you have for the administration does not impede it’s important work.
[/quote]
Wow, now THAT’s irony.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Al
You are a prodigous “cut and paster”. Any thoughts on the articles you have posted. Perhaps a better idea?
I think Biotest’s Strong Words posts have been right on the money lately. I particularly liked today’s.
“A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.”
Bertrand de Jouvenel
Let’s hope the hate that many of you have for the administration does not impede it’s important work.
[/quote]
So Hedo, a “cut and paster” is fine when they are pasting your beliefs, but critisized when they differ from your’s? Let’s hope the hate you have for America doesn’t impede its healing. The quote about the sheep is right… the election proved that!
Irony-try and define that and actually make sense. Perhaps the estrogen site may have a quote that better suits you today.
Elk-
Who and what the fuck are you talking about? The man made 1/2 doz. posts today all cut and paste, with little or no comment. I asked if he had a better idea. You certainly never seem too.
Hate America?..man you are out to lunch.
Hedo,
Did you miss the point that the sheep are the people that blindly trust whatever the government says – such that the government may take advantage of them?
Perhaps you are looking at it some other way?
As for doing the cut and paste thing, some people do a lot of that around here. I’d agree that I’m more interested in direct opinions, but you’ll have to criticize those on both the left and the right if you want to start complaining about “cut and pastitus”.
Heh, slow down man. It’s Christmas!
[quote]hedo wrote:
Irony-try and define that and actually make sense. Perhaps the estrogen site may have a quote that better suits you today.
Elk-
Who and what the fuck are you talking about? The man made 1/2 doz. posts today all cut and paste, with little or no comment. I asked if he had a better idea. You certainly never seem too.
Hate America?..man you are out to lunch. [/quote]
I don’t believe you hate America the comment was made in reference to your hate comment and how ridiculous it was. The paste comment was made because you have regularly had kudos for someone like minded who pretty much does the same thing. That is what the fuck I was talking about!
Vroom
Good advice man.
Oh God! I just thanked a liberal!!!
Have a good holiday. Looking forward to a lot of issues to argue about in 05.
Something tells me we will have no shortage.
[quote]hedo wrote:
The man made 1/2 doz. posts today all cut and paste, with little or no comment. [/quote]
Hedo,
Lighten up, man! I did the cut and paste thing without interjecting any personal comments (other than just jokingly) for a reason. I wanted people to read it and not have me color their opinions. I thought they were some interesting articles that I wanted to share and perhaps have a discussion afterwards. I didn’t realize that I was violating some protocol on the message boards.
However, if you had bothered to look before I cut and pasted anything on this particular thread, you will see that I did respond to Zeb’s comments about Rummy.
Like vroom said, it’s Christmas time. Relax!
[quote]hedo wrote:
Irony-try and define that and actually make sense. Perhaps the estrogen site may have a quote that better suits you today.
[/quote]
“A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.”
Sorry hedo, if you can’t see the irony in you (or zebbilina, jeffy, rainman, etc. for that matter) using that quote then it would be a complete waste of my time to try and explain it. I personally see that “Strong Words” as a direct slap-in-the-face for all the bush sheep on this forum. But that’s just me.
Baaaaa, hedo.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Odd, some of you blame Rumsfeld for every possible mishap. Ask yourselves, what is war? An unpredictable constantly changing series of events.
Who is the General on the ground in Iraq? Who are the other sector commanders? To hold one man totally responsible for every possible act seems not only inaccurate, but petty as well.
[/quote]
I’m with you on this one. I believe there are a set of people that have been overzealous in assigning blame to Rummy. That does not mean he is without blame. Sure he shouldn’t be blamed for every tactical mistake made on the battlefield, but there were serious strategic mistakes made.
Don’t you think it was a serious strategic blunder to allow the looting of crucial infrastrutuce and basic lawlessness immediately after the invasion? That wasn’t a tactical mistake coincidentally made by every officer in the field, there was a directive not to intervene from the highest level of office. That was a serious mistake, whether you agreed with the decision to go in or not.
As BB has said repeatedly, we should have crushed the insurgency without mercy in its infancy. That’s basic occupational strategy that anyone who has read the likes of Sun Tzu to Machiavelli to Powell understands. To the best of my knowledge the mistakes we made with Al Sadr and Fallujah were directives from the highest levels. Huge mistakes.
Do you honestly believe an insurgency of this scope and magnitude was unavoidable? As I said before I don’t necessarily think he should resign or be fired because of those mistakes (definitely not before the elections), but he is without question responsible.
Here’s a hypothetical: If I were able to show you irrefutable evidence that President Bush no longer has confidence in Rumsfeld and that Bush believes Rumsfeld’s tenure to have been a failure, would you think Bush was wrong and being “petty”, or would you change your mind on Rumsfeld because Bush said so?
[quote]tme wrote:
hedo wrote:
Irony-try and define that and actually make sense. Perhaps the estrogen site may have a quote that better suits you today.
“A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.”
Sorry hedo, if you can’t see the irony in you (or zebbilina, jeffy, rainman, etc. for that matter) using that quote then it would be a complete waste of my time to try and explain it. I personally see that “Strong Words” as a direct slap-in-the-face for all the bush sheep on this forum. But that’s just me.
Baaaaa, hedo.
[/quote]
Indeed. The irony of his interpretation summarizes one of the dynamics of this situation in a way I could never fully verbalize.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Let’s hope the hate that many of you have for the administration does not impede it’s important work.
