[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It is dominate or be dominated.[/quote]
Not exactly. That is what defense is for. It is provided in the constitution. The other examples cited are not. If the populous feels something should be taken care of by the federal gov’t then it can always be added with an amendment.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Why don’t you two show me some proof that those “wars” were begun to “scare people.” That is what he said.
Go ahead…I’ll wait patiently.[/quote]
People were scared to make the WOD begin.
They wanted paper production from hemp to stop, Mexican guest workers out and all those prohibition people who only knew how to make a living by bullying people needed a job.
“Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”
“[Marijuana] is highly intoxicating and constitutes an ever recurring problem where there are Mexicans or Spanish-Americans of the lower classes.”
“In some districts, inhabited by Latin Americans, Filipinos, Spaniards and Negroes, half the violent crimes are attributed to marijuana craze. Dr. Lee Rice of San Antonio reports that eighty per cent of all the murders committed by Mexicans are done while the killers are drugged by marijuana.”
“Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing”
“Colored students at the Univ. of Minn. partying with female students (white), smoking [marijuana] and getting their sympathy with stories of racial persecution. Result pregnancy”
“Two Negros took a girl fourteen years old and kept her for two days under the influence of marijuana. Upon recovery she was found to be suffering from syphilis”
“An entire family was murdered by a youthful addict in Florida. When officers arrived at the home, they found the youth staggering about in a human slaughterhouse. With an axe he had killed his father, mother, two brothers, and a sister. He seemed to be in a daze? He had no recollection of having committed the multiple crime. The officers knew him ordinarily as a sane, rather quiet young man; now he was pitifully crazed. They sought the reason. The boy said that he had been in the habit of smoking something which youthful friends called ?muggles,? a childish name for marijuana.”
Marijuana leads to homosexuality … and therefore to AIDS."
and finally
When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other in order that the people may require a leader. – Plato
Yup, Ron Paul is so inredibly … informed?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
That was not Ron Pauls quote. He said the wars were just to scare people. This is the talk of conspiracy kooks.
Yes, well people often confuse correlation with cause. The fact is that these policies have been very effective at scaring people though they may not have been designed with that intent.
So he uses a little rhetoric for dramatic affect? Is it any worse than Guliani’s mock indignation anytime someone dissents with his opinion on terrorism? [/quote]
Those wars were sold to a public by scare tactics , there actually was a conspiracy that is well documented now, and once those agencies started they made sure to never ever go away by instilling still more fear.
Zap and Mick28 are, how shall I put this, wrong.
Ther very idea that conspiracies do not happen in the US is naive, to say the least.
COINTELPRO anyone?
I have posted a few quotes, enjoy the racism and fear mongering.
Any similaries with the war on terror are by no means a coincidence.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Why don’t you two show me some proof that those “wars” were begun to “scare people.” That is what he said.
Go ahead…I’ll wait patiently.
Why don’t you show us some proof that these “wars” have accomplished their purported goals.
Because I never made a claim that they did.
Whereas, Paul DID make a claim that the stated “wars” were begun to “scare people.” Now as long as you jumped in why don’t you and the other two or three Paul supporters lay out some proof.
Still waiting…
[/quote]
Got one
Like Ron Paul said, there to scare people.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Hey Ren, I’m still waiting for proof regarding both “wars.”
I almost fell out of my chair laughing after reading the blather that was in the link you posted.
We both know that that’s not proof. It’s the ramblings of some nitwit.
[/quote]
Most of the quotes I posted were from Anslinger, first Drug Zar.
If that is not enough for you, fine.
Reality is not for everyone, I understand that.
http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj004.htm
Anyone interested can research the links between Hearst, DuPont and Anslinger.
Really, it is all there, anyone denying that comes from planet Republicon where government always serves the common good.
[quote]orion wrote:
Really, it is all there, anyone denying that comes from planet Republicon where government always serves the common good.
[/quote]
There are quite a few people around here that have a childish sense of trust and admiration for their daddy government.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Let’s replace Bush with someone, from either party, or an independent, who has the intelligence, the fortitude and the ideas to do the right thing at the right time.[/quote]
Pray, tell me, in which of these qualities do you think Mr. Paul is lacking?
