Roots of Islamic Terror

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Hmm. Under this theory, the healthier we get (or able to cure diseases, etc.), the fewer and fewer moral restrictions we have on ourselves.

I don’t buy that. I am not sure if you came up with the idea or someone else did, but that ignores the range of moral philosophy/examination we have had available since antiquity.[/quote]

Just choosing this one point for further discussion (as you may still be addressing others above) since I find it interesting.

There are different types of moral strictures. One such as doing unto others as you would have them do unto you probably isn’t a “health” issue.

It’s more of an empathy issue. We know that we don’t like to be harmed and via empathy we can understand what it is like to someone else when they are harmed. Empathy may seem like a touchy-feely concept, but it is real.

However, if someone dislikes empathy, then there is the safety in numbers concept which implores a species to preserve itself… meaning it is better to cooperate to some degree.

I’m getting off topic, but the idea is that there are plenty of ways to come up with and define “morals”. We can also be told about them by our parents or by our religious leaders.

Back to the particular issue at hand, I think you can often pick out “why” a particular moral was adopted or stated based on some criteria, be it health or otherwise.

When society changes, or the underlying original reasons for the creation of a “more” have changed, then it’s possible for society to disregard it, and come up with new standards.

However, keep in mind, that without the acceptance of a divine judge, selection of appropriate moral codes is highly subjective. Should we have prohibition or not? Should prostitution be allowed or not?

Bear in mind, I’m not arguing for the lack of mores, or that we should all be able to do absolutely anything we want at any time.

I am arguing that as factors of daily life change, the decisions people make, collectively, have a shaping effect on society. Cash is invented and trading patterns change. Roads are created and trade routes are established. New ideas circulate the settled world faster.

While these things don’t appear to have any direct effect on our morals, over time such changes lead to behavioral shifts, which then have the ability to conflict with our views of an appropriate society.

The nuclear family is a good example. Financial pressures, which are not really directly related to mores, are eroding it. Women that work are certainly not immoral or bad. Erosion of the nuclear family may be, but that is a subjective view.

And that leads to the whole problem. Who is to say that erosion of the nuclear family is good or bad? Maybe it will be bad if it leads to higher alcoholism, higher crime, lower education, or other negative events.

While not a “health” issue, it is still the outcome of the change, and it’s positive or negative impacts, that appear to be how it is judged. Surely the reasons to desire a nuclear family are more defined than “because I had one” or worse “just because”?

Anyway, this whole long winded post is just an attempt to discuss my belief that as the negatives involved in violating a commonly held moral are reduced, the moral itself may lose it’s meaning.

Of course, there are many morals that are not losing their negatives. We don’t need to change those ones.

However, for example, women as second class citizens seems to have no place today, so that one has changed… and in today’s society, it is much easier for women to exist without being dependent upon a man. It was not always so.

In my opinion, there is much more subjectivity and relative judgment involved than most would like. To tie back into the thread topic, the other source of morals, religion, does not change to reflect the changes in negatives and positives associated with behaviors, and thus conflicts between religions and societies are bound to occur from time to time.

I hope I haven’t been repeating myself too much…

Lixy and Oklahoma state hit the nail on the head. The rest of you who think something is wrong with the Islamic religeon are largely, a bunch of idiots.

The main problem is that a few things in the islamic religeon has been twisted and taken to the extreme ignoring all other teachings. Hence Islamic extremist.

Any of you ever read the bible, there is shitloads of violence in the bible, and christianity is the religeon this country was founded on. In fact christian and islamic teachings closely pralell each other, with respect to their general teachings of being kind to fellow man.

Islamic teachings also teach that Jesus existed as a profit, and his word should be followed ( to a certain degree), where as christianity teaches that jesus was an extension of god himself. That is the main difference anyways, I don’t want to offend any islamics by stating that is the only difference.

However alot of you guys are probably are so narrow minded that you are just paying attention to what rolls across your TV screen every day, as opposed to reality. Probably have not even taken time to even read up on the religeon, or talk to a real practitioner of islam.