[/quote]
It’s statements like this, from both sides, that really drag down the level of discourse on this otherwise insightful forum. But anyway…
Hedo: I’ve noticed that you seem to support our role in Iraq because it’s a matter of “right vs. wrong” and that removing an oppressive dictator and installing democracy is a noble thing. I was wondering what your opinion was of the support we currently give to other tyrannies in the Middle East. Isn’t that “wrong”? Do you only support “clear-cut right and wrong” within the borders or Iraq and “necessary evil” otherwise, or is there something I’m missing?
Why single out Rummy? How about this whole administration?
Elk
Your response was non-sensical. Have I ever written anything that implied or inffered that I hate America? You project your failings on me. To imply that someone who supports the President and the administration is anti-american is a shallow attempt to enforce your PC infatuation with the left. As much as I find it amusing…you need to work on your arguments before you attempt to slay me. The “attack the messenger” technique has failed for the left more then once. Let’s try and argue the point.
Tme-
Intellectual cop-out. Your attempt at drawing an Ironic comparison was laughable . Your failure to defend or to explain it was…silly.
If you cannot see that supporting an ABB candidate is a herd mentality ,my attempts to educate you are long past the point that they would do any good.
Al -
No big deal man. Just asking a question. Not going at you. just trying to see your point. I like to argue politics but some seem to be infatuated with hate and when they can’t support an argument they attack the individual.
Moriarity-
Big question, I am pretty much black and white. No Gray. What Dictators are your referring to? I think Iraq qas a huge problem. Much like Iran and Syria. I think the world will be much more peaceful…and safe when they are gone. That’s my opinion. Do I think a lot of innocent people will get hurt. Yes I do. I do think , however, that we must act in our own national interest. Certainly if the people in the Middle east renounced terrorism it would make the process easier. Since they can or will not the burden will be on the US. i acknowledge that we have supported despots in the past. Unfortunately it is the lessor of two evils in many cases.
Sticking your head on the sand or appeasing those who vow to kill you will not make it go away.
Well enough for tonight. I am taking Vroom’s advice and lightening up for the Holidays.
Peace.
Instead of fighting with me. Give to Taps.org
It will be much more rewarding. Seriously. Good people and a good cause.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa[/quote]
[quote]hedo wrote:
Moriarity-
Big question, I am pretty much black and white. No Gray. What Dictators are your referring to? I think Iraq qas a huge problem. Much like Iran and Syria. I think the world will be much more peaceful…and safe when they are gone. That’s my opinion. Do I think a lot of innocent people will get hurt. Yes I do. I do think , however, that we must act in our own national interest. Certainly if the people in the Middle east renounced terrorism it would make the process easier. Since they can or will not the burden will be on the US. i acknowledge that we have supported despots in the past. Unfortunately it is the lessor of two evils in many cases.
[/quote]
This is funny. I’m not talking about despots we supported in the past. I’m talking about right now. Did you not know we are supporting dictators RIGHT NOW that overthrew democracies? Did you know we are supporting the most oppressive regime in the middle east for our economic benefit? How can we ask the people of the Middle East to seek freedom and democracy when we support the most oppresive of the bunch? You act as if this were something that only happened in the past.
As for your “lesser of two evils” comment. That seems a little too “gray” for you. You’re all “black and white,” remember? Or did you want to have it both ways?
I’ll distill this discussion:
“I love a leader that sees things as right & wrong. The war in Iraq is right because we are freeing a people by bringing democracy”
“So then President Bush was wrong for lifting sanctions on a dictator that overthrew a democracy?”
“Well, see, that isn’t really ‘wrong.’ You need to see the world with a bit of nuance. Sometimes you have to support the lesser of two evils.”
“Well let’s discuss the nuances of Iraq, ok?”
“No, you see, I’m strictly a right and wrong kind of guy. Iraq is right, period. That’s why I respect President Bush”
“Well Saudi Arabia…”
“Shut up.”
Let me ask my liberal friends (aldurr, tme, moriarty, elk) a direct question.
If you think the Iraq War was a mistake, provide an alternative.
Please go A to B to C.
For example, “we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq.”
Ok, now how could we have stopped him from reconstituting the weapons? Training terrorists? Funding Terrorists? Firing on our planes (nearly daily)? Bribing UN officials? Throwing UN inspectors out at will/obstructing their inspections? Moving weapons/changing sites PRIOR to inspections? Not declaring weapon systems that we have subsequently found since the invasion?
The problem with the ABB crowd (among many things) is that they have offered EXACTLY ZERO in the way of a viable alternative.
The American people in their wisdom saw right through the rhetoric and entrusted W. with another four years.
Prove me wrong, PLEASE.
Good Luck!!!
JeffR
[quote]Jeffy wrote:
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[/quote]
Moriarity
That’s some funny shit. You try an speak for me and then become tongue tied. Too funny!
Perhaps one day you will see the world differently. Perhaps experience, wisdom and orality will influence your thought. Maybe one day.
Exactly what is your issue? The fact that people have a different viewpoint? That others take a stand? That everyone isn’t a liberal without a clue about how to solve issues…but whatever is being done has to be wrong.
Seriously I answered your question. Tey offering your solution. Let’s see if it actually makes sense. Might be more entertaining then a vain attempt tpo speak for me.