[quote]SexMachine wrote:
‘We believe that God used our holy war in Afghanistan to destroy the Soviet Union…and now we ask God to use us one more time to do the same to the Americans. We also believe that our battle against America is much simpler than the war against the Soviet Union, because some of our mujahideen who fought here in Afghanistan also participated in operations against the Americans in Somalia - and they were surprised at the collapse of American morale. This convinved us that the Americans are a paper tiger’ - Osama bin Laden, 1997
A paper tiger? Say it ain’t so.[/quote]
Well, it is so and the US did exactly what he wanted them to do.
Bonus points for him for telling them beforehand, and a Dunces cap for anyone who decides to do exactly what his enemies want him to do.
[/quote]
It was an unavoidable trap. Because Clinton decided to allow bin Laden to keep breathing[*] and establish connections in Afghanistan the stage was already set. We couldn’t allow al-Qaeda to keep operating safely from Afghanistan after 9/11. Besides, there are elements in Pakistan who share al-Qaeda’s global agenda and it was the Pakistanis, Iranians and oil sheiks from the Gulf who have backed al-Qaeda since the beginning. It’s just an escalation of a war we were already involved in.
[*] After the Egyptian tourist massacre, WTC bombing, East Africa embassy bombings, Bojinka plot etc
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
‘We believe that God used our holy war in Afghanistan to destroy the Soviet Union…and now we ask God to use us one more time to do the same to the Americans. We also believe that our battle against America is much simpler than the war against the Soviet Union, because some of our mujahideen who fought here in Afghanistan also participated in operations against the Americans in Somalia - and they were surprised at the collapse of American morale. This convinved us that the Americans are a paper tiger’ - Osama bin Laden, 1997
A paper tiger? Say it ain’t so.[/quote]
Well, it is so and the US did exactly what he wanted them to do.
Bonus points for him for telling them beforehand, and a Dunces cap for anyone who decides to do exactly what his enemies want him to do.
[/quote]
It was an unavoidable trap. Because Clinton decided to allow bin Laden to keep breathing[*] and establish connections in Afghanistan the stage was already set. We couldn’t allow al-Qaeda to keep operating safely from Afghanistan after 9/11. Besides, there are elements in Pakistan who share al-Qaeda’s global agenda and it was the Pakistanis, Iranians and oil sheiks from the Gulf who have backed al-Qaeda since the beginning. It’s just an escalation of a war we were already involved in.
[*] After the Egyptian tourist massacre, WTC bombing, East Africa embassy bombings, Bojinka plot etc[/quote]
Well, they could have went in and killed him with a commando team.
Apparently that works quite well, though I will admit that the mighty Afghan airforce is a force to be reckoned with.
It was an unavoidable trap. Because Clinton decided to allow bin Laden to keep breathing[*] and establish connections in Afghanistan the stage was already set. We couldn’t allow al-Qaeda to keep operating safely from Afghanistan after 9/11. Besides, there are elements in Pakistan who share al-Qaeda’s global agenda and it was the Pakistanis, Iranians and oil sheiks from the Gulf who have backed al-Qaeda since the beginning. It’s just an escalation of a war we were already involved in.
[*] After the Egyptian tourist massacre, WTC bombing, East Africa embassy bombings, Bojinka plot etc
[/quote]
Don’t be tossin’ history in the path of America-hatin Joe - it gets in the way of his preconceived ideology.
[/quote]
That was one of them there hay figurines, wasnt it?
And I know what horse shit smells like too, cityslicker.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
‘We believe that God used our holy war in Afghanistan to destroy the Soviet Union…and now we ask God to use us one more time to do the same to the Americans. We also believe that our battle against America is much simpler than the war against the Soviet Union, because some of our mujahideen who fought here in Afghanistan also participated in operations against the Americans in Somalia - and they were surprised at the collapse of American morale. This convinved us that the Americans are a paper tiger’ - Osama bin Laden, 1997
A paper tiger? Say it ain’t so.[/quote]
Well, it is so and the US did exactly what he wanted them to do.
Bonus points for him for telling them beforehand, and a Dunces cap for anyone who decides to do exactly what his enemies want him to do.
[/quote]
It was an unavoidable trap. Because Clinton decided to allow bin Laden to keep breathing[*] and establish connections in Afghanistan the stage was already set. We couldn’t allow al-Qaeda to keep operating safely from Afghanistan after 9/11. Besides, there are elements in Pakistan who share al-Qaeda’s global agenda and it was the Pakistanis, Iranians and oil sheiks from the Gulf who have backed al-Qaeda since the beginning. It’s just an escalation of a war we were already involved in.
[*] After the Egyptian tourist massacre, WTC bombing, East Africa embassy bombings, Bojinka plot etc[/quote]
Well, they could have went in and killed him with a commando team.
Apparently that works quite well, though I will admit that the mighty Afghan airforce is a force to be reckoned with. [/quote]
Or they could’ve flown to Afghanistan in a hydrogen zeppelin with letters of marque and reprisal on board, and karate kicked Mullah Omar and the ISI into submission. These yankie generals don’t know what they’re doing.