[quote]SwampThing wrote:
Lixy and Oklahoma state hit the nail on the head. The rest of you who think something is wrong with the Islamic religeon are largely, a bunch of idiots.

The main problem is that a few things in the islamic religeon has been twisted and taken to the extreme ignoring all other teachings. Hence Islamic extremist.

Any of you ever read the bible, there is shitloads of violence in the bible, and christianity is the religeon this country was founded on. In fact christian and islamic teachings closely pralell each other, with respect to their general teachings of being kind to fellow man.

Islamic teachings also teach that Jesus existed as a profit, and his word should be followed ( to a certain degree), where as christianity teaches that jesus was an extension of god himself. That is the main difference anyways, I don’t want to offend any islamics by stating that is the only difference.

However alot of you guys are probably are so narrow minded that you are just paying attention to what rolls across your TV screen every day, as opposed to reality. Probably have not even taken time to even read up on the religeon, or talk to a real practitioner of islam.[/quote]

I’m sorry, could you rewrite that whole thing in English? I don’t speak Swamp.

[quote]lixy wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
We want them to reform, obviously - but what incentive do they have to change when so many people are saying “there is nothing inherently wrong with your culture”…?

Your statement is really saddening. It claims that there’s something inherently wrong with the Islamic culture, when it’s some extremists that give it a bad name.

Your “article” talks about stoning of women, clitorectomies and hanging of gays and tries to pass it as something common in the Muslim world. This is laughable. Those sights are the exception rather than the rule in the Muslim world.

I don’t see where you’re going with your Islam-bashing posts so I have a question; Do you seriously consider killing, converting and/or persecuting a billion and a half people because of their faith? If not, and assuming your vision and that of Dr. Hamid is right, what would be, according to you, an appropriate solution to the “problem” in Islamic culture? I’m seriously inquiring here.[/quote]

The combination of certain cultures and islam IS negative. To claim that anti-homosexuality is “the exeption rather than the rule in the muslim world” is to spit in the face of the thousands of gays that have died by the end of a rope in Iran… Again your idealism and naivity gets in the way of the hard facts. You are so busy being tolerant that it seems that realism is secondary.

[quote]SwampThing wrote:
Any of you ever read the bible, there is shitloads of violence in the bible, and christianity is the religeon this country was founded on. In fact christian and islamic teachings closely pralell each other, with respect to their general teachings of being kind to fellow man.
[/quote]

The United States was not founded on Christianity. The founding fathers were, for the most part, deists, which, although they believed in a higher power, were, for all intents and purposes, pretty secular.

That being said. You are right about Islam and Christianity being similar, they Islam is Christianity’s younger brother. Both Religions are outdated and unnecessary though, imo.

[quote]Adamsson wrote:
The combination of certain cultures and islam IS negative.[/quote]

I’m curious as to what cultures you’re referring to.

Homosexuals are still victims of agressions worldwide, and the laws accepting the practice aren’t so old in the West either. Can I remind you that the suicide rate of young gays is 16 times higher than their hetero counterpart in the US. If you had any brains, such stats would make you think that maybe, just maybe, Islam isn’t to blame for everything that’s wrong in the world…

I don’t know where you came up with thousands of gays figures, but I’m guessing it wasn’t a clean or illuminated place. Note that even the Iranian government denied hanging Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni in 2005 for homosexuality. They charged them with gang affiliation and raping a 13 year old boy. Whatever the real motives behind their conviction, it shows that it’s extremely hard to justify such aberations even in a hard-line extremist Muslim country like Iran.

More importantly, there are over 50 majority-Muslim countries in the world and only 5 countries which prescribe death for engaging in homosexual acts. Guess what? Not all of them are Muslim countries. Do some bloody homework before speaking about a religion you know nothing about…

[quote]Adamsson wrote:
… To claim that anti-homosexuality is “the exeption rather than the rule in the muslim world” is to spit in the face of the thousands of gays that have died by the end of a rope in Iran… [/quote]

Amazingly blatant homosexuality was openly tolerated by the Taliban in some parts of Afghanistan and was punishable by death in other parts.

Islam isn’t to blame for everything that’s wrong in the world…

maybe not, but either is America.