I read through the post but I feel like I’m not understanding the subloading idea. Can you explain it a bit? You calculated how much T would be in your system at week 6 and took that amount the first 5 shots? I’ve frontloaded before but never really calculated it
Yes. 36mg. Best I can tell, I was on around 32mg per week (split x2) when I was feeling my absolute best. I would have never done that dose on purpose but that’s the dose I was on.
(So far so good on 36mg - nearly through 5 weeks now - except I just went through a stomach flu which nearly sent me to the ER and has made me absolutely miserable beyond belief. Mostly over it, but now dealing with a bit of post-viral fatigue and malaise.)
What T levels does 36mg/week (or 32mg) put you at?
Hi swoops. Ok, this should be fun. Going to be long-winded since I seem to know no other way. Also probably going to get called out as a moron for this, but hell I’ve been called worse.
Please bear in mind I am not talking in scientific blood levels here - my numbers described below are strictly a reference number based on “mg” and the half life of cyp (~8 days).
I made a little excel chart attempting to calculate what my “levels” (note the unscientific scare quotes) would be when they stabilized in 6 weeks. So for simplicity let’s do 100mg 1x week:
I start with a column that does this
Day 1 - 100
Day 2 - 92
Day 3 - 84
Day 4 - 77
Day 5 - 71
Day 6 - 65
Day 7 - 59
Day 8 - 55
Day 9 - 50
Day 10 - 46
Day 11 - 42
Day 12 - 39
Day 13 - 35
Day 14 - 32
Day 15 - 30
Day 16 - 27
Day 17 - 25
…
and so on at the same rate until the number is well under 1. I am rounding the numbers here.
I’m aware this is totally rudimentary since the blood levels don’t strictly go straight down but they rather peak first and then go down. I am only trying to establish a baseline to follow, so absolute day to day accuracy isn’t the point. To be totally accurate I should really have done this in hours (since my shots are every 84 hours), but I do it in days, because I’m not looking for balls to the wall accuracy, just a target. Let’s continue with 100mg 1x.
Day 1 - 100
Day 2 - 92
Day 3 - 84
Day 4 - 77
Day 5 - 71
Day 6 - 65
Day 7 - 59
Day 8 - 55 100
Day 9 - 50 92
Day 10 - 46 84
Day 11 - 42 77
Day 12 - 39 71
Day 13 - 35 65
Day 14 - 32 59
Day 15 - 30 55 100
Day 16 - 27 50 92
Day 17 - 25 46 84
Apologies for the formatting. Each subsequent column is the following week’s shot. If you continue this outward, and total up your rows at the end (not shown), your total magically stabilizes at… 6 weeks. Meaning the 8th, 9th and 10th shots all bring you to the same exact “level” as the 7th one (which occurs after 6 weeks).
In the case of 100mg of cyp per week, that “number” at the end of the column will peak around 218 into eternity.
Using this chart - and remember I was reducing my dose to 18mg 2x - I was able to determine my target number, in my case around 67, and get myself there in between weeks 2 and 3 by going 14mg, 14mg, 16mg, 16mg, 16mg … and then 18mg the rest of the way.
I made up the word subloading simply because I was injecting less over the course of several shots to get there faster. I probably could have done the very same by skipping a shot but that’s just a shock to the system, which I was also trying to avoid. I don’t know if this makes any sense but it does to me.
Hi Dex. I don’t know yet but it’s a good question. Due for a checkup pretty soon and I’m going to see if I can persuade him to do more than just TT. I haven’t had my levels checked in over a year.
If I have to make a choice, is trough more valuable than peak?
Yeah I’d say so. Knowing where the levels are at their lowest would likely be most beneficial. You aren’t in the US right?
I’m in the US but stuck in a state where it is difficult to obtain my own labs.
Yep still lost lol. You had me up until you determined your ‘target number’. But I get the math, and to simplify that after 5 half lives you’ll have double whatever you started with consistently in your system. You take 100mg, after five half life’s of 100mg you’ll have steady state of 200mg from that point forward (your spreadsheet shows this).
So if I take 200mg Cyp weekly (no matter how it’s broken up during that week) after about 6 weeks I’ve got 400mg in me moving forward. So I’d ‘front load’ that amount during the first 1-3 weeks of my protocol so my transition was as smooth as possible. That’s what I’ve always done, I just didn’t know how to calculate how long that front load would be, so I just did 1-3 weeks. Maybe using your spreadsheet there’s a way to know for sure.
I’ve probably told you this before but labs still services those states they just don’t advertise it.
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Yeah that’s it.
Sorry I didn’t show or explain the totals. Would have made more sense that way. On Day 8 the total was 155. On Day 15 the total was 185. By Day 43 that number always peaks at 218.
Based on my calculation, if you were injecting 200mg twice a week (starting from “0”) and did 250mg for the first five shots and then settled on 200 for the rest it would get you pretty darn close to your target by the beginning of Week 4 without doing too crazy an amount at once.
Interesting thanks. Holy crap on the price. Is the report printed on a gold bar? Or is that number in Quatloos?
Bro 36mg . That’s so absurdly low I don’t understand why you are doing this to yourself. 36 will keep you well below 20. My dad is 75 years old and his free t is 15. You are lower than him most likely. Unless you are the 1% of the 1%.
Delete that this is indexed in google and some asshat might report them
Nice! That’s what I was looking for. Peak by week 4 instead of 6. So if you did 300mg first 5 shots then it’d be around week 3?
Dude. Haven’t we been over this? I get you are trying to help me. And this ride can be a real struggle with so many doctors in the Stone Age and so few specialists.
I am open to all commentary and suggestions and grateful for anyone who had read this log and shared their time (although I’d like to note I didn’t start it because I was having trouble, I started it because I thought it would be interesting for future protocol switchers).
However - I am sitting here after 4.5 weeks on 36mg… following 9 weeks on 56mg… and my Low T symptoms, which were crippling and many pre-TRT, are 95% resolved.
And beyond resolving symptoms like low energy, poor concentration and zero libido, I mostly feel better than ever, with confidence and mood generally way beyond what was ever my best baseline.
Maybe I am the 1% of the 1%. That’s only 1 in 10,000. I’m not saying it’s likely, but we’re not in Powerball territory either.
Maybe I won’t know for another few weeks. But I’ve been on a pretty low dose since mid-November and none of my pre-TRT symptoms have returned for any significant time. In fact a few things have gotten even better.
I stumbled on this dose accidentally. I don’t know what else to tell you except stay tuned. I may be right here in weeks or months to tell you that you were right all along. But I hope not.
I don’t have my chart here in front of me but if you go that high you will likely create a different roller coaster by overshooting your target, and then having to come back down over the course of the next few weeks. Let me look later.
Yeah you’re probably right, shortening to 4 weeks from 6 is probably good enough
I have simply never seen anyone take 36mg. Ive seen guys go with 100, but you are 3 times lower than that.
Ill keep an eye out and I hope you figure this out soon and find success like many others on here : ]
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Hi swoops. I looked again. If you’re looking for the quickest route to “level” and don’t mind a big loading dose, then, assuming once weekly:
Shot 1 300
Shot 2 250
Then 200 the rest of the way
gets you really close at the end of Week 3 and just about bang on for Week 4. Any more than that you will overshoot the target. I have no idea if it will work for you but that’s the math. If you try it, I’m interested how it goes for you.
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