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
That man is certainly NOT Ron Paul. And as the polls tell us the American people are at least smart enough to see this. [/quote]
The polls say no such thing. The polls say that the majority still don’t have enough awareness of Ron Paul in order to vote for him. So they are defaulting to the establishment candidates for the time being. Among the politically informed, however, Ron Paul is doing well and gaining support every day.
Here’s a very interesting take on the coming election and general trends in American politics by Gary North, who compares Ron Paul to Gandhi:
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
There are a good many things wrong with the way our current system operates. But it is still the best system in the world in my opinion. Certainly better than what masquerades as government in Canada, no offense intended.[/quote]
LOL. I get a kick out of it when people pick on Canada. We really aren’t all that different.
[quote]Let’s replace Bush with someone, from either party, or an independent, who has the intelligence, the fortitude and the ideas to do the right thing at the right time.
That man is certainly NOT Ron Paul. And as the polls tell us the American people are at least smart enough to see this.
[/quote]
Yeah, my comment wasn’t really in respect to Ron, who does at times come across as batshit crazy due to his very specific interpretation of issues.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Yeah, my comment wasn’t really in respect to Ron, who does at times come across as batshit crazy due to his very specific interpretation of issues.
[/quote]
Shamelessly quoting myself:
"You Vroom, indoctrinated to the bone by the times you live in and the dying myth of the Enlightenment, that a society is something you can rationally build like a machine.
This constructivist attitude is one of the core ideas of collectivism and it is just plain wrong."
You are not even fully aware of some of your most basic assumption (well, who is, really) and yet everyone that does not share them is batshit grazy.
He thinks “society building” is as doomed from the start as “nation building”.
Now that may attack a lot of your ideas at their basic premises,however, that does not mean he is wrong.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Let’s replace Bush with someone, from either party, or an independent, who has the intelligence, the fortitude and the ideas to do the right thing at the right time.
Pray, tell me, in which of these qualities do you think Mr. Paul is lacking?
Mick28 wrote:
That man is certainly NOT Ron Paul. And as the polls tell us the American people are at least smart enough to see this.
The polls say no such thing. The polls say that the majority still don’t have enough awareness of Ron Paul in order to vote for him. So they are defaulting to the establishment candidates for the time being. Among the politically informed, however, Ron Paul is doing well and gaining support every day.
Here’s a very interesting take on the coming election and general trends in American politics by Gary North, who compares Ron Paul to Gandhi:
Ron Paul Is the Gandhi of Our Time - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com [/quote]
Pauls candidacy may have long term effects, like Goldwaters.
Paul may be the libertarian Reagans Goldwater and I guess that would be enough for him.
[quote]orion wrote:
"You Vroom, indoctrinated to the bone by the times you live in and the dying myth of the Enlightenment, that a society is something you can rationally build like a machine.
This constructivist attitude is one of the core ideas of collectivism and it is just plain wrong."
You are not even fully aware of some of your most basic assumption (well, who is, really) and yet everyone that does not share them is batshit grazy.
He thinks “society building” is as doomed from the start as “nation building”.
Now that may attack a lot of your ideas at their basic premises,however, that does not mean they`re wrong.[/quote]
LOL.
Unfortunately, you probably are not aware of which issues I find to be batshit crazy, and which ideas I truly like and admire.
I’ve never held the idea that society can be “built”, like a machine, but I do know that our behavior is shaped by the conditions that we face.
For example, free markets have a great shaping influence, through competition and human greed. Governments can also exert shaping influences, such as through loan guarantees for higher education.
Your can quote your own bullshit all you like, but it doesn’t make it accurate or useful. You have a viewpoint that is very much in the minority, the extreme, and you are railing against everyone else in the assumption that “they” are all blind.
It’s not true that everyone that doesn’t think like you is blind, so at some point you may find it valuable to reconsider your “rage against the machine” with respect to those that disagree.
Otherwise, all I hear are impotent complaints and whining at the “blind” fools of the world – nearly the entire world – because it isn’t smart enough to echo your opinion.
Good luck with that.
[quote]vroom wrote:
orion wrote:
"You Vroom, indoctrinated to the bone by the times you live in and the dying myth of the Enlightenment, that a society is something you can rationally build like a machine.
This constructivist attitude is one of the core ideas of collectivism and it is just plain wrong."
You are not even fully aware of some of your most basic assumption (well, who is, really) and yet everyone that does not share them is batshit grazy.
He thinks “society building” is as doomed from the start as “nation building”.
Now that may attack a lot of your ideas at their basic premises,however, that does not mean they`re wrong.
LOL.
Unfortunately, you probably are not aware of which issues I find to be batshit crazy, and which ideas I truly like and admire.
I’ve never held the idea that society can be “built”, like a machine, but I do know that our behavior is shaped by the conditions that we face.
For example, free markets have a great shaping influence, through competition and human greed. Governments can also exert shaping influences, such as through loan guarantees for higher education.
Your can quote your own bullshit all you like, but it doesn’t make it accurate or useful. You have a viewpoint that is very much in the minority, the extreme, and you are railing against everyone else in the assumption that “they” are all blind.
It’s not true that everyone that doesn’t think like you is blind, so at some point you may find it valuable to reconsider your “rage against the machine” with respect to those that disagree.
Otherwise, all I hear are impotent complaints and whining at the “blind” fools of the world – nearly the entire world – because it isn’t smart enough to echo your opinion.
Good luck with that.[/quote]
I know that my point of view is very much in the minority, I could not care less though, since all the majority ever does is eat, sleep, shit and regurgitate the ideological BS it grew up with.
What you do not get is that what you conceive as impotent complaints and whining on a political level is very empowering on a personal level.
I do not expect anyone to do anything for me and I have very much learned to beat at least my government at its own game.
Granted, that is not that hard if you have several dozens other countries close to you, including at least four tax havens.
So while our political infliuence is probably the same, for now, I do know a lot of people in Austria that will be members of a government sooner or later; that is next to inevitable if you have studied economics and law in a relatively small countries capital.
What is even more important is that while you may enjoy being robbed, because it is so mainstream and all, I actively avoid that, making a lot of money doing so, so my oh so impotent views give me the economic power not to go down with a sinking ship.
What more could a libertarian want?
[quote]orion wrote:
I know that my point of view is very much in the minority, I could not care less though, since all the majority ever does is eat, sleep, shit and regurgitate the ideological BS it grew up with.[/quote]
Or so you assume…
[quote]What you do not get is that what you conceive as impotent complaints and whining on a political level is very empowering on a personal level.
I do not expect anyone to do anything for me and I have very much learned to beat at least my government at its own game.
Granted, that is not that hard if you have several dozens other countries close to you, including at least four tax havens.
[/quote]
Do you honestly think that people with any quantity of resources are not taking advantage of tax havens? It is easier than ever to do so these days.
Again, you don’t know what the hell you are talking about. I live in the one western country that is actually paying down it’s debts.
I hate taxes. I have argued against income tax by comparing it to percentage slavery.
However, what I am not doing is calling those that actually do have half a clue mindless robots of their culture. Do those people exist? Sure. Am I one of them? Very questionable.
Funny, when I take those little online tests, I always end up in the libertarian quadrant or zone. Maybe that is why I find a lot of what Ron Paul says very appealing?
Dufus. It’s really great to be a radical discontent complaining about the simple animals in society, but at least have the brains to distinguish the wolves from the sheep or it looks like you are just raging against the machine because it’s cool to be going in a different direction.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Dufus. It’s really great to be a radical discontent complaining about the simple animals in society, but at least have the brains to distinguish the wolves from the sheep or it looks like you are just raging against the machine because it’s cool to be going in a different direction.[/quote]
But that is exactly what we libertarians do, we rage against the machine.
Since we do not care really care to impose our views on others we want a very small machine concentrating its powers were it is necessary.
We do not really care who the wolves and the sheep or the bright and the dumb are.
We want a machine that the cleverest wolf could not abuse.
Or the dumbest sheep, sometimes it is hard to tell the difference.
But I am sure, you, as a libertarian know that.
[quote]orion wrote:
But I am sure, you, as a libertarian know that.
[/quote]
I’ve got news for you. No one single ideology is perfect or has all the answers.
In fact, there are some concepts or elements of various ideologies that have value… and they have to compete and/or cooperate in a dynamic way as humanity discovers better ways to effectively deal with increasingly larger populations.
So, keep beating your “one solution fits all” drum while I keep laughing at your singlemindedness.