But seriously though, there was the little matter of the GOVERNMENT of Afghanistan(i.e. Mullah Omar’s Taliban) being involved in the 9/11 attacks. And the matter of ISI involvement with the Taliban e.g. the Islamist Director of the ISI Hamid Gul, who personally visited bin Laden and Mullah Omar and provided them with information on how to make/use nuclear/chemical/biological weapons.
Because so many idiots think Israel is the 51st state of the union.
[/quote]
Ally. Most important and closest ally.
No one suggested that. I was interested to know if he specifically mentioned Israel for cuts thereby suggesting that Israel is more deserving of cuts than other countries.
Actually a picture would be helpful. What will happen when we stop funding Pakistan’s nuclear program and they stop guarding our only feasible supply line into Afghanistan? Oh that’s right. We’re going to pull out of Afghanistan and then al-Qaeda will no longer want to attack us anymore. How does that work again?
[quote]
As for Ron Paul getting elected, I doubt it. Too many simpleton sociopathic warmongers in the GOP for that.[/quote]
How does this “warmonger(ing)” manifest itself? Who would you say are the main “warmongers” in the Obama administration? Describe their villainy for us please. Go ahead.[/quote]
Why in the world is Israel our “best and most important” ally?
The only war in which Israel has ever helped the U.S. in is the current “War on Terror”–and the only help they gave us–was help in entering that war. Not only did OBL himself state that the primary reason for why he attacked the U.S. was because of its bias support of Israel, but it was the same advisors who attempted to advise Netanyahu on removing Saddam Hussein in 1996 (A Clean Break), who successfully advised the Bush administration to invade Iraq. Of course, Netanyahu did not follow their advice, no, that “important Israeli strategic object” was more conveniently paid for in American dollars and blood.
Israel is a country that has stole and sold U.S. classified information and weapons to the likes of China and Russiaâ??I am not just referencing the long history of Israelâ??s vast military assistance to China, but also Jonathan Pollard, as well as the case Rosen v. AIPAC, which is full of espionage charges against the state of Israel
The state of Israel has officially admitted to false-flag operations such as the Lavon Affair, where Israeli operatives bombed American and British businesses.
Economist Thomas Stauffer has estimated Israel has received more than 1.6 trillion dollars of aid from the U.S. since 1973, and that estimate was back in 2002, so it does not include the multi-billion dollar F-35 â??dealâ?? where the U.S. basically bought new fighter jets for Israel. (For the record, Congressman Ron Paul has NEVER singled out Israel for foreign aidâ??he has rightfully stated that all foreign aid must be terminatedâ??to ALL states, including Israel.)
If anything, it is the U.S. that is Israelâ??s â??best and most importantâ?? ally, a fact you neoconservatives and Israeli-loyalists need to wrap around your heads. Back in 2003, the Israelis refused to even give an airbase to the U.S.; so that we may launch the invasion of Iraq. Yet, you people act as if the Israelis are some God-sent help to us. No fellas, it is the other way around.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
But seriously though, there was the little matter of the GOVERNMENT of Afghanistan(i.e. Mullah Omar’s Taliban) being involved in the 9/11 attacks. And the matter of ISI involvement with the Taliban e.g. the Islamist Director of the ISI Hamid Gul, who personally visited bin Laden and Mullah Omar and provided them with information on how to make/use nuclear/chemical/biological weapons.[/quote]
They were not involved with it, some Pashtun tribes took him in.
They were not involved with it, some Pashtun tribes took him in.
[/quote]
Horseshit. Al-Qaeda was invited to stay in Afghanistan by Rabbani’s government. Al-Qaeda and the ‘Afghan Arabs’ moved with their families from Sudan to Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda then joined forces with Mullah Omar’s ISI trained/funded Taliban and overthrew the government, the remnants of which formed the Northern Alliance. OBL swore allegiance to Mullah Omar and Al-Qaeda’s ‘Afghan Arabs’ then took over the Afghan military training with ISI aid.
Al-Qaeda controlled Kabul airlines(Ariana) and used it as a heroin and weapons smuggling centre in collaboration with Russian arms dealer Victor Bout. Two days before the 9/11 attacks the Taliban assassinated the leader of the Northern Alliance(Ahmad Shah Massoud) and began to prepare for a US backed war against the remnants of the Northern Alliance after the attacks(which the highest levels of the Taliban knew about and had approved as per the wishes of their leader Mullah Omar.)
[quote]
Also the ISI is an American ally.
Or was.
Or some such.[/quote]
Yes was. During the cold war when they helped us bring down the Soviets in Afghanistan and the Berlin wall. After the fall of the Soviet Union Islamist movements were seeded in the new central Asian republics by the ISI and fighters from those regions make up the core of the ‘foreign fighters’ in al-Qaeda and the Talibans in Af-Pak.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
â??If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.â?? â??Thomas Jefferson[/quote]
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
�¢??If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.�¢?? �¢??Thomas Jefferson[/quote]
Amen[/quote]
That was actually what the Fed did, right after it had been started.
Ron Paul lives in a fantasy world based upon the 18th century paradigm where America was not the first, second, third, fourth or even fifth most powerful country in the world. Those days are long gone. If we withdraw from the rest of the world and let it go to whoever else is ready to step in and fill the power vacuum we leave behind, we won’t be safer.
Countries that don’t like us now probably won’t all of a sudden start liking us because we aren’t there. ie China and North Korea. Countries that do like us now and are our friends would then have a good reason to like us a whole lot less and would start sucking up to the more powerful countries that can do something for them.
For example. Israel is hedging it’s bets by making itself less reliant on the US. How is it doing this? By providing high tech military technology to China and India. ie China and India operate Russian designed Mig fighters that have Israeli avionics. If we cut off aid to the Israelis, they will have a good reason to get a lot friendlier with them and a lot less friendly with us.
Ron Paul is delusional and only appeals to idiots who are very one dimensional in their thinking.
Then which candidates spout the correct mentality for foreign affairs Sifu? I think most detractors are being childish. They think that by pulling in that we won’t ensure our own safety. We would still protect our trades and our embassy personnel. Also, wars would happen on occasion too. They would just be very justified and quick.
It’s not that you actually believe in the absolute black and white of it, it’s that you don’t want to be wrong so you are stubbornly, purposefully being ignorant.
Doesn’t matter how any of us feel about our foreign policy, financial reality will shape it. Basically, a much, much smaller footprint. We’re fading as a superpower and the conditions aren’t there to reverse course. We’ll cannibalize a great deal of military spending to put off, for as long as possible, the full amount in entitlement spending that will have to happen. Ultimately, US might will look a lot more like Paul’s vision than, say, Romney’s. It’s sad that other Republican haven’t accepted this, and left it to some eccentric old man.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Ron Paul lives in a fantasy world based upon the 18th century paradigm where America was not the first, second, third, fourth or even fifth most powerful country in the world. Those days are long gone. If we withdraw from the rest of the world and let it go to whoever else is ready to step in and fill the power vacuum we leave behind, we won’t be safer.
Countries that don’t like us now probably won’t all of a sudden start liking us because we aren’t there. ie China and North Korea. Countries that do like us now and are our friends would then have a good reason to like us a whole lot less and would start sucking up to the more powerful countries that can do something for them.
For example. Israel is hedging it’s bets by making itself less reliant on the US. How is it doing this? By providing high tech military technology to China and India. ie China and India operate Russian designed Mig fighters that have Israeli avionics. If we cut off aid to the Israelis, they will have a good reason to get a lot friendlier with them and a lot less friendly with us.
Ron Paul is delusional and only appeals to idiots who are very one dimensional in their thinking. [/quote]
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Ron Paul lives in a fantasy world based upon the 18th century paradigm where America was not the first, second, third, fourth or even fifth most powerful country in the world. Those days are long gone. If we withdraw from the rest of the world and let it go to whoever else is ready to step in and fill the power vacuum we leave behind, we won’t be safer.
Countries that don’t like us now probably won’t all of a sudden start liking us because we aren’t there. ie China and North Korea. Countries that do like us now and are our friends would then have a good reason to like us a whole lot less and would start sucking up to the more powerful countries that can do something for them.
For example. Israel is hedging it’s bets by making itself less reliant on the US. How is it doing this? By providing high tech military technology to China and India. ie China and India operate Russian designed Mig fighters that have Israeli avionics. If we cut off aid to the Israelis, they will have a good reason to get a lot friendlier with them and a lot less friendly with us.
Ron Paul is delusional and only appeals to idiots who are very one dimensional in their thinking. [/quote]
[quote]brnforce wrote:
Then which candidates spout the correct mentality for foreign affairs Sifu? I think most detractors are being childish. They think that by pulling in that we won’t ensure our own safety. We would still protect our trades and our embassy personnel. Also, wars would happen on occasion too. They would just be very justified and quick.
It’s not that you actually believe in the absolute black and white of it, it’s that you don’t want to be wrong so you are stubbornly, purposefully being ignorant. [/quote]
I’m not really impressed by any of them. But thread isn’t about the rest of them, it’s about Ron Paul. While our enemies would love it if we were to retreat from our bases around the world it still wouldn’t make them love us. We would lose friends. We would lose influence. It would lead to the creation of new alliances that would not be favorable to us and would be much more powerful.
One only needs to look at Tibet or Tiananmen square to see what the Chinese are really like. What the Russians did to Georgia showed us how dangerous they can still be. If you can’t see how greatly enhancing their power and influence by diminishing our own could go wrong, you are the one who is being purposefully ignorant.
We’re fading as a superpower and the conditions aren’t there to reverse course.
[/quote]
Ah, we have a realist in our midst. Yes, when you’ve got ‘adult babies’ on welfare and you have to employ mercenaries to protect the state things aren’t looking